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Old 05-13-2004, 08:12 AM   #1
Lurikeen
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Default Red Cross Report of Iraqi prison tortures...

Detainees suffer terror at U.S. hands

Red Cross reports abuse widespread

Says torture part of deliberate tactic


OAKLAND ROSS

FEATURE WRITER

Hell, in Iraq, erupts at night.

First, they break down your door and clamber inside — large, Yankee soldiers in combat gear with automatic rifles.

They bark orders, wrest men, women and children from their beds, assemble everyone in a single room. They start smashing your possessions in front of you — cabinets, chairs, tables, anything.

They shout insults, brandish their weapons, kick and punch their captives, striking out with their rifle barrels at anyone who resists.

They handcuff those they want — typically, anyone who happens to be male, no matter how old or infirm.

They hustle their prisoners, generally clad only in pyjamas or underwear, out into the dark Iraqi night. Essential items, such as eyeglasses or medicine, are invariably left behind.

They don't say where they are taking you, they don't say why, and they probably never will.

You are terrified, practically naked, already in acute physical distress, and almost certainly innocent of wrongdoing, but that doesn't seem to matter a whit.

This — as depicted in a report by the International Committee of the Red Cross — is merely the first circle of hell in an Iraq under occupation by U.S.-led military forces, and your torment has barely begun.

It gets far, far worse.

Recently, the entire world has recoiled in horror and outrage at photographs illustrating the sometimes savage treatment inflicted upon Iraqi political detainees by U.S. military prison guards at the Abu Ghraib detention facility in Baghdad.

As disturbing as those images are — and there other, even more alarming images that have yet to reach the public — they provide only a small and sickening hint of what has been taking place in Iraq since a U.S.-led military coalition invaded the country more than a year ago.

As detailed in a powerful, 24-page report by the Red Cross — completed in February and leaked to the public in the last few days — the terrorizing of Iraqi detainees, their gross physical abuse and psychological humiliation, are far from being rare or exceptional acts carried out by rogue prison guards.

Instead, says the Red Cross, they are part of a deliberate, systematic strategy applied in the initial stages of a prisoner's detention, aimed at breaking him down mentally and physically, so he will be more likely to co-operate during interrogation.

The Red Cross says the abuses are widespread, they appear to have the approval of those in charge of the coalition forces, and in some cases they are "tantamount to torture." They have caused death, permanent injury and unspeakable suffering.

The Red Cross report provides many lurid examples of the kinds of abuse regularly meted out during a nine-month period last year by military guards at a variety of detention facilities in Iraq and parallels findings by U.S. Maj.-Gen. Antonio Taguba, who in a separate report has documented a series of grotesque and probably criminal offences carried out against detainees at the Abu Ghraib detention facility in Baghdad.

Several photographs of the horrors described by Taguba have already found their way into public view, but others have not. In time, they likely will. Yesterday, the United Nations children's agency issued a statement in Geneva, saying it was "profoundly disturbed" by reports children may have been among those mistreated. According to one report, still unreleased videotapes of abuses against detainees include images of Iraqi guards raping young boys at the Abu Ghraib prison.

Based on Taguba's findings and on those of the Red Cross, here are some of the disturbing snapshots that we have yet to see — pictures of hell in Iraq.
  • One naked detainee is forced to stand on a box with a sandbag on his head and with wires attached to his fingers, toes and penis to simulate electrical-shock torture.
  • A male military guard rapes a female detainee.
  • A guard smashes a chemical light and pours the phosphoric liquid on several detainees.
  • A detainee is beaten with a broom handle and a chair.
  • A detainee has his head slammed against a wall and his guard promptly stitches up the wound himself.
  • A hooded detainee is made to lie down on what is likely a running truck engine, burning him so badly he requires three months in hospital, extensive skin grafts over much of his body and the amputation of a finger.
  • A detainee is force-fed a baseball bat, which is then secured in place with a scarf.
  • Male detainees are forced to parade naked in public, with women's underwear wrapped over their heads.
  • Detainees are made to sit for hours in direct sunlight in 50-degree temperatures or forced to remain in awkward positions for hours at a time.
  • Detainees are kept naked in solitary confinement without light for days at a time.
  • A 28-year-old detainee, married with two children, is beaten to death by his captors, and his death is officially attributed to cardio-respiratory arrest-asphyxia, cause unknown.

The litany of horrors goes on and on, and the abuses continued unabated last year even though the Red Cross regularly expressed its concerns to coalition forces, making it difficult to reach any conclusion except the Red Cross' own — that this harsh and inhuman treatment has been encouraged or at least tolerated at senior levels of the occupying armies.

Hard as it may be to believe, the detainees captured by coalition forces are the lucky ones.

Those picked up by the Iraqi police — a force that operates under U.S. authority and control — often proceed at once to the innermost circle of hell.

The Red Cross report documents horrific practices carried out by the Iraqi police against detainees in their charge, often with the purpose of extorting money from them, sometimes prior to turning them over to coalition forces for further interrogation.

Abuses cited by the Red Cross include whipping prisoners with cables, kicking them in the testicles, hanging them from iron bars by their handcuffs, burning them with cigarettes, pretending to shoot them with unloaded pistols, threatening to rape their wives, and pouring water on their legs while giving them electrical shocks with live, stripped wires.

Finally, it should be noted that the vast majority of the political detainees in Iraq are likely innocent of any wrongdoing.

According to the Red Cross report, coalition military intelligence officers themselves estimate that somewhere between 70 and 90 per cent of those whom they detain have been picked up by mistake and are guilty of nothing at all, except the crime of living in an occupied country and stumbling into a foreign-administered hell.

Reprinted from the Toronto Star.
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Old 05-13-2004, 08:57 AM   #2
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If this was a typical news report, or one based upon Iraqi or Coalition sources, one could perhaps take it with a pinch of salt and expect some bias one way or the other.

The fact that this report is written by a body who is acknowledged for it's impartiality world-wide, makes the findings all the more worrying IMO.
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Old 05-13-2004, 09:07 AM   #3
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Exactly, what is very troublesome to me is the following statement...

"According to the Red Cross report, coalition military intelligence officers themselves estimate that somewhere between 70 and 90 per cent of those whom they detain have been picked up by mistake and are guilty of nothing at all, except the crime of living in an occupied country and stumbling into a foreign-administered hell."

Torture of innocent people is simply evil. No matter who does it.
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Old 05-14-2004, 08:44 PM   #4
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I just wanted to note,
Where was the Red Cross' outrage over Saddams treatment of his own people.




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Old 05-14-2004, 11:22 PM   #5
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http://www.icrc.org/Web/eng/siteeng0...256B66005BF3AA
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Old 05-15-2004, 08:27 PM   #6
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No where in that link does it mention anywhere the treatment of the Iraqi people by the Saddam regime. I am not saying it doesn't exist, it just doesn't exist on that particular link.
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Old 05-15-2004, 08:51 PM   #7
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Umm... Alauradana who was in control of Iraq in 1997? Did you even read the report at the link?
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Old 05-15-2004, 08:55 PM   #8
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Yes I did. I did not see one reference to the condemnation of Saddam Hussein for atrocities committed on Iraqi citizens. I saw reports on the various factions in Iraq fighting, but none referencing Saddam Hussein. Please copy and paste what you feel are those statements, because I did read it and I did not see it.
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Old 05-15-2004, 10:00 PM   #9
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Yes I did. I did not see one reference to the condemnation of Saddam Hussein for atrocities committed on Iraqi citizens.
For some reason you would LOVE to believe that the Red Cross is taking sides in the issue. However, what you are suggesting is that the Red Cross go into the populace and find atrocities in an area that they are not equipped to. And as far as going into Iraqi prisons. If Hussein did not allow them into his prisons, they can not in any way report on it.
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Old 05-15-2004, 11:39 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by bumbleroot
For some reason you would LOVE to believe that the Red Cross is taking sides in the issue. However, what you are suggesting is that the Red Cross go into the populace and find atrocities in an area that they are not equipped to. And as far as going into Iraqi prisons. If Hussein did not allow them into his prisons, they can not in any way report on it.
Bumble,
What you're advocating is how America is held to standards that are
not applied to anybody else. The geneva convention holds the world to
the standards you seem to be forgetting. Yet, We the USA are enforcing it ourselves, "ON OURSELVES..

You cannot name any other nation that does this.
Now go have your period.



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Old 05-16-2004, 12:31 AM   #11
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Look, we allowed the Red Cross into these prisons. Hussein most likely didn't. However, we shifted the prisoners around so the Red Cross did not see them. There is no difference between him trying to hide something than from us doing the same. We have no excuse on this, it was shitty work.
Do not, for one second think that the USA is right on this. If we did wrong, we did wrong. No amount of nationalism makes it right.
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Old 05-16-2004, 12:46 AM   #12
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What Saddam did or didn't do isn't the issue here, but thanks for more deflection. What the issue is what WE are doing. Saddam's wrongs don't make this RIGHT. Quit with the "Saddam did worse" BS. This isn't right and I know it. I am sorry if you don't.
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Old 05-16-2004, 01:18 AM   #13
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American arrogance at its finest. We are systematicly torturing 90% of the (wrong) Iraqi population and inviting the Red Cross into watch. Makes sense to me.

For every negative you see, Bumble, I see a positive. Prisoners were abused (negative) and we are investigating and correcting the behaviour (positive). Excellent work, Mr President.

Good job too Red Cross. You caught those sneaky bastards. Well, they opened up their doors and let you walk in and take a look around and didnt even put a bullet in your head. Kudos to you.
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Old 05-16-2004, 02:14 AM   #14
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I guess we should limit our way of interrogation to asking the Iraqi's in question politely to follow the soldiers to a undisclosed location where they will serve up some milk and cookies while they chat and try to get a little information from them.

Who knows which ones are innocent and which ones are not? You guys don't have a clue what these soldiers busting down doors and capturing Iraqi's are up against. When I read over what the Red Cross has found, it seems pretty mild when I think back on how other countries tortured prisioners while trying to obtain information during previous wars.
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Old 05-16-2004, 01:33 PM   #15
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If Hussein did not allow them into his prisons, they can not in any way report on it.


Read your own link, in it there are several documented visits to Abu Gharib prison under the Hussein regime.
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Old 05-16-2004, 02:18 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Alauradana
No where in that link does it mention anywhere the treatment of the Iraqi people by the Saddam regime. I am not saying it doesn't exist, it just doesn't exist on that particular link.
Alauradana, the report at that link speaks to the inhumane sanitation conditions at the time and also a failure on the part of Saddam to rebuild the water supply, etc. It is a scathing report against Saddam post GW 1.

What did you want the IRC to write?

Also, the IRC didn't single out Geroge Bush in their report of Abu Gharib and condemn him.

You, or others, should stop insinuating that the IRC is somehow against Bush. That is simply absurd paranoia.
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Old 05-16-2004, 02:35 PM   #17
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I guess we should limit our way of interrogation to asking the Iraqi's in question politely to follow the soldiers to a undisclosed location where they will serve up some milk and cookies while they chat and try to get a little information from them.
We can make glib comments like that to our hearts content. Bottom line is, the coalition forces are expected to abide by The Geneva Convention . Like it or not.
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Old 05-16-2004, 03:15 PM   #18
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Yeah you're right. They should know better with the liberal media sitting here ready to pounce. It was pretty dumb for them to do that stuff and then take pictures.
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Old 05-16-2004, 03:34 PM   #19
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Ok Luri, now I call you out. That link was posted regarding this post:

"Where was the Red Cross' outrage over Saddams treatment of his own people."

The link to the IRC was posted directly below that, leading the reader to believe that that was a link from the IRC showing they were outraged about Saddam's treatment of his own people. I then said that there was no reference in that link showing that the IRC was outraged about Saddam's actions. There isn't. You said there was and I asked you to copy and paste, and you replied "that link speaks to the inhumane sanitation conditions at the time and also a failure on the part of Saddam to rebuild the water supply, etc"--that isn't an outrage over the treatment of his people. It is not about how he used chemical weapons on his own people, nor how he tortured and murdered them. Zolmaz made that statement and I understand what he was saying, why are all these reports being made about the treatment of prisoners by the US, when these same organizations don't plaster the press with reports of real atrocities going on in other countries. That is a valid point. That link doesn't show that the IRC does the same thing--which I am assuming Bumble posted it to refute Zolmaz's statement.

You also say, "you, or others, should stop insinuating that the IRC is somehow against Bush.". The only thing I have done on this thread is point out the inaccuracies that have been linked or said, I haven't expressed an opinion, so please direct that at someone who made that statement.
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Old 05-16-2004, 03:45 PM   #20
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Alauradana you are just being silly. Call me out? Are we in the wild west now? LOL

Why would a body that tries to give impartial reports such as the IRC be "outraged"? You have just become the victim of your own verbage.
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Old 05-16-2004, 06:42 PM   #21
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Once again, Luri, read above--I haven't said that, someone else did. Sheesh, you're guilty of all the things you try and blame on me. You were caught out, called on, (insert whatever verbage here), I was merely showing that it didn't exist on that page, I had no opinions whatsoever.
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Old 05-17-2004, 04:46 AM   #22
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According to the Red Cross report, coalition military intelligence officers themselves estimate that somewhere between 70 and 90 per cent of those whom they detain have been picked up by mistake and are guilty of nothing at all, except the crime of living in an occupied country and stumbling into a foreign-administered hell.
And the Red Cross knows who's guilty and who's not how? I'm not saying that everyone in the prisons are guilty, but I'd sure like to know the basis for their estimate.
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Old 05-17-2004, 05:30 AM   #23
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The answers of your question Wildane is in the quote you made.

"coalition military intelligence officers themselves estimate that somewhere between 70 and 90 per cent of those whom they detain have been picked up by mistake"

As for the rest of the thread, Coalition forces have been wrong (COALITION, not USA only). They went to free a country from a mad opressor (since no WMD have been found, but human memory tend to forget fast) and are doing the same things they were fighting against.
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Old 05-17-2004, 07:18 AM   #24
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Ok, I'm stupid, I totally missed that part. Thanks, Nos.
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Old 05-17-2004, 05:06 PM   #25
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Yeah you're right. They should know better with the liberal media sitting here ready to pounce. It was pretty dumb for them to do that stuff and then take pictures.

Yeah, they should have known to torture innocents and do sicko things and not leave a trail /DUH Why isn't it people like this that get picked up and sent to these places?
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