confused? - Erollisi Marr

kava stoneforge · 11-23-2002, 01:38 PM

This is probably nothin new.....and I know alot of you arent tooo into Roleplayin but you picked your player/class for a reason and probably your deity too. So dont you wonder why Sony?Verant EQ dummies dont follow their own rules? For instance I play a paladin so why would they make a drop off of one of the greatest paladins ( Mith Marr) paladin equipable? You have to kill a Paladin to get a paladin item. Makes no sense to me. Its with alot of other classes as well. what do you think of this?

Camien Ta`Mire · 11-23-2002, 01:42 PM

Remember the Froglok in UGuk who drops Ghoulbane? He's a paladin too, ya know. It's not a new thing, and welcome to Verant's "interesting" way of thinking. By the way, this hasn't been a "role playing" game since like, 5 days after release :P

kava stoneforge · 11-23-2002, 01:49 PM

why play? then what is this? even run and shoot games have a storyline..have a purpose? and for the most part stick to it? I guess maybe they should insert penalties for going against your Race/Class/deity? something or they might as well introduce machine guns in the next patch and you just run around shooting everything that moves and doesnt move

Camien Ta`Mire · 11-23-2002, 01:55 PM

This is a "get a group, kill shit, chat with friends" game. Oh yeah, and "raid til you die of boredom from raiding" too. No role playing in that~

kava stoneforge · 11-23-2002, 02:01 PM

Why does one pick a race?class? deity then? isnt that for roleplayin?Why are there quests arent those for roleplayin?

CrypteXY · 11-23-2002, 02:19 PM

Well...Mith Marr is a paladin, no? So...shouldnt he use paladin gear? By killing him, he should also drop it, no?

kava stoneforge · 11-23-2002, 02:30 PM

Wouldnt killing another paladin make you a shadowknight? Why would one retain the paladin qualities if you kill someone who is aligned with you or your values? I guess I'm the only one who sees a problem in killin one who your are to protect or stand for....its like a Tunare wood elf Ranger would go and kill Tunare herself cause she has a great bow as loot? Why would you retain your skills as a ranger ? your gifts that she gave you if you just killed her? betrayed her?

The Earth Keeper · 11-23-2002, 02:51 PM

I think its cause Tunare likes abusive relationships.

As for RP in EQ 3 years and counting for CBA . We are a good aligned roleplaying guild.

Crom

Ssetti · 11-23-2002, 03:16 PM

I agree with Crypte, obviously Paladin mobs are going to have Paladin equipment - for their own use. From a roleplay standpoint it's YOU that's making a nonsense of the game, because you're a paladin going out to kill other paladins.

11-23-2002, 04:41 PM

I agree with Sseti, your question "why would they make a drop off of one of the greatest paladins ( Mith Marr) paladin equipable?" is kinda funny. The great paladin will use great paladin gear, makes perfect sense to me. Now, if you are roll playing a paladin, yes, you should not go kill Mith Marr. But I'm pretty sure some people play EQ and have never killed Mith Marr, it can happen you know.

I remember this complaint back when Ghoulbane was a hot new thing. So they added stuff like FA and then FD to make more sense. If you mean to say that there should be more good Paladin gear that you get as a reward from some good guy after killing big evil things, i agree.

kava stoneforge · 11-23-2002, 06:21 PM

I never said I go out and kill Mith Marr or anything .....im just saying why make items which require you to kill an NPC which by doing so is obviously the opposite of what your character is suppose to be about . It makes more sense for a pally to go and kill an evil npc

Kerryn · 11-23-2002, 06:40 PM

Minor correction. Mithaniel Marr isn't a Paladin. He's a god. Thats it. There is no "Yes but he's a paladin and a god", he's just a god, no ifs or buts. His followers may become paladins by using his powers but that doesn't make him one. Paladins may wish to act like Mithaniel but thats as far as it goes.

It's very wrong that someone can go up to their god, kill him, and then heal after the fight with the power he gave them.

Lanson & Binuru · 11-23-2002, 07:25 PM

From the Everquest Web Site :

Mithaniel Marr, the Truthbringer, governs the Plane of Valor. Mithaniel is the ultimate paladin who wears a full suit of shining silver plate armor and wields a glowing longsword. Mithaniel Marr, who owes his existence to Tarew Marr, leader of the Triumvirate of Water, is allied with Erollisi Marr and Karana. He counts Innoruuk, Cazic-Thule, and Bertoxxulous among his enemies. He has a friendly rivalry with Solusek Ro.

Yes, Mithaniel is a god, but is one described as a Paladin. There is no metaphor here, "Mithaniel IS" is pretty blatant, hehe.

I do agree, however. It is very wrong to be able to kill the one who gave you your powers to begin with.

Maeri · 11-24-2002, 04:54 PM

Seems perfectly reasonable a worshipper of Innoruuk might set out to kill their deity as the ultimate expression of hatred. I don't see why there should always be perfect harmony between the various "good-aligned" gods. A paladin of Tunare could have a perfectly good reason to kill Mith Marr. It may make roleplaying sense for a paladin of Mithaniel to lose his powers if he slays his god, but it would be very unreasonable for game balance. Swapping classes might be an interesting idea (to warrior or SK), but that is completely unsupported by the game engine (what do you do with all the Pal only gear?). Finally, consider the idea that this cannot be the true form of Mithaniel Marr, since it reappears after some time, but merely some kind of avatar. Perhaps it can be seen as a test of some kind.

As for the loot. As others have stated, of course a paladin will be using great pal only gear. It boggles me that much of the loot from Lcea Katta, who is supposed to be a bard, isn't usable by bards.

Skerry · 11-25-2002, 09:49 AM

This game is a roleplaying game if you make it one. OR it is a hack em up waste a lot of time if you make it one. OR it is a mix of both, if you make it one.

I am not a roleplayer, however even I can see how it can be a roleplaying game should you choose to play it that way.

As for Mith, well .. being a pally he would have pally gear. He isn'g going to drop the Phat Lewt of Druid Uberness now is he? As for the best piece? Well, if you are NOT a roleplayer, he is just another mob waiting to be downed. If you are a TRUE roleplayer you would not attend such a raid, in fact you would try to convince those aruond you NOT to kill the god, either that or you would chastise them for even THINKING about it.

Perhaps, if he was killed you would then take a day or 2 off to mourn the temporary loss of your god waiting for him return to his mortal form. As for getting the loot. . well that is up to you to figure out how and why and when. I can only go so far.

Evelle · 11-25-2002, 04:20 PM

As a god they are clearly not mortal or subject to mortal rules. Therefore by besting one in combat you haven't killed him really. Since this is EQ we all know he is going to spawn again in 3, 5, 7 days whatever.

At any rate I would think that any warrior type god wouldn't be insulted by allowing a follower to try to best them in combat. Perhaps the gods power is diminished for a short period of time. IE the time it takes for them to respawn.

Blah enough of the roleplay talk.

Verno Soulkeeper · 11-26-2002, 02:50 AM

Paladins are Good. End of story.
Anyone roleplaying a Paladin should not be killing Mith Marr, Tunare or any other Good god, regardless of wether they are their own deity or not.

Of course many folks don't worry about roleplaying at all. Some suspend it for just long enough to get the bit of loot they want. Fair enough I say; it's a game. Play it how you enjoy playing it (without causing grief for others of course).

In the Ghoubane situation, any Paladin willing to kill a fellow Paladin for his weapon, got the Ghoubane.
Those who refused to take such dark action were rewarded for their compassion with a quest to obtain the same item.
I certainly quested for mine.
Perhaps the same will become true of whatever items Mithaniel Marr carries.
Though perhaps not. Could one really expect to wield the same weapon as his god?!? I would expect to be unable to even lift it!

Verno Soulkeeper.
Paladin of Marr for 46 seasons.

Krrak · 11-26-2002, 03:17 AM

Another way to think of this - from a role-playing point of view:

Is that the "God" Mith Marr is not really the god, but an avatar sent to test those who he would one day accept into his personal service. What greater test than to see if the one who would join him would be willing to prove his worth in battle. If you are successful, you do not really kill the avatar, but the avatar concede's the battle and hands out rewards (loot) to those who were there, with them deciding how to split said rewards.

After all what mortal or group of mortals could really defeat a god.

Sadly, Everquest is not a role-playing game or even a questing game. While both aspects can certainly be done, most will realize that EverQuest should have been called either EverCamp or EverKill... but the game is a wonderful catharsis and fun to boot.

my 2 coppers

Katty · 11-26-2002, 03:19 AM

Katty was created cause i became kos in my hometown with Cattie. needed a mule.
So i wanted the best price and stuff i could get. so i made a Enchanter with maxed Cha and worshipping Innoruuk.

i then started playing her a little, and had a blast. And so now she is the one i prefer to play.

I guess her having a diety as a enchanter could be classed as roleplayish. Since most enchanters prefer to not have one due to faction issues with illusions.

For me however it was purely to gain better faction in neriak as a mule.

Everquest it sadly not built for real roleplaying. As the engine does not really allow for that.
the only roleplaying occuring, is the Role you take on while playing your char. Weather your being yourself, or acting.

If you want a game that allows for real hardcore roleplaying, i suggest looking into Neverwinter Night. That game has some awesome potential for roleplay.

11-23-2002, 01:38 PM	#1
kava stoneforge Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Kaladim Posts: 16	confused? This is probably nothin new.....and I know alot of you arent tooo into Roleplayin but you picked your player/class for a reason and probably your deity too. So dont you wonder why Sony?Verant EQ dummies dont follow their own rules? For instance I play a paladin so why would they make a drop off of one of the greatest paladins ( Mith Marr) paladin equipable? You have to kill a Paladin to get a paladin item. Makes no sense to me. Its with alot of other classes as well. what do you think of this?

11-23-2002, 01:42 PM	#2
Camien Ta`Mire Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Reidsville, GA Posts: 879	Remember the Froglok in UGuk who drops Ghoulbane? He's a paladin too, ya know. It's not a new thing, and welcome to Verant's "interesting" way of thinking. By the way, this hasn't been a "role playing" game since like, 5 days after release :P __________________ High Priest Camien Ta`Mire Nightblade Mukal Ta`Mire Grand Occultist Dekayd Ta`Mire Valiant Milander Truewield Ne Cede Malice Previously: GreyLords, Knights of Virtue, Radiant Eclipse/Caelestis Ignis (Insert witty saying here.)

11-23-2002, 01:55 PM	#4
Camien Ta`Mire Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Reidsville, GA Posts: 879	This is a "get a group, kill shit, chat with friends" game. Oh yeah, and "raid til you die of boredom from raiding" too. No role playing in that~ __________________ High Priest Camien Ta`Mire Nightblade Mukal Ta`Mire Grand Occultist Dekayd Ta`Mire Valiant Milander Truewield Ne Cede Malice Previously: GreyLords, Knights of Virtue, Radiant Eclipse/Caelestis Ignis (Insert witty saying here.)

11-23-2002, 07:25 PM	#13
Lanson & Binuru Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Cape Canaveral, FL Posts: 219	From the Everquest Web Site : Mithaniel Marr, the Truthbringer, governs the Plane of Valor. Mithaniel is the ultimate paladin who wears a full suit of shining silver plate armor and wields a glowing longsword. Mithaniel Marr, who owes his existence to Tarew Marr, leader of the Triumvirate of Water, is allied with Erollisi Marr and Karana. He counts Innoruuk, Cazic-Thule, and Bertoxxulous among his enemies. He has a friendly rivalry with Solusek Ro. Yes, Mithaniel is a god, but is one described as a Paladin. There is no metaphor here, "Mithaniel IS" is pretty blatant, hehe. I do agree, however. It is very wrong to be able to kill the one who gave you your powers to begin with. __________________ Sir Binuru Soie'Couteau - Lord Protector of Erollisi Marr - Retired Baron Lanson - High Priest of Rodcet Nife - Retired

11-24-2002, 04:54 PM	#14
Maeri Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 479	Seems perfectly reasonable a worshipper of Innoruuk might set out to kill their deity as the ultimate expression of hatred. I don't see why there should always be perfect harmony between the various "good-aligned" gods. A paladin of Tunare could have a perfectly good reason to kill Mith Marr. It may make roleplaying sense for a paladin of Mithaniel to lose his powers if he slays his god, but it would be very unreasonable for game balance. Swapping classes might be an interesting idea (to warrior or SK), but that is completely unsupported by the game engine (what do you do with all the Pal only gear?). Finally, consider the idea that this cannot be the true form of Mithaniel Marr, since it reappears after some time, but merely some kind of avatar. Perhaps it can be seen as a test of some kind. As for the loot. As others have stated, of course a paladin will be using great pal only gear. It boggles me that much of the loot from Lcea Katta, who is supposed to be a bard, isn't usable by bards. __________________ Maeri (former [65 Maestro])

11-23-2002, 01:49 PM	#3
kava stoneforge Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Kaladim Posts: 16	why play? then what is this? even run and shoot games have a storyline..have a purpose? and for the most part stick to it? I guess maybe they should insert penalties for going against your Race/Class/deity? something or they might as well introduce machine guns in the next patch and you just run around shooting everything that moves and doesnt move

11-23-2002, 02:01 PM	#5
kava stoneforge Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Kaladim Posts: 16	Why does one pick a race?class? deity then? isnt that for roleplayin?Why are there quests arent those for roleplayin?

11-23-2002, 02:19 PM	#6
CrypteXY Banned User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Prison Posts: 488	Well...Mith Marr is a paladin, no? So...shouldnt he use paladin gear? By killing him, he should also drop it, no?

11-23-2002, 02:30 PM	#7
kava stoneforge Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Kaladim Posts: 16	Wouldnt killing another paladin make you a shadowknight? Why would one retain the paladin qualities if you kill someone who is aligned with you or your values? I guess I'm the only one who sees a problem in killin one who your are to protect or stand for....its like a Tunare wood elf Ranger would go and kill Tunare herself cause she has a great bow as loot? Why would you retain your skills as a ranger ? your gifts that she gave you if you just killed her? betrayed her?

11-23-2002, 02:51 PM	#8
The Earth Keeper Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Nope Posts: 317	I think its cause Tunare likes abusive relationships. As for RP in EQ 3 years and counting for CBA . We are a good aligned roleplaying guild. Crom

11-23-2002, 03:16 PM	#9
Ssetti Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 342	I agree with Crypte, obviously Paladin mobs are going to have Paladin equipment - for their own use. From a roleplay standpoint it's YOU that's making a nonsense of the game, because you're a paladin going out to kill other paladins.

11-23-2002, 04:41 PM	#10
Coroq Guest Posts: n/a	I agree with Sseti, your question "why would they make a drop off of one of the greatest paladins ( Mith Marr) paladin equipable?" is kinda funny. The great paladin will use great paladin gear, makes perfect sense to me. Now, if you are roll playing a paladin, yes, you should not go kill Mith Marr. But I'm pretty sure some people play EQ and have never killed Mith Marr, it can happen you know. I remember this complaint back when Ghoulbane was a hot new thing. So they added stuff like FA and then FD to make more sense. If you mean to say that there should be more good Paladin gear that you get as a reward from some good guy after killing big evil things, i agree.

11-23-2002, 06:21 PM	#11
kava stoneforge Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Kaladim Posts: 16	I never said I go out and kill Mith Marr or anything .....im just saying why make items which require you to kill an NPC which by doing so is obviously the opposite of what your character is suppose to be about . It makes more sense for a pally to go and kill an evil npc

11-23-2002, 06:40 PM	#12
Kerryn Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Keren, Naboo Posts: 1,030	Minor correction. Mithaniel Marr isn't a Paladin. He's a god. Thats it. There is no "Yes but he's a paladin and a god", he's just a god, no ifs or buts. His followers may become paladins by using his powers but that doesn't make him one. Paladins may wish to act like Mithaniel but thats as far as it goes. It's very wrong that someone can go up to their god, kill him, and then heal after the fight with the power he gave them.

11-25-2002, 09:49 AM	#15
Skerry Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 79	This game is a roleplaying game if you make it one. OR it is a hack em up waste a lot of time if you make it one. OR it is a mix of both, if you make it one. I am not a roleplayer, however even I can see how it can be a roleplaying game should you choose to play it that way. As for Mith, well .. being a pally he would have pally gear. He isn'g going to drop the Phat Lewt of Druid Uberness now is he? As for the best piece? Well, if you are NOT a roleplayer, he is just another mob waiting to be downed. If you are a TRUE roleplayer you would not attend such a raid, in fact you would try to convince those aruond you NOT to kill the god, either that or you would chastise them for even THINKING about it. Perhaps, if he was killed you would then take a day or 2 off to mourn the temporary loss of your god waiting for him return to his mortal form. As for getting the loot. . well that is up to you to figure out how and why and when. I can only go so far. __________________ Skerry ExOfficer - Divine Synergy (by choice)

11-25-2002, 04:20 PM	#16
Evelle Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Midwest USA Posts: 234	As a god they are clearly not mortal or subject to mortal rules. Therefore by besting one in combat you haven't killed him really. Since this is EQ we all know he is going to spawn again in 3, 5, 7 days whatever. At any rate I would think that any warrior type god wouldn't be insulted by allowing a follower to try to best them in combat. Perhaps the gods power is diminished for a short period of time. IE the time it takes for them to respawn. Blah enough of the roleplay talk. __________________ Evelle Dark Priestess

11-26-2002, 02:50 AM	#17
Verno Soulkeeper Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: London Posts: 133	Paladins are Good. End of story. Anyone roleplaying a Paladin should not be killing Mith Marr, Tunare or any other Good god, regardless of wether they are their own deity or not. Of course many folks don't worry about roleplaying at all. Some suspend it for just long enough to get the bit of loot they want. Fair enough I say; it's a game. Play it how you enjoy playing it (without causing grief for others of course). In the Ghoubane situation, any Paladin willing to kill a fellow Paladin for his weapon, got the Ghoubane. Those who refused to take such dark action were rewarded for their compassion with a quest to obtain the same item. I certainly quested for mine. Perhaps the same will become true of whatever items Mithaniel Marr carries. Though perhaps not. Could one really expect to wield the same weapon as his god?!? I would expect to be unable to even lift it! Verno Soulkeeper. Paladin of Marr for 46 seasons.

11-26-2002, 03:17 AM	#18
Krrak Registered User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Great White North Posts: 427	Another way to think of this - from a role-playing point of view: Is that the "God" Mith Marr is not really the god, but an avatar sent to test those who he would one day accept into his personal service. What greater test than to see if the one who would join him would be willing to prove his worth in battle. If you are successful, you do not really kill the avatar, but the avatar concede's the battle and hands out rewards (loot) to those who were there, with them deciding how to split said rewards. After all what mortal or group of mortals could really defeat a god. Sadly, Everquest is not a role-playing game or even a questing game. While both aspects can certainly be done, most will realize that EverQuest should have been called either EverCamp or EverKill... but the game is a wonderful catharsis and fun to boot. my 2 coppers __________________ Master Artisan Krrak (Kiillz) D'Bonz Monk Officer Destiny Of Marr

11-26-2002, 03:19 AM	#19
Katty Pain so close to Pleasure Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: in Aishens panties Posts: 125	Katty was created cause i became kos in my hometown with Cattie. needed a mule. So i wanted the best price and stuff i could get. so i made a Enchanter with maxed Cha and worshipping Innoruuk. i then started playing her a little, and had a blast. And so now she is the one i prefer to play. I guess her having a diety as a enchanter could be classed as roleplayish. Since most enchanters prefer to not have one due to faction issues with illusions. For me however it was purely to gain better faction in neriak as a mule. Everquest it sadly not built for real roleplaying. As the engine does not really allow for that. the only roleplaying occuring, is the Role you take on while playing your char. Weather your being yourself, or acting. If you want a game that allows for real hardcore roleplaying, i suggest looking into Neverwinter Night. That game has some awesome potential for roleplay. __________________ Katty - Retired Da`Kor If you do not succeed with your first attempt. Remove all evidence that you ever tried.

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