Two Towers... - Page 2 - Erollisi Marr

Ziktiny · 12-19-2002, 02:34 PM

I watched the movie yesterday. I really enjoyed it. I haven't read the books in about 20 years, so my memory is a bit rusty. The issues I had with it were:[list=1] 1. Gollum/Smeagol seemed to be be set up as a friendly little guy with a split personality ala good vs. evil. I remember him being totally corrupted by the ring, planning murder the entire time with only his cowardice holding him back in most instances.

2. Even I remembered enough to know the little side trip to Gondor didn't happen in the book. Personally I felt it was disruptive to the storyline, but we'll see next year.[/list=1]
Other than those and a couple of others too esoteric to go into, I thought that PJ brought a fantastic movie to the screen. It was well paced and ended better than the first. I am looking forward to seeing the third next year.

Erynlor · 12-19-2002, 02:56 PM

theo,

do you kiss your mother with that tongue?

(for all you pervs out there....that means on the cheek)

(sheeees...i shoulda known...the FACIAL cheek!)

erynlor

resilak · 12-19-2002, 02:58 PM

was a bad A$$ movie hehe i watched it 2xs BIG J.R.R tolk fan here

Flub Man · 12-19-2002, 04:10 PM

Some questions for you:

How much money did your last film make?

Anyone ever give you hundreds of millions of dollars to make a movie?

And remember, it could have been alot worse.

Edited for spelling errors.

Iwka · 12-19-2002, 06:33 PM

great so since I didn't make a movie for the big screen my opinion doesn't count, same with yours, and everyone's here. Of course, the anonymity of these handles, who knows maybe one of us has.

anyhow, characterization was horrid, but there were good points. I myself, hated it totally and completely the first time i saw it, second time I saw it later that night I knew what to expect and was braced for it, so I was able to find what I liked in it. So now I don't hate it, but I cringed whenever I saw Faramir and shut my eyes tight until it passed.

No I don't expect line for line from the book. But I do expect the characters to be portrayed well (Faramir, Theoden, Treebeard weren't). Sorry , I know, shouldn't put an opinion forth but what are you gonna do.

Flub Man · 12-19-2002, 08:21 PM

Sorry so sensitive. It was meant to a little humorous. (Why do I feel like Trent Lott)

I wasn't trying to belittle anyone nor their opinion. I was simply trying to put it into a perspective.

It has/had to be hard to take a book people love and try to adapt it to the big screen. Having read the books several times I thought they did a good job. Yes, there are some inaccuracies but, as I said, it could have been alot worse and anything on the scale of LoTR will have them.

Xiqz · 12-19-2002, 08:24 PM

Saw The Two Towers opening day. ~rocked. that is all.

i felt that Gollum stole too much air-time so to speak. Not so annoying as say..jarjar binks..but a little irritating none the less.

As far as cohesion with the books..well folks you just cant make complicated Epics into movies easily, Peter Jackson and crew have done a tremendous job that only enriches Tolkien's world.
it could have been...well two words- battlefield earth. (i am the ONLY person who actually likes that movie

but for fans of the book it smacks of utter nonsense-)

By the way Ignore feature on this board rocks

Every thread i have a look into is free of ...well you know.

Aamrie · 12-19-2002, 09:16 PM

Overall it was a decent movie..was disappointed on a few of the changes...
The most notable change to me was when Aragorn met the Riders..
When he gave his "elendil! I am Aragorn, son of Arathorn" speech...to me that was his defining moment...when he moved forward and knew who he really was..

Would have liked more dialogue with the Ents...but can understand that was alot of text to squeeze into three hours..

RacterVargun · 12-19-2002, 11:04 PM

Saw the movie today, loved it. The battle scenes were incredible. The amount of detail in every scene was extraordinary, such as when the ladders come out, look for the falling orcs. Funniest things ever. Additionally, I loved how he portrayed the ent battle upon Isengard. Watching them kick around and mash orcs together was the greatest thing ever.

And while it seems the nit pickers aren't too popular right about now, there were two things that I really didn't like that he changed. The rest of the afore mentioned points were noticeable, but weren't story changing. However:
Gandalf's transition to Gandalf the White. I haven't read the book in a while, but didn't he become white after some sort of eagle-man picked him up and he returned to like the Wizardry guild or something? I definetly don't remember the "I died, came back alive and I'm white and super powerful!" thing the movie presented, seemed kind of lame.
Cowardly natures in characters. As others have said, Frodo was alot more respectable in the book, and in the movie it almost seemed like they downplayed him as being weak physically and mentally. And the king seemed weak, in the book Tolkien made it appear as if with his newfound vigor he was a great king that everyone respected. In the movie, I got the impression he was an indecisive bastard.

Overall, great movie. And all in all, while some things were changed, I'm incredibly impressed with the amount they have followed the book so far. Not many movies accurately reflect the books their modelled after, and this one has with flying colors.

Arnwolf Magnuson · 12-20-2002, 07:15 AM

In defense of Frodo...

In the books, Frodo's struggle with the ring is very much internal. In his own mind he battles for control of himself against the powers of the ring.

Can you imagine how hard that is to translate into a movie? Most people that aren't that familiar with the books would just think he was walking around constipated all the time.

I think Peter Jackson did a good job of making the struggle with the Ring a very noticeable fight.

As for other details, I think the movie translation was excellent and I'm not passing any judgements until I see Return of the King.

The books alude to the Return of the King starting in book one. I think Peter Jackson is just trying hard to move things around a bit to make a clear separation of the three movies.

Fellowship
Two Towers
Return of the King

Yes they are all part of the same story, but Peter Jackson seems to have clearly moved some elements around to keep the focus of each movie clearly on it's pivotal part of the story.

Arnwolf Magnuson

BufferofNewbies · 12-20-2002, 07:18 AM

Even you guys who hated the movie have to admit you smiled when the Eant that was on fire stuck his head in the oncomeing water...

I actually liked the changes to Gollum, although I wasnt too pleased with the other changes from the book. But the animations themselves at least appeased me into submission.

It was a good movie.

Barrymore Yorke · 12-20-2002, 07:41 AM

Racter:

Nope, Gandalf came back pretty much as presented in the film. In the book he's even more evasive and ditzy for a little bit, but that was pretty much as it happened.

I'm glad no one has mentioned it here, but on other boards I've seen people bitching that the orcs talk with Cockney accents when they're discussing what to do with Pippin and Merry.

IT'S . . . IN . . . THE . . . BOOK . . . THAT . . . WAY!!!! Arghhh!

Heh.

Langree · 12-20-2002, 08:22 AM

So the English are direct descendants of Orcs?

Aamrie · 12-20-2002, 09:26 AM

Never said I hated it..just thought a few key pieces was missing..

Overall it was a good movie..still love the ents...especially the way they was smashing the orcs.....

Barrymore Yorke · 12-20-2002, 01:14 PM

Langree: Just the Cockney, apparently.

Interestingly enough, the trolls that are turned into stone in THE HOBBIT also speak with Cockney accents. I believe this represents a sadly classist viewpoint of Tolkien's, probably shared by many middle- and upper-class Brits of his era . . . that they believed the Cockney tended to be brutes and thieves.

Kemora · 12-20-2002, 07:21 PM

The soundtrack is really good too.. way better then fotr's imho (and i thought fotr's was good ;p)

Blytzz · 12-20-2002, 07:23 PM

http://www.attrition.org/gallery/com...orum/nerds.jpg

Chiteng · 12-20-2002, 11:24 PM

I have been reviewing Jacksons version and I would just like to say that I am actually quite impressed with Sean Bean's portrayal
of Boromir. I think he deserves some type of award. I also think he got short shift in the fight sequences. From my reading of the books he was just as capable as Aragorn, just that he was doomed.

Martigan · 12-21-2002, 03:35 PM

Just saw it. I liked it quite a bit, but it didn't have the impact on me like the first one.

It's like when Kunark first came out...the expansion was great...but there was no "newness" to it.

I may see it again at the theater...I may not. After I saw the first one, I wasnted to see it again right away at the theater.

Erynlor · 12-22-2002, 04:15 PM

/agree arnwolf

Fori Shadowmoon · 12-22-2002, 06:46 PM

Would have liked more dialogue with the Ents...but can understand that was alot of text to squeeze into three hours..

Ohh goodness didnt they talk slow enough already??

Kerryn · 12-23-2002, 03:54 AM

As a citizen of the country of England I am happy to consider the fact that the shandy drinking southerners from London could quite possibly be the direct desendants of an orc horde.

No offense taken here.

My girlfriend hasn't read the books. To her Frodo comes across as weak and to be honest even I can see it. That's Jacksons main mistake.

In the book his weakness is fleshed out with the internal conflict with the ring but with that removed from the films nothing is left but a small scared hobbit who gets lost and stabbed too many times.

The other thing I don't understand is that in FotR Boromir's strength is played down "to make the films more believable". Because of that Bormir only takes 3 arrows when in the book he took dozens. Fair play. Good move.

Yet at Helm's Deep Aragorn and Gimli take on hundreds of orcs on the causeway. What suddenly happened to "making the films more believable" there?

Coolest part of the movie: Legolas vaulting underneath Gimlis horse and onto it's back in one move.

Silliest part of the movie: The olympic runner with the torch.

FotR rating : 9/10
TT Rating : 9/10

Arynduil · 12-23-2002, 09:11 AM

Any others that aren't jumping out at me right now?

Theo

I have to agree with Theo basically on all points. The only thing I have a real issue with is the character assasination of Faramir. It added zero to the movie except time, and really destroys the nobility of, well, a noble character.

All of this thru the IMO-scope of course.

Arnwolf Magnuson · 12-23-2002, 09:59 AM

I still think you guys shouldn't pass judgement on Faramir until the Return of the King is out.

The way the movie's have set him up, he's done the right thing so far. He had "no reason" to let the hobbits go when he first found them. As soon as he was provided even an inkling of enough information to begin to understand...he risked his own life and freedom to see them return to their quest.

Not to mention the fact, he refused the Ring of Power when he had every ability to take it...something only Aragorn, Galadriel and Gandalf have been able to do.

Don't sell Peter Jackson or Faramir short...just wait until Return of the King is out. Then you can make an informed decision.

Arnwolf

Birren · 12-23-2002, 01:08 PM

saw it last night. The thing that bothered me the most was Frodo's weakness.

Another thing that bothered me was the elves at helms deep. 1 they shouldnt be there. 2 if they are there, they should fight a whole hell of alot better. They are awesome archers, but my understanding was that they were no slackers with a blade either. Basically the orcs tore them up np.

I did enjoy the movie alot and plan to see it again tho.

12-19-2002, 02:34 PM	#26
Ziktiny Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 188	I watched the movie yesterday. I really enjoyed it. I haven't read the books in about 20 years, so my memory is a bit rusty. The issues I had with it were:[list=1] 1. Gollum/Smeagol seemed to be be set up as a friendly little guy with a split personality ala good vs. evil. I remember him being totally corrupted by the ring, planning murder the entire time with only his cowardice holding him back in most instances. 2. Even I remembered enough to know the little side trip to Gondor didn't happen in the book. Personally I felt it was disruptive to the storyline, but we'll see next year.[/list=1] Other than those and a couple of others too esoteric to go into, I thought that PJ brought a fantastic movie to the screen. It was well paced and ended better than the first. I am looking forward to seeing the third next year. __________________ Ziktiny Vaeelaria Finally retired

12-19-2002, 02:56 PM	#27
Erynlor Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 41	bleh theo, do you kiss your mother with that tongue? (for all you pervs out there....that means on the cheek) (sheeees...i shoulda known...the FACIAL cheek!) erynlor

12-19-2002, 02:58 PM	#28
resilak Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: MO Posts: 13	was a bad A$$ movie hehe i watched it 2xs BIG J.R.R tolk fan here __________________ Resilak Lvl 51 sk The rotting overlord. <a href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html? num=608877">Drackgon Dragonslayer</a> lvl 56 shm

12-19-2002, 04:10 PM	#29
Flub Man Here's to you liberals!!! Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Geaux Tigers Posts: 3,327	TO ALL YOU NIT PICKERS OUT THERE Some questions for you: How much money did your last film make? Anyone ever give you hundreds of millions of dollars to make a movie? And remember, it could have been alot worse. Edited for spelling errors. __________________ Dirty Ol' Flub <retired> My Sports Blog "Starkville is the Indian word for Trailer Park." ~ Skip Bertman 'I was just wrong. Flub you are correct.' ~bumble

12-19-2002, 06:33 PM	#30
Iwka Supporter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Buffalo Posts: 491	great so since I didn't make a movie for the big screen my opinion doesn't count, same with yours, and everyone's here. Of course, the anonymity of these handles, who knows maybe one of us has. anyhow, characterization was horrid, but there were good points. I myself, hated it totally and completely the first time i saw it, second time I saw it later that night I knew what to expect and was braced for it, so I was able to find what I liked in it. So now I don't hate it, but I cringed whenever I saw Faramir and shut my eyes tight until it passed. No I don't expect line for line from the book. But I do expect the characters to be portrayed well (Faramir, Theoden, Treebeard weren't). Sorry , I know, shouldn't put an opinion forth but what are you gonna do. __________________ Iwka Tamuril - 64 Epic Mage - Erollisi Marr Retired

12-19-2002, 08:21 PM	#31
Flub Man Here's to you liberals!!! Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Geaux Tigers Posts: 3,327	Sorry so sensitive. It was meant to a little humorous. (Why do I feel like Trent Lott) I wasn't trying to belittle anyone nor their opinion. I was simply trying to put it into a perspective. It has/had to be hard to take a book people love and try to adapt it to the big screen. Having read the books several times I thought they did a good job. Yes, there are some inaccuracies but, as I said, it could have been alot worse and anything on the scale of LoTR will have them. __________________ Dirty Ol' Flub <retired> My Sports Blog "Starkville is the Indian word for Trailer Park." ~ Skip Bertman 'I was just wrong. Flub you are correct.' ~bumble

12-19-2002, 08:24 PM	#32
Xiqz Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 202	Saw The Two Towers opening day. ~rocked. that is all. i felt that Gollum stole too much air-time so to speak. Not so annoying as say..jarjar binks..but a little irritating none the less. As far as cohesion with the books..well folks you just cant make complicated Epics into movies easily, Peter Jackson and crew have done a tremendous job that only enriches Tolkien's world. it could have been...well two words- battlefield earth. (i am the ONLY person who actually likes that movie but for fans of the book it smacks of utter nonsense-) By the way Ignore feature on this board rocks Every thread i have a look into is free of ...well you know. __________________ -Xiqz Troll Dread Lord innoruuk's enforcer <retired> my pansy crap "...i fingered it out..." -Kogur tha Ogre Annastasya 85 High Priestess Servant of Norrath MYSPACE

12-19-2002, 09:16 PM	#33
Aamrie Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: somewhere not quite close Posts: 616	just my 2 cps Overall it was a decent movie..was disappointed on a few of the changes... The most notable change to me was when Aragorn met the Riders.. When he gave his "elendil! I am Aragorn, son of Arathorn" speech...to me that was his defining moment...when he moved forward and knew who he really was.. Would have liked more dialogue with the Ents...but can understand that was alot of text to squeeze into three hours.. __________________ ~~~The icing on the cake quote~~~~~~~~~~ Jack Thompson: Yes, put down the controller and get a life. Video gaming is an escapist activity and you’re being exploited by these companies. It’s not healthy; I worry about someone who would play Grand Theft Auto for ten hours a day. It’s a masturbatory activity, and it would be better if people put down the controller and went outside.

12-19-2002, 11:04 PM	#34
RacterVargun Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 16	Whee! Saw the movie today, loved it. The battle scenes were incredible. The amount of detail in every scene was extraordinary, such as when the ladders come out, look for the falling orcs. Funniest things ever. Additionally, I loved how he portrayed the ent battle upon Isengard. Watching them kick around and mash orcs together was the greatest thing ever. And while it seems the nit pickers aren't too popular right about now, there were two things that I really didn't like that he changed. The rest of the afore mentioned points were noticeable, but weren't story changing. However: Gandalf's transition to Gandalf the White. I haven't read the book in a while, but didn't he become white after some sort of eagle-man picked him up and he returned to like the Wizardry guild or something? I definetly don't remember the "I died, came back alive and I'm white and super powerful!" thing the movie presented, seemed kind of lame. Cowardly natures in characters. As others have said, Frodo was alot more respectable in the book, and in the movie it almost seemed like they downplayed him as being weak physically and mentally. And the king seemed weak, in the book Tolkien made it appear as if with his newfound vigor he was a great king that everyone respected. In the movie, I got the impression he was an indecisive bastard. Overall, great movie. And all in all, while some things were changed, I'm incredibly impressed with the amount they have followed the book so far. Not many movies accurately reflect the books their modelled after, and this one has with flying colors. __________________ Racter Vargun The Fat (TM)

12-20-2002, 07:15 AM	#35
Arnwolf Magnuson Iron Chef Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 233	In defense of Frodo... In the books, Frodo's struggle with the ring is very much internal. In his own mind he battles for control of himself against the powers of the ring. Can you imagine how hard that is to translate into a movie? Most people that aren't that familiar with the books would just think he was walking around constipated all the time. I think Peter Jackson did a good job of making the struggle with the Ring a very noticeable fight. As for other details, I think the movie translation was excellent and I'm not passing any judgements until I see Return of the King. The books alude to the Return of the King starting in book one. I think Peter Jackson is just trying hard to move things around a bit to make a clear separation of the three movies. Fellowship Two Towers Return of the King Yes they are all part of the same story, but Peter Jackson seems to have clearly moved some elements around to keep the focus of each movie clearly on it's pivotal part of the story. Arnwolf Magnuson

12-20-2002, 07:18 AM	#36
BufferofNewbies Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 11	Even you guys who hated the movie have to admit you smiled when the Eant that was on fire stuck his head in the oncomeing water... I actually liked the changes to Gollum, although I wasnt too pleased with the other changes from the book. But the animations themselves at least appeased me into submission. It was a good movie. __________________ Alhbie Eurhuckleberry Erollisi Marr server

12-20-2002, 07:41 AM	#37
Barrymore Yorke Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 43	Racter: Nope, Gandalf came back pretty much as presented in the film. In the book he's even more evasive and ditzy for a little bit, but that was pretty much as it happened. I'm glad no one has mentioned it here, but on other boards I've seen people bitching that the orcs talk with Cockney accents when they're discussing what to do with Pippin and Merry. IT'S . . . IN . . . THE . . . BOOK . . . THAT . . . WAY!!!! Arghhh! Heh.

12-20-2002, 08:22 AM	#38
Langree Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Misery Posts: 593	So the English are direct descendants of Orcs?

12-20-2002, 09:26 AM	#39
Aamrie Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: somewhere not quite close Posts: 616	Never said I hated it..just thought a few key pieces was missing.. Overall it was a good movie..still love the ents...especially the way they was smashing the orcs..... __________________ ~~~The icing on the cake quote~~~~~~~~~~ Jack Thompson: Yes, put down the controller and get a life. Video gaming is an escapist activity and you’re being exploited by these companies. It’s not healthy; I worry about someone who would play Grand Theft Auto for ten hours a day. It’s a masturbatory activity, and it would be better if people put down the controller and went outside.

12-20-2002, 01:14 PM	#40
Barrymore Yorke Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 43	Langree: Just the Cockney, apparently. Interestingly enough, the trolls that are turned into stone in THE HOBBIT also speak with Cockney accents. I believe this represents a sadly classist viewpoint of Tolkien's, probably shared by many middle- and upper-class Brits of his era . . . that they believed the Cockney tended to be brutes and thieves.

12-20-2002, 07:21 PM	#41
Kemora Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 488	The soundtrack is really good too.. way better then fotr's imho (and i thought fotr's was good ;p) __________________ Kemortia Kementari Dread Lord, Ascendence AIM: Kemorakementari

12-20-2002, 07:23 PM	#42
Blytzz Banned User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 67	http://www.attrition.org/gallery/com...orum/nerds.jpg

12-20-2002, 11:24 PM	#43
Chiteng Supporter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Earth Posts: 10,240	re: FOTR I have been reviewing Jacksons version and I would just like to say that I am actually quite impressed with Sean Bean's portrayal of Boromir. I think he deserves some type of award. I also think he got short shift in the fight sequences. From my reading of the books he was just as capable as Aragorn, just that he was doomed. __________________ “It is clear that the individual who persecutes a man, his brother, because he is not of the same opinion, is a monster.” Voltaire 'For those with faith, no proof is needed. For those without faith, no proof is enough' French Priest

12-21-2002, 03:35 PM	#44
Martigan Supporter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: San Juan Bautista, CA Posts: 4,462	Just saw it. I liked it quite a bit, but it didn't have the impact on me like the first one. It's like when Kunark first came out...the expansion was great...but there was no "newness" to it. I may see it again at the theater...I may not. After I saw the first one, I wasnted to see it again right away at the theater.

12-22-2002, 04:15 PM	#45
Erynlor Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 41	ditto /agree arnwolf

12-22-2002, 06:46 PM	#46
Fori Shadowmoon Cold Hard Bitch... Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Like Ohio somewhere Posts: 131	Would have liked more dialogue with the Ents...but can understand that was alot of text to squeeze into three hours.. Ohh goodness didnt they talk slow enough already?? __________________ Fori Shadowmoon ~Can't stop the spirits when they need you this life is more than just a read thru~ Enslaving Trolls since 1999 retired

12-23-2002, 03:54 AM	#47
Kerryn Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Keren, Naboo Posts: 1,030	As a citizen of the country of England I am happy to consider the fact that the shandy drinking southerners from London could quite possibly be the direct desendants of an orc horde. No offense taken here. My girlfriend hasn't read the books. To her Frodo comes across as weak and to be honest even I can see it. That's Jacksons main mistake. In the book his weakness is fleshed out with the internal conflict with the ring but with that removed from the films nothing is left but a small scared hobbit who gets lost and stabbed too many times. The other thing I don't understand is that in FotR Boromir's strength is played down "to make the films more believable". Because of that Bormir only takes 3 arrows when in the book he took dozens. Fair play. Good move. Yet at Helm's Deep Aragorn and Gimli take on hundreds of orcs on the causeway. What suddenly happened to "making the films more believable" there? Coolest part of the movie: Legolas vaulting underneath Gimlis horse and onto it's back in one move. Silliest part of the movie: The olympic runner with the torch. FotR rating : 9/10 TT Rating : 9/10

12-23-2002, 09:11 AM	#48
Arynduil Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Townsend, MA (50 feet from the Arctic Circle) Posts: 69	Poor Faramir Any others that aren't jumping out at me right now? Theo I have to agree with Theo basically on all points. The only thing I have a real issue with is the character assasination of Faramir. It added zero to the movie except time, and really destroys the nobility of, well, a noble character. All of this thru the IMO-scope of course. __________________ Hunter Arynduil Greyleaf, Forest Stalker Eye of Eternity "Now there's no more Oak oppression, for they passed a noble law. And the Trees are all kept equal, by hatchet, axe, and saw..."

12-23-2002, 09:59 AM	#49
Arnwolf Magnuson Iron Chef Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 233	I still think you guys shouldn't pass judgement on Faramir until the Return of the King is out. The way the movie's have set him up, he's done the right thing so far. He had "no reason" to let the hobbits go when he first found them. As soon as he was provided even an inkling of enough information to begin to understand...he risked his own life and freedom to see them return to their quest. Not to mention the fact, he refused the Ring of Power when he had every ability to take it...something only Aragorn, Galadriel and Gandalf have been able to do. Don't sell Peter Jackson or Faramir short...just wait until Return of the King is out. Then you can make an informed decision. Arnwolf

12-23-2002, 01:08 PM	#50
Birren Banned User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 27	saw it last night. The thing that bothered me the most was Frodo's weakness. Another thing that bothered me was the elves at helms deep. 1 they shouldnt be there. 2 if they are there, they should fight a whole hell of alot better. They are awesome archers, but my understanding was that they were no slackers with a blade either. Basically the orcs tore them up np. I did enjoy the movie alot and plan to see it again tho.

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