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Old 05-15-2004, 08:25 PM   #26
Gerick
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The thing is there should be a path ANYONE can follow to climb the latter, not just one for those who are born lucky enough to be on the second floor to start with, otherwise we will have the dark ages again, you let the masses get dirty, unwashed and unclean you breed nasty new viruses and other nasty shit, you want an uber virus to grow because we neglect those of us who are not born lucky, you go right ahead but i will help those less fortunate when i can, as i know when your dead, your dead.

my point is that if the only way to get up in the world is thru stocks then the poor are "shit out of luck"

lets just hope you dont make an unwise investment
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Old 05-15-2004, 08:28 PM   #27
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How is that a problem? Those that take greater risks should reap greater rewards.
Its not a risk factor.
Its simple economics. If you have $40 a week to invest in the stock market athat is only $2000. The people who have $20k a week to invest have $1mil a year to invest. They will make a proportionately greater amount while those that have less will not make nearly the amount they will. In fact as the richer curve goes up, the poorer curve flattens out. It is a normal curve for any model. The ends of the curve have greater movement than those beneath it. That means that this economic model is built to create money for only a few people.
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Old 05-15-2004, 08:31 PM   #28
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Quote "you let the masses get dirty, unwashed and unclean you breed nasty new viruses and other nasty shit, you want an uber virus to grow because we neglect those of us who are not born lucky, you go right ahead but i will help those less fortunate when i can, as i know when your dead, your dead."

What the hell was that??!!?!
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Old 05-15-2004, 08:36 PM   #29
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simple fact, small pox, the black plague etc happend because people got to poor to eat right, keep clean and live decently, people packed into one house to save money and viruses went nuts because of the many weak hosts that were around for them.

my point being you may think yourself safe in your house, but a virus doesnt give 2 shits about the numbers you pull down
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Old 05-15-2004, 08:43 PM   #30
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Quote Gerick: "simple fact, small pox, the black plague etc happend because people got to poor to eat right, keep clean and live decently, people packed into one house to save money and viruses went nuts because of the many weak hosts that were around for them.

my point being you may think yourself safe in your house, but a virus doesnt give 2 shits about the numbers you pull down"


That's incredible Gerick, you just said that plague happened because people were too poor to eat right, be clean, etc., then in the next sentence you say a virus doesn't give a shit about the numbers you pull--which is it? Does it only affect the poor (which you are implying is the rich people's fault) or does your plague get everyone regardless of income?

The whole point, either way you are trying to get it across is moot. When I was younger my family lived in a trailer, we did not have alot at the time but I was clean--that is a personal preference. Yes, there are slums in run down neighborhoods, but not to the extent that the plague would survive as it did in medieval days--life was completely different back then. Yes, to a certain extent, some illnesses do affect poorer neighborhoods--dysentery (sp) is found in alot of malnourished people--that goes without saying, but is it the fault of people with more money? NO. If you feel that it is, by all means, go donate your money to people who are living in slums, I am sure you will sleep better at night.
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Old 05-15-2004, 08:58 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Alauradana
Quote Gerick: "simple fact, small pox, the black plague etc happend because people got to poor to eat right, keep clean and live decently, people packed into one house to save money and viruses went nuts because of the many weak hosts that were around for them.

my point being you may think yourself safe in your house, but a virus doesnt give 2 shits about the numbers you pull down"


That's incredible Gerick, you just said that plague happened because people were too poor to eat right, be clean, etc., then in the next sentence you say a virus doesn't give a shit about the numbers you pull--which is it? Does it only affect the poor (which you are implying is the rich people's fault) or does your plague get everyone regardless of income?

The whole point, either way you are trying to get it across is moot. When I was younger my family lived in a trailer, we did not have alot at the time but I was clean--that is a personal preference. Yes, there are slums in run down neighborhoods, but not to the extent that the plague would survive as it did in medieval days--life was completely different back then. Yes, to a certain extent, some illnesses do affect poorer neighborhoods--dysentery (sp) is found in alot of malnourished people--that goes without saying, but is it the fault of people with more money? NO. If you feel that it is, by all means, go donate your money to people who are living in slums, I am sure you will sleep better at night.

i guess i have to spell it out for you, take the black plague, rats moved in because of the mess the poor made, the poor got sick and passed it back and forth, during this time the virus mutates, learning to survive the human immune system for longer time periods, and how to milk more from its hosts, sooner or later that virus will mutate to the point it may take bigger and badder pray, healthy people, those healthy people can include the rich.

all I mean by this is if you allow people to suffer in squaler(sp) then you might regret it when the virus has had all those people to learn from and improve itself upon, it doesnt give a shit about how much you pull down, but like a wolf it will pull down the weakest first.

we are lucky today, we dont have 8 to a 4 room house, but if we keep outsourcing and sending our wealth abroad then we are asking for it, as for the rich not being responsible, you just refuse to see the link, you want to pull an extra 15$ off a product so you outsource, the consumer is american, so the money goes to your company and to another nation, slowly, you kill off enough cash from our system that there arnt consumers, so you turn to investing to stay rich.

so the CEO is the one doing the damage(or stock holders voting) but the blame doesnt stop there, if you invest in these companys, you are APPROVING their actions.

all you can do is keep workers here, or donate to health clinics and food drives to help raise the qaulity of life for those in dire straights, by allowing it you are partly at fault
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Old 05-15-2004, 09:04 PM   #32
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Ummmm....ok. And I guess if you sneeze and it hits someone in the left leg, and that leg later trips up a mouse, who steals cheese from my house, and then that cheese passes and ends up in a stew that Suzie Q from Peoria eats, then it must be your fault right?

Talk about your screwed up logic--this is nothing more than you resenting people who have more than you and wishing them bad because they are where they are. Go to work, it is good for you, and it won't kill you .

Also, you totally hijacked the thread if you hadn't noticed.
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Old 05-15-2004, 09:06 PM   #33
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yes because this thread is going in circles, havent ya noticed?

if you want to talk about globalization then you also need to be willing to see the big picture.

you think i dont work? your sadly mistaken, but of course its a valid insult isnt it?
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Old 05-15-2004, 09:14 PM   #34
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It always makes me wonder why people complain and blame people who have more, for the people who have less. Rather you are someone who has more, and in which case, instead of complaining, if it bugs you you should be doing something about it; or, rather you are someone who has less, in which case, once again, you should be doing something about it.

We have $1,000 a year taken out of our pay deductions that goes to my favorite charity. I sleep at night--I pay my taxes and help out where I can but I don't feel I should have to be forced to give my money to anyone else, I earn it, it's mine. I choose to help others, it is a choice, and rightly so.
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Old 05-15-2004, 09:17 PM   #35
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then you are an exception, there are plenty of others out there who are happy having a house so large that there are rooms they do not visit, assholes is a comodity that isnt running out any time soon heheh
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Old 05-15-2004, 09:32 PM   #36
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Yes, but it is also something most people keep under wraps. None of my friends know we donate money, it is not something you go around telling people is it? I can say it on this board because I am anonymous, I don't know you people, I am sure alot of others do donate. I also feel that that is a choice though, not something you should force on people.
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Old 05-15-2004, 09:34 PM   #37
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Oh I agree, i just get pissed when i say charity and people look at me like im speaking a phrase from the dead sea scrolls.
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Old 05-15-2004, 09:52 PM   #38
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It always makes me wonder why people complain and blame people who have more,
That is because you really aren't listening to what the complaint actually is. Nobody cares about how rich the rich are. I personally want to see Warren Buffet and Bill Gates get richer and richer. That would tell us that they most likely are benefitting from a better economy.

The complaint, if you are bold enough to listen to it, is that the starting point should not be the end of the monetary curve, but that the distribution ofd money should benefit MORE people. It is not necessary to have so much in so few places when having so much in so many places helps more people.
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Old 05-15-2004, 11:06 PM   #39
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There is no point to this thread, the economy is fine right now, it may get worse later, but right now its fine. Outsourcing helped increase companies profits enough they were able to create 1 million NEW jobs in 2 months time. Rates are going up as a reflection of that . Not one rat caused a plague, from my 5th grade class i learned that the flies who attached themselves to rats which caused plague in europe. that and unsanitary condoitions. you calling all the poor dirty? You dont need to be rich to own a bar of fucking soap. cook your food thoroughly, wash your ass thoroughly and youll be fine.

The chick in Crying Game was a guy

Rosebud was a sled.

Jello is made from horse hooves

and

Kerry Heinz only paid 14% on her income taxes last year.

lalalalala see ya!
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Old 05-15-2004, 11:39 PM   #40
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Outsourcing helped increase companies profits enough they were able to create 1 million NEW jobs in 2 months time. = fuzzy math.
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Old 05-16-2004, 01:40 AM   #41
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You honestly believe outsourcing is the fault of this current administration and thats not even remotely true. The very tech companies that were allowed to flourish under the Clinton administration started the practice in the 90s. Other companies had done it prior to that on a small scale, but when communications issues were resolved (telecommunications and internet explosion) it made fiscal sense to ship those jobs over seas. And ship them overseas they did.

And not only are you wrong about Outsourcing, you didnt even bother to tie it to inflation in any reasonable manner. You just said "cons say this" and "cons say that". Funny, it was your name on the start of this thread.

I could play your game and respond to your wild ass ranting with a generalization about Democratic administrations creating problems and leaving the mess behind for a Conservative one to clean up, but why bother. You will just drift into some other insane rant about stuff you read off a bumper sticker.

You arent a good spokesman for the Liberal viewpoint and I would be emberrassed if any thing I believed accidently meshed with one of your viewpoints.

In closing I would like to add this, I am sorry your cable channel only gets Fox News and no other channels. I would probably be a freaking nut myself if I had to watch Bill Oreilly 11 hours a day.
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Old 05-16-2004, 05:25 PM   #42
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Outsourcing helped increase companies profits enough they were able to create 1 million NEW jobs in 2 months time. = fuzzy math.
Just shows that you need to learn up a little more on the subject.
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Old 05-16-2004, 06:49 PM   #43
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Bumbleroot you and your fellow libs would have to be right at least once to be right again seeings how you titled this thread "Libs are right again". I have been coming to this forum for awhile and I have yet to see where you have been right about anything so far.
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Old 05-16-2004, 10:14 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by bumbleroot
Outsourcing helped increase companies profits enough they were able to create 1 million NEW jobs in 2 months time. = fuzzy math.

in ANOTHER country

or are they counting all the "new" jobs now called manufacturing burgers?

It is the fault of the current administration and the clinton administration for ALLOWING this shit to continue, we have to put up some new taxes to marginalize the benefits of moving jobs to other countrys.

sidenote your right about the flys but i didnt feel like typing up the entire history of the plague, next thing you know you will require me to post its RNA structure to prove that it can infect people
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Old 05-17-2004, 12:09 AM   #45
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We arent going to be able to advance to the next levels of knowledge and accomplishment without a cooperation on a global level. Its a simple fact

I love this. It's like total BS and called a "fact". "New Levels of Knowledge and Understanding" wow, that sounds almost New Age =D It's like by allowing our wealth to be siphoned off by other countries we will reap some sort of "Karmic Reward" =D

I know of a good reward for that... getting a huge foot up your butt and "understanding" you were a moron for having wealth and losing it. Seriousely "Next levels of Knowledge" ... go work for Hallmark or something making stupid greeting cards. This kind of horse crap takes a special mood to be in to find believable, I think. Maybe being on crack.
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Old 05-17-2004, 03:01 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Everclear
We arent going to be able to advance to the next levels of knowledge and accomplishment without a cooperation on a global level. Its a simple fact

I love this. It's like total BS and called a "fact". "New Levels of Knowledge and Understanding" wow, that sounds almost New Age =D It's like by allowing our wealth to be siphoned off by other countries we will reap some sort of "Karmic Reward" =D

I know of a good reward for that... getting a huge foot up your butt and "understanding" you were a moron for having wealth and losing it. Seriousely "Next levels of Knowledge" ... go work for Hallmark or something making stupid greeting cards. This kind of horse crap takes a special mood to be in to find believable, I think. Maybe being on crack.
Ya know, Henry Ford and Carnegie (even Morgan and Hughes etc etc) amongst other early American pioneers understood the true meaning of capitalism, wealth and the theory of money, it's a pity that their wisdom hasn't filtered down through the ages. Even the masters of Venice and Florence understood it

The remarkable birth rate of Model T's was made possible by the most advanced production technology yet conceived. After much experimentation by Ford and his engineers, the system that had evolved by 1913-14 in Ford's new plant in Highland Park, Michigan, was able to deliver parts, subassemblies, and assemblies (themselves built on subsidiary assembly lines) with precise timing to a constantly moving main assembly line, where a complete chassis was turned out every 93 minutes, an enormous improvement over the 728 minutes formerly required. The minute subdivision of labour and the coordination of a multitude of operations produced huge gains in productivity.

In 1914 the Ford Motor Company announced that it would henceforth pay eligible workers a minimum wage of $5 a day (compared to an average of $2.34 for the industry) and would reduce the work day from nine hours to eight, thereby converting the factory to a three-shift day. Overnight Ford became a worldwide celebrity. People either praised him as a great humanitarian or excoriated him as a mad socialist. Ford said humanitarianism had nothing to do with it. Previously profit had been based on paying wages as low as workers would take and pricing cars as high as the traffic would bear. Ford, on the other hand, stressed low pricing (the Model T cost $950 in 1908 and $290 in 1927) in order to capture the widest possible market and then met the price by volume and efficiency. Ford's success in making the automobile a basic necessity turned out to be but a prelude to a more widespread revolution. The development of mass-production techniques, which enabled the company eventually to turn out a Model T every 24 seconds; the frequent reductions in the price of the car made possible by economies of scale; and the payment of a living wage that raised workers above subsistence and made them potential customers for, among other things, automobiles--these innovations changed the very structure of society.
Wealth for everyone, means more wealth and standard of living for everyone, basic economics does actually work if you leave behind all the Luddite-esque fears and let it run. Increasing global wealth, productivity and standards of living only help to raise the wealth of the Western industrial nations in the medium to long term.
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Old 05-17-2004, 05:00 AM   #47
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then you are an exception, there are plenty of others out there who are happy having a house so large that there are rooms they do not visit, assholes is a comodity that isnt running out any time soon heheh
What makes these people assholes? It's their money, they can spend it how they like. Worry about your own money and quit judging what other people do with theirs.
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Old 05-17-2004, 05:26 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Everclear
We arent going to be able to advance to the next levels of knowledge and accomplishment without a cooperation on a global level. Its a simple fact

I love this. It's like total BS and called a "fact". "New Levels of Knowledge and Understanding" wow, that sounds almost New Age =D It's like by allowing our wealth to be siphoned off by other countries we will reap some sort of "Karmic Reward" =D

I know of a good reward for that... getting a huge foot up your butt and "understanding" you were a moron for having wealth and losing it. Seriousely "Next levels of Knowledge" ... go work for Hallmark or something making stupid greeting cards. This kind of horse crap takes a special mood to be in to find believable, I think. Maybe being on crack.
I suggest Michio Kaku. He is capable of putting things like this at a 3rd grade level for people like you. The simple FACT is, that if we do not destroy ourselves, which is a definite possibility, then the next levels of human achievement will require global cooperation. Maybe you should also consult some of the papers published by the scientists of the superconducting supercolider project. They may also be able to help you to understand. Of course, it may be simpler just to let you and those like you who still cling to your tribalistic views to die off. Its happened before and it will happen again. The earth WILL become global if we do not destroy ourselves first whether you like it or not.
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Old 05-17-2004, 07:18 AM   #49
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It's like by allowing our wealth to be siphoned off by other countries we will reap some sort of "Karmic Reward" =D
We aren't doing it to be nice, we are doing it to make a fuck-ton of money.
wow, that sounds almost New Age =D
You nailed it on the head. We are starting the technology age. You can hold it off if you want by stopping globalization, but it will come eventually and we would be behind the rest of the world.


I think it's going to be interesting how we evolve in the next 20 years or so. Right now you can get just about any information you need, or if you need to spread your idea it will be very easy. The people who will take a little risk to start their idea will prosper, and the people (or sheep) who do their 9-5 job will continue to decline. Of course this last paragraph is my opinion.
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Old 05-17-2004, 07:34 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Maximus
We aren't doing it to be nice, we are doing it to make a fuck-ton of money.
Who is this "we"?
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