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Old 05-12-2004, 07:56 PM   #1
bumbleroot
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Default A growing concern

http://www.themilitant.com/2004/6807/680703.html

I was made aware of this today by a Hispanic newspaper's publisher. Apparently the rumor that he said is that we are going to give Castro an ultimatum of getting out of Cuba in 48 hours. I personally don't see this happening, but there is great instability and it is in our back yard. And it is rife with Oil.
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Old 05-12-2004, 08:00 PM   #2
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
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Originally Posted by bumbleroot
Apparently the rumor that he said is that we are going to give Castro an ultimatum of getting out of Cuba in 48 hours. I personally don't see this happening, but there is great instability and it is in our back yard. And it is rife with Oil.
It's called ritalin.




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Old 05-12-2004, 08:08 PM   #3
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Castro is older than dirt. if the US hasnt invaded Cuba in all these years since Bay Of Pigs then they are never going to do anything til after Castro dies. Id love to see Cuba become Castro free, it will keep those diseased refugees from paddling 1950s GM cars over here and i can finally buy real cuban cigars where i dont pay through the ass to get them. Previously everytime if i wanted some real cubans id have to trip to cancun or when my friends vacation there give them some cash to buy a box. Damn i could go for one right now
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Old 05-12-2004, 08:36 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by bumbleroot
Apparently the rumor that he said is that we are going to give Castro an ultimatum of getting out of Cuba in 48 hours. I personally don't see this happening, but there is great instability and it is in our back yard. And it is rife with Oil.
Cuba isn't rife with Oil, Venezuala is.

I'd like to see some basis for this rumor. I agree with you and Chuk that I don't see it happening. Bush may be bored, but he's not that bored. I don't think we have any troops left to commit to Cuba; we'd have to send boy scouts and girl scouts.

My guess is that the reason the Cuban government opposes the FTAA (see the linked article) is because they know that they won't get ANY PART of that free trade as long as we have an embargo upon them...

The article points out that Venezuela and Cuba must have an alliance to work to destablize latin america because:

Evo Morales, one of the leaders of peasant groups that revolted and brought down the Sánchez de Lozada government, “has close ties to both Mr. Castro and Mr. Chávez.”
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Old 05-12-2004, 08:42 PM   #5
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Syria is next, we already recently put sanctions on them.

Btw chuk, have you checked out J. & R. Tobacco?
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Old 05-12-2004, 08:53 PM   #6
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Btw chuk, have you checked out J. & R. Tobacco?
I buy cigars at the East hanover J&R and the one up route 17 near new york. Their cigars are not real cubans and even though prices have come way down since the cigar fad isnt as popular as they used to be its still too expensive to be paying for cigars made in Honduras Bahamas or Florida. The mexican made Te-amo's are ok, but like everything else at J&R they are sold almost stale.

I order from Thompson's catalog becuase their cigars are fresh and the pices are right.
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Old 05-12-2004, 10:26 PM   #7
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If I'm not mistaken, hasn't Castro been saying for years that we're plotting assassination and invasion attempts? One of these days he's just bound to be right!

Besides, if we were going to invade Cuba, wouldn't we have done it under the Clinton administration? Think of how much money he could have saved on cigars.

(Yes, boys and girls, that was sarcasm, and a shameless and not-really-funny joke at Bill Clinton's expense. I claim that I had no choice, that it was just begging to be said.)
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Old 05-13-2004, 07:03 AM   #8
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I think Bumbles post was sarcasm too.
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Old 05-13-2004, 07:15 AM   #9
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Actually Max, it wasn't. The Cuba thing I brought up because of its connection with Venezuela. Venezuela is one of the most abundant oil producing countries in the world. They have allied with Cuba strongly and I know that Venezuela has been stealing land from their citizens and supposedly torturing and killing citizens in a money/power grab. It is greatly disturbing the economy of South America. Cuba has now allied with them, pretty much the way that they allied with the USSR and that creates them as more of a danger again to us. The threat posed by Venezuela is real and they are able to do this because we are preoccupied. There are strong implications involved in this for us.
This is from Forbes magazine on Feb. 29th of this year...
http://www.forbes.com/business/newsw...tr1280446.html
Why would Chavez make this threat if he were not concerned about any possible invasion?
Although the situation is not volatile, it is a growing concern.
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Old 05-13-2004, 07:17 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by bumbleroot
I was made aware of this today by a Hispanic newspaper's publisher. Apparently the rumor that he said is that we are going to give Castro an ultimatum of getting out of Cuba in 48 hours. I personally don't see this happening, but there is great instability and it is in our back yard. And it is rife with Oil.
So you believe every rumor that is said about Bush?
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Old 05-13-2004, 08:18 AM   #11
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You know he does. ;p
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Old 05-13-2004, 08:21 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by bumbleroot
Actually Max, it wasn't. The Cuba thing I brought up because of its connection with Venezuela. Venezuela is one of the most abundant oil producing countries in the world. They have allied with Cuba strongly and I know that Venezuela has been stealing land from their citizens and supposedly torturing and killing citizens in a money/power grab. It is greatly disturbing the economy of South America. Cuba has now allied with them, pretty much the way that they allied with the USSR and that creates them as more of a danger again to us. The threat posed by Venezuela is real and they are able to do this because we are preoccupied. There are strong implications involved in this for us.
This is from Forbes magazine on Feb. 29th of this year...
http://www.forbes.com/business/newsw...tr1280446.html
Why would Chavez make this threat if he were not concerned about any possible invasion?
Although the situation is not volatile, it is a growing concern.

Chavez is a total nutcase and you just posted you "know" Venezuela is stealing land from its people and the add some rumors about him having his own people murdered. I really think you and Chavez should get together and smoke some of whatever you are on right, im sure you would become fast friends.

I love the "threat posed by Venezuela is real" comment, you keep getting more and more credible every day.
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Old 05-13-2004, 08:36 AM   #13
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o you believe every rumor that is said about Bush?
You are a total dumbass. This isn't even about Bush. READ THE FUCKING ARTICLES before you comment next time.

Chavez is a total nutcase and you just posted you "know" Venezuela is stealing land from its people and the add some rumors about him having his own people murdered
My friend is from Venezuela he has had 10 hectacres taken from him. All the money he had in his bank accounts there has been taken from him. The murderous actions I can only say are rumor because I don't know of anything substantiated about it.
The Venezuela threat is real because they are aligning themselves up against us with Cuba. They are a "growing concern" as I stated before. Are they a major concern? NO! Will they be a concern if they continue as is? Yes!

Are we doing anything about it? I haven't got a clue. Is it out of hand? I haven't got a clue? Are they in the top ten international concerns of our country? Probably. Are they moving up on the list? probably? Is it something we should be aware of? At some point, yes.
We have a dictator who is growing in our hemisphere who has his fingers on one of the largest fields of oil in the world and we could let him get out of hand and become a real danger to us and the rest of the world if we aren't careful.
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Old 05-13-2004, 08:40 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Bumbleroot
The Venezuela threat is real because they are aligning themselves up against us with Cuba. They are a "growing concern" as I stated before. Are they a major concern? NO! Will they be a concern if they continue as is? Yes!
Bumble, what do you mean by "concern"? Do you mean Cuba and Venezuela could potentially be a military threat to the US?
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Old 05-13-2004, 08:42 AM   #15
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This isn't even about Bush. READ THE FUCKING ARTICLES before you comment next time.
Well then who the fuck is going to issue an ultimatum to Castro? And you say cons have anger management problems...
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Old 05-13-2004, 08:50 AM   #16
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Bumble, what do you mean by "concern"? Do you mean Cuba and Venezuela could potentially be a military threat to the US?
That or a strategic threat, economically or militarily.

Well then who the fuck is going to issue an ultimatum to Castro?
Did I say this was derogatory? I said it was a rumor. From what I can understand about the rumor. And it is a rumor at best as far as I know. Mexico is amassing forces towards Venezuela and we may give Cuba an ultimatum. I don't have a clue what is actually going on, but there is a concern that something is going on.
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Old 05-13-2004, 08:50 AM   #17
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Stupid President, stupid government, stupid military...

...

They're going on about this all wrong! They were supposed to start with Canada and Mexico, not Iraq and... um... Cuba!
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Old 05-13-2004, 09:14 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by bumbleroot
That or a strategic threat, economically or militarily.
I don't think they are going to cut off oil supplies, it is their chief export driving their economy. So, I don't know how they could be a serious economic threat, unless they decide to sacrafice their own ecomomy.

Militarily, they are no threat at all. They can't roll what little heavy armour they have through Mexico without notice. They can't load up an army into ships and float them our way without notice, and certainly they don't have airpower that can match ours.

I don't think Venezuela has nukes and they likely have little to no biological or chemical weapons.

Really, I think Chavez is a screw ball who was just ranting much like Castro does. They are buddies and probably even share speech notes for all we know.
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Old 05-13-2004, 09:32 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by bumbleroot
Mexico is amassing forces towards Venezuela and we may give Cuba an ultimatum. I don't have a clue what is actually going on, but there is a concern that something is going on.

There is definately something going on, you are losing it. Have you even looked at map of Central and South America...ever? Mexico is going to get to Venezuela how ... their Navy ?

One thing I can say, you are still pretty damn funny, please keep posting.
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Old 05-13-2004, 10:53 AM   #20
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Venezuela has the ability to disrupt the entire South American trading block. You do not need weapons to fight an economic war. As far as Mexico going in there. I don't believe that you need to be on the border with a country to have military actions against them. Last I checked you didn't.

This much is known so far.
The US backed a successful Coup over the Chavez regime in 2002. We did that for some purpose. Chavez gained his control back however. He is a threat to us in some manner. Now he is allying with Cuba.

We assume Cuba does not have nukes but we don't know what their capabilities are with their relationship with old friends from the USSR. I don't assume Cuba is a threat at this time or even a possible future threat but there is a threat in our own hemisphere but I don't know the true extent of it yet.
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Old 05-13-2004, 11:49 AM   #21
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Bumble you are making shit up again, you said amassing troops, that implies either marching to whatever destination you intend to attack or using an amphibious assault. Neither of which are possible for Mexico.

As far as economicly, sure its possible they could shut off their oil, but we are by far the biggest importer available to them, cutting us off would financially cripple them not us.


Nice conspiracy theory though, needs more menacing elements though.
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Old 05-13-2004, 07:08 PM   #22
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I said it was rumored. I didn't say it was true or false. I said there is stuff going on and I don't have a clue what they are. Nowhere did I say this was FACT. Once again Crimson you are proving to me that Conservatives can not comprehend nuance. I posted this to find out if anyone knew anything about what is going on since not much has been published about it.
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Old 05-13-2004, 07:30 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by bumbleroot
Venezuela has the ability to disrupt the entire South American trading block. You do not need weapons to fight an economic war.
But you do need resources that can be traded. Right now the US is the largest customer of Venezuela's largest resource: oil. I don't think they are going to disrupt South American trade unless they can get enough buyers of their oil to make up the losses they would have when they lose the US.

I don't believe that you need to be on the border with a country to have military actions against them. Last I checked you didn't.
I think you are making assumptions based upon US military abilities. There is no way that Venezuela can launch any sort of military offensive against the US without getting crushed like a roach in the process.

The US backed a successful Coup over the Chavez regime in 2002. We did that for some purpose. Chavez gained his control back however. He is a threat to us in some manner. Now he is allying with Cuba.
Yes we did. The US has never denounced the Monroe doctrine. Our government still views Latin America as our "little brown brothers to the south", as Bush the first stated. So, Chavez is not a threat anymore than he is a victim of US hegemony.
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Old 05-13-2004, 07:32 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by bumbleroot
I said it was rumored. I didn't say it was true or false. I said there is stuff going on and I don't have a clue what they are. Nowhere did I say this was FACT. Once again Crimson you are proving to me that Conservatives can not comprehend nuance. I posted this to find out if anyone knew anything about what is going on since not much has been published about it.
""I said there is stuff going on and I don't have a clue what they are.""

Talk about double talk. And you attack others for your ignorant postings?, Bumble?

Your agenda is clear. Insinuate everything untill your caught, then lie, attack, and
try like hell to get out of it with spin.

Nothing unusual here.



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Old 05-13-2004, 08:11 PM   #25
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Talk about double talk. And you attack others for your ignorant postings?, Bumble?
No double talk. I know for a fact from my Venezuelan friend that there is something going on. His family had to leave Venezuela and the funny thing is he is a distant relative of Chavez.
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