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Old 01-30-2003, 07:41 AM   #1
Grys
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Default Raid Suggestions

This should be a juicy subject!

I, myself, have a pet peeve about people polluting the raidchat with questions/comments that belong in groupchat. I think that the 95% of the raidchat should be used by the leader to convey orders. The other 5% for maybe the Main Assist.
Organization is key.
Any dialogue that's not raid essential lessens the integrity of the raidchat channel and increases the chance of other participants not seeing dialog that IS raid essential because there's so much crap dialogue flying by on raidchat that has nothing to do with 99% of the participants.
And if someone has a suggestion for the raid leader, they should send a tell, not use raidchat. If the raidleader concurs, he/she will send it down in raidchat. This streamlines the order of communication and preserves simplicity for the raid force.
How many times, during a battle, have you seen people announcing their heals/nukes/mezzes to the entire raid when 99% of the raid has more important things to watch for on raidchat. Like switching targets maybe? Or calling for an evac? Or something else that the leader needs to convey to the raid force but couldn't because it was buried under all the crap that people use raidchat for.

Also, regarding forming groups:
I'm surprised that people havn't picked up on this but, with the new PoP raid function, this seems to make alot of sense.
It's a ROYAL PAIN IN THE BUTT to sort out groups as a raid leader.
Why can't the raidleader pick a Cleric (or other essential class) for each group to be captain and send them off to pick their own group from all the people that are LFG? I understand that there are special circumstances for a small percent of the people out there (double boxing namely) but wouldn't the pros outweigh the cons? Besides, once everyone has joined a group, the raidleader can see, in the raid window, all the groups and tweak them from there.

My 2 cents.
What are yours?


Regarding raids:

1. What are some of the things that raid leaders do wrong?

2. What works well in raids that isn't widely practiced?

3. What guidelines should be laid down at the beginning of a raid?
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Old 01-30-2003, 08:17 AM   #2
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>>3. What guidelines should be laid down at the beginning of a raid?

Urinate before the raid begins unless you get yourself one of these. Make sure you have someone watching your kids. Don't cook.
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Old 01-30-2003, 08:38 AM   #3
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an easy way to alleviate some of your stress..

only the raid leader/group leaders speak in raid chat. If a member of the groups needs a buffs, they tell group, group leader is the only one to inform of the buffs they need via raid chat. Only group leaders should be /tell'ing raid leader unless otherwise specified.If someone has a suggestion, they should inform group leader, who then informs raid leader.

If everyone wants to chit-chat, have them open a seperate channel for it, but if they miss important information due to not paying attention, get your friendly wizard to punt them out.

casters spamming (other than the MA calling assist, or healers informing a 10 second heal is on the way and to patch heal if necessary) is not needed. (CH rotations should have their own channel). If an enchie is your slower, then (from a druids point of view) its nice to see when they are attempting so that the secondary healers can be ready on the heals in case the mob gets pissed, also helps if a pally is around so that they may be able to stun the mob(if stunnable) and allow the MA to retain aggro...enchies like that.

PoP raid format...some people are still getting used to the quirkiness of this function...so bear with the raid leaders in that.

so....

1. Too lenient at times. Someone cant listen, they should only be warned once or twice..then punted. (keep raids within guild to alleviate this and other issues.)

2. Pre-form groups with a sign up sheet. That way you know what you have and what you will need. Also reduces prep time to get to killing faster. Moderate the channel as needed.

3. Target MoB(s). Possible loot. Back-up plan in case things go south, and raid rules. IE no talking in raid chat, if you need buffs, tell group leader, group leader tells channel. If after a specific MoB, and said MoB has uberlootx(on a pickup raid), inform what classes will get to roll on said item before hand, and stick with loot rules. Remember, for pickup raids, thats mainly why people come...for the loot.


but the number one way to keep things sane for all parties....keep raids within guild.

just 2cents
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Old 01-30-2003, 02:47 PM   #4
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Originally posted by darue_ivywood
only the raid leader/group leaders speak in raid chat. If a member of the groups needs a buffs, they tell group, group leader is the only one to inform of the buffs they need via raid chat. Only group leaders should be /tell'ing raid leader unless otherwise specified.If someone has a suggestion, they should inform group leader, who then informs raid leader.
I would even disagree with this. If someone needs a buff they send a TELL to the person they need it from. Once again, if the group leader says, in raidchat, "Soandso needs C3" you're polluting raidchat. Saves the group leaders a headache. Unless the WHOLE GROUP needs a buff, then the group leaders send out a tell to the buffer.
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Old 01-30-2003, 04:06 PM   #5
darue_ivywood
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Most buffs at higher levels are usually group buffs anyway...
since you use KEI as an example.


As for sending individual tells...what if you have three chanters 60+, a couple shammies ..etc etc...the one you sent a tell to is LoM, the other AFK, and another...blah blah blah.

Much easier to have designated people (group leaders) who ask this rather than 30 individuals sending someone tells for buffs they may or may not be providing. After all, isnt it the group leaders responsibility to make sure those in his/her group are 'buffed and ready' ?

Group leaders and raid leader are only ones allowed to spam chat like such...think of it as chain of command. As for poluting channel...think about it....only 5 groups, one of which the raid leader is also the group leader..that leaves 4 others who would be in the channel at any given time. Really not that bad compared to what it could be, and also allows everyone to see who is who type thing, where otherwise would be impossible if it were taken to /tells.


Agree or not, this is how we do raids..and it works well.


But this is all done in guild...so many problems are alleviated before they even start. (ie pickup crap)
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Old 01-30-2003, 09:30 PM   #6
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Originally posted by darue_ivywood
As for sending individual tells...what if you have three chanters 60+, a couple shammies ..etc etc...the one you sent a tell to is LoM, the other AFK, and another...blah blah blah.
I disagree.
Perhaps this may happen once or twice. But when group leaders, in raidchat, say "Soandso needs haste" or "Soandso needs Clarity" it STILL HAS NO BEARING ON 99% OF THE RAID FORCE. This makes for that much more irrelevant crap that participants have to dig through when they watch raidchat go by.
Besides, after a group leader says "Soand so needs..." then the raidleader has to pick someone to cast it and broadcast something along the lines of "Blanketyblank, please cast C3/Haste/Buffs on Soandso". Isn't that alot like micromanaging? It also involves 1 or 2 additional people in something that should be between 2 people. Raids should be kept as simple as possible. And if, like you said, someone was out of mana, they would respond to the raidleader, in raidchat, and the raidleader would then have to pick someone else to cast C3/SoW/Buffs on Soandso.

Also, during meditation/ressurection breaks, the raidleader should tell the group how long the raidforce will be there for. This lets people know how much time that they have to go pee/getfood/feeddog without leaving the door open for people to go AFK for 10-15 minutes just because they "said" they were going.

And I wouldn't go so far as to say that ONLY the raidleader and groupleaders could use raidchat, but I would ask all participants NOT to have raidchat as their default channel when the raid began.

Speaking of group leaders. What role do they play? I think EVERY raid that I've been on (post PoP) has had group leaders doing nothing except the role of inviters/disbanders. What additional duties should a group leader play in a raid? I've been a group leader in many raids which meant basically nothing excapt that maybe I could have looted (had the raidleader turned that feature on).
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Last edited by Grys; 01-30-2003 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 01-31-2003, 07:28 AM   #7
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Then Disagree..I personally dont care..YOu asked, so i said how we do things..dont like it? Oh well /shrug


BTW..Trolls are more prominently found in the rants and flames area of the board. Im sure you would get the response you are looking for...'cept you may need to toss a few choice words in though.

enjoy.




---edit---

btw..keep sending /tells to your raid leader. They LOVE that sort of thing.
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Old 01-31-2003, 10:47 AM   #8
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I sent feedback on the raid window. Doubt it will happen, but I suggested that they make the groups drag and drop for the raid leader. It sure makes it a lot easier that way.
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Old 01-31-2003, 11:41 AM   #9
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I would love that feature Bumbleroot. Next time I log in I'm seconding that idea. Would make my job much easier.
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Old 01-31-2003, 05:54 PM   #10
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Default Drag & Drop?

Originally posted by bumbleroot
I sent feedback on the raid window. Doubt it will happen, but I suggested that they make the groups drag and drop for the raid leader. It sure makes it a lot easier that way.
Pardon me. I'm a moron. What is "drag & drop"?
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Old 02-01-2003, 01:59 PM   #11
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Basically, that sort of feature would allow the raid leader to shuffle groups around like you would sort files into folders in windows- just dragging PersonA and putting them into Group1, PersonB into G2, etc...

Rather than inviting people to lead groups in your raid, who then have to invite others into their groups, which is sort of a pain for the raid leader.
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Old 02-01-2003, 08:32 PM   #12
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Default Wow

That would rock.

It would make too much sense to put out on a patch. SOE could make so much more money putting it out on an expansion so they could suck some more cash out of us. Who knows, mebbe Legacy will have it.
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