Erollisi Marr - The Nameless

Go Back   Erollisi Marr - The Nameless > NON EQ Stuff (Real life, other games, etc.) > Steam Vent


Reply
 
Add/Share Add/Share Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-12-2004, 08:53 AM   #1
Felessan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 1,005
Default Question

Originally Posted by Inmountains
the Native American, the African American, the Mexican American, the Jewish American, even the Texan
Why are folks obsessed with adding their own Prefix to their nationality? I never understood this. Im a first generation American, should I call myself a Scottish-American? This is an idiotic custom, to me. Aren't we all Americans?

Each to their own, though. Just curious on your thoughts.


P.S. BTW, Inmountains...this not a slam on you in anyway, please do not misunderstand. This was just something Ive thought on before, and you reminded me.
__________________
Felessan Oakhallow
Ginsu Stalker of Anlah 'Shok
Retired

"The things we do in life, echo in eternity!"
Felessan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2004, 08:59 AM   #2
Trith
The lesser of two weevils
 
Trith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Shreveport, Louisiana
Posts: 3,490
Send a message via MSN to Trith
Because it's not politically correct to identify yourself as "American". Libs hate it when we try to singularize our nationality. They prefer to use terms that force us to retain a false sense of cultural difference.

Inmountains was just being PC..and following the prescribed liberal naming doctrine for "Americans".
Trith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2004, 08:59 AM   #3
Lurikeen
Freaky
 
Lurikeen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,873
Felessan, Americans aren't the only people who do this. I have met people from England and Germany who also liked to point out their "roots".
__________________
"All I said was... that bit of halibut is good enough for Jehovah." ŚMonty Python's "Life of Brian"
Lurikeen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2004, 09:16 AM   #4
Wildane
Psychopath w/a conscience
 
Wildane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Hospitality State, asshole!
Posts: 10,540
Well, no matter where it occurs, it's a stupid practice. If you weren't born in Africa, you are not an African-American. Native American? I'm as native as anyone else that was born here. These PC terms do absolutely nothing to help stop racism and discrimination. How are we to be a truly integrated society if we keep on thinking of ways to seperate ourselves?
__________________
"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." - Umberto Eco

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson
Wildane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2004, 09:19 AM   #5
Lurikeen
Freaky
 
Lurikeen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,873
Wildane, can you please explain why it's a "stupid practice"? I am also not convinced that the terms are PC. I think people take pride in thier lineage. What is wrong with that?
__________________
"All I said was... that bit of halibut is good enough for Jehovah." ŚMonty Python's "Life of Brian"
Lurikeen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2004, 09:28 AM   #6
Valleycrest
Defrocked Irish priest
 
Valleycrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 659
How are we to be a truly integrated society if we keep on thinking of ways to seperate ourselves?
The American culture is an amalgamation of all of these cultures. I remember when the Mexican national soccer team beat the US soccer team. There were several Mexicans celebrating down in Huntington Park. Many people are proud to be Americans but are also proud of where they came from. If you are suggesting that we should not identifiy race or national origin of anyone, then I think that might be considered a stupid practice. How can we tell if minorities are being treated fairly when we don't know how to identify them?
Valleycrest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2004, 09:29 AM   #7
Wildane
Psychopath w/a conscience
 
Wildane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Hospitality State, asshole!
Posts: 10,540
Originally Posted by myself
These PC terms do absolutely nothing to help stop racism and discrimination. How are we to be a truly integrated society if we keep on thinking of ways to seperate ourselves?
I already explained it. How can you truly have equality if we seperate ourselves by title? And if it's just a matter of pride in one's heritage, why were so many outraged when someone nominated that white kid from South Africa for some African American award? What, he can't be proud of his heritage?
__________________
"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." - Umberto Eco

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson
Wildane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2004, 09:31 AM   #8
Wildane
Psychopath w/a conscience
 
Wildane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Hospitality State, asshole!
Posts: 10,540
How can we tell if minorities are being treated fairly when we don't know how to identify them?
If they are unidentifyable, how are they being mistreated for being minorities?

I know what I'm saying is highly ideological, but it sure would be nice if we didn't have a need for the term "minority" when it came to race.
__________________
"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth." - Umberto Eco

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear." - Thomas Jefferson
Wildane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2004, 09:31 AM   #9
bumbleroot
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 7,756
The only reason that anyone thinks this is liberals doing this and it is PC is because blacks tend to vote overwhelmingly democratic and they hear the term African-American being used. What they fail to realize is the term Cuban-American is used in South Florida often and they are predominately Republican down there. They fail to realize that Asian-American is used often and they are moderate. This is not a PC thing, nor is it a liberal or conservative thing. It is a thing of people trying to find terms that they can be proud of. If someone wants to call themselves something, where is the harm.
bumbleroot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2004, 09:34 AM   #10
Trith
The lesser of two weevils
 
Trith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Shreveport, Louisiana
Posts: 3,490
Send a message via MSN to Trith
Wildane explained it very well Lurikeen. America does not allow duel citizenship. You are American or you are not. I hate the practice of identifying people by some presupposed cultural heritage (when in all likelyhood they have never even visited or seen their "homeland")

African-American is a complete contradiction in terms. You cannot be both. In truth all the term African-American is is a PC way to say "black"...which I for the life of me cannot figure out why being black to some people is offensive. God gave you that skin color..wear it with pride. I've been referred to as "white-guy" before and it never bothered me. Sounds like those who refer to themselves as African-American may be ashamed of their own skin color.

I would call him simply an American. If asked to point the man out in a crowd I have always said, and will always say "that black gentlemen with the blue suit" for example....I guess I'm just not as hung up on supposed racial stereotypes as others.

/shrug
Trith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2004, 09:38 AM   #11
Lurikeen
Freaky
 
Lurikeen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,873
Trith, I didn't read where Wildane mentions "citizenship". Also, I simply think this entire "your either an American or you're not" is just a load of BS political posturing. A person can have pride in their roots and still be proud to be a citizen of this country. Why is that mutually exclusive?
__________________
"All I said was... that bit of halibut is good enough for Jehovah." ŚMonty Python's "Life of Brian"
Lurikeen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2004, 09:43 AM   #12
Trith
The lesser of two weevils
 
Trith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Shreveport, Louisiana
Posts: 3,490
Send a message via MSN to Trith
Because when you identify yourself using terms like African-American you are implying a false sense of origin or citzenship. How many "African-Americans" do you know Lurikeen who were born on the continent of Africa? Are you suggesting that a man's genetic features IE skin color, brow, stature, hair, etc are now supposed to tie him forever to a particular region of the world?

I can't understand why someone would want to try and tie themselves to a culture, heritage, area, geography that they in reality have 0% identification with..

My family came from England over 200 years ago and were dirt poor share-croppers in South Louisiana...might as well have been slaves. What am I? American...

again../shrug
Trith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2004, 09:44 AM   #13
Zephaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Williamsburg, VA
Posts: 68
I'm not saying I necessarily agree with this opinion, but for the sake of argument...

The reason for attaching a prefix is to make your cultural identity valid. When most people say "Why can't we all just be American?" what this roughly translates to is "Why can't everyone just be like a white adult males, because that's been how it's been done for 200+ years?"

If you're really interested in finding out why people feel this way and not just trying to start a troll-fest, you might make the time to watch The Color of Fear. It provides a provactive look at racial identity in America. While I don't agree with everything in it, it will challenge your notions of what it means to be of a race or be American. It's not exactly seat-of-your-pants excitement, so get some friends and the mind-liberating substance of your choice.

You might also take up reading some literature on Critical Race Theory. A good list of resources is is available here.
__________________
Zephaus Rootwine
The Appointed
65 StormWarden of Tunare
Check me out here or here.
Zephaus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2004, 09:49 AM   #14
Lurikeen
Freaky
 
Lurikeen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,873
Originally Posted by Trith
Because when you identify yourself using terms like African-American you are implying a false sense of origin or citzenship.
Origin and citizenship are two very different things. You are confusing the two.

I can't understand why someone would want to try and tie themselves to a culture, heritage, area, geography that they in reality have 0% identification with..

My family came from England over 200 years ago and were dirt poor share-croppers in South Louisiana...might as well have been slaves. What am I? American...
It is your choice to ignore your heritage, but calling others stupid, or somehow "unAmerican", for wanting to enjoy their heritage is simply wrong.

You still haven't demonstrated why recognition of one's origins (heritage) and their citizenship to the country is mutually exclusive of each other.
__________________
"All I said was... that bit of halibut is good enough for Jehovah." ŚMonty Python's "Life of Brian"
Lurikeen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2004, 09:53 AM   #15
bumbleroot
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 7,756
Because when you identify yourself using terms like African-American you are implying a false sense of origin or citzenship
Not citizenship, heritage.
I for one am an American-American. Actually a mutt, but I could really care less about what I am called. I don't call people by prefixes. If they are black I call them black if it is pertinent. But, because it seldom matters what race they are, I don't see where it would matter what they are called.
I also think that drawing distinction to your race in any way perpetuates stereotyping and segregational activities and thought.
bumbleroot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2004, 09:54 AM   #16
Vireil
Disturbing the force
 
Vireil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Emerald City
Posts: 2,711
I think it's a part of a natural progression towards the establishment of a single national identity for the country. People have traditionally been identified by their national origin in the US. We are now seeing a consciousness of the fact that whatever our origins, we are all Americans. It's merely reflected in the use of <insert national origin> American. I think it will taper off with time.
__________________
Vireil
Coercer
<Recovering>
Vireil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2004, 10:12 AM   #17
Hormadrune
Sociopathic bully?
 
Hormadrune's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: PA
Posts: 11,895
Besides, with all these national/racial prefixes going around, how do they expect us to continue crushing their native cultures and assimilating them into a homogenous global peopledom?

__________________
WoW-Ghostlands-US: Prae | Ăs÷p | Prolonix | Horm | Ulfhednar | Ă÷l´
EQ: Hormadrune <Retired> <OFS> <CoI> <Affy> <CE>
Hormadrune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2004, 10:18 AM   #18
Evelle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 234
I am native american. I like the term better then Indian because I am not nor are any of the people in my family tree from India. The term is based on a misconception made when CC thought he had actually found India.

My family personally is Lakota. That is the name they have always called themselves. There are three different versions Dakota, Lakota, and Nakota. They are differenciated by the different regions once populated by the group of native americans most often refered to as Sioux (which is a name given to this people by a different native american group, and one meant to be insulting).

I live in the area where my native american family lived and roamed for years. I live in Nebraska, so yes I have been to my "homeland" since it is still my home. I have also been to the reservation where my family once lived, most of us no longer live there though there might be some cousins left up there. I am not 100% Lakota, I am very much an american mutt, however I am more Lakota then I am anything else. I claim it ahead of everything else because it has had more of an effect on my life and how I was raised.

This is why I personally use these terms. I can't speak for any of the people of other racial backgrounds.
__________________
Evelle
Dark Priestess
Evelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2004, 10:31 AM   #19
Trith
The lesser of two weevils
 
Trith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Shreveport, Louisiana
Posts: 3,490
Send a message via MSN to Trith
Well Evelle wouldn't the term Black American be more fitting then instead of African American. I'm just using your same concept here that you pointed out so well about not being from India. Like I said earlier..I'm just not sure why calling a black man "black" and a white man "white" has become so offensive...

what this roughly translates to is "Why can't everyone just be like a white adult males, because that's been how it's been done for 200+ years?"
Not even remotely close or true. This nation is the only nation on the face of this earth that has ever been capable of the degree of racial tolerance and unity we have obtained. Granted we did go through some horrible growing pains, but regardless there is nowhere in Europe, Africa, or Asia where you will find the cultural tolerances you find here.
Trith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2004, 10:37 AM   #20
Lurikeen
Freaky
 
Lurikeen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,873
Originally Posted by Trith
Well Evelle wouldn't the term Black American be more fitting then instead of African American.
Not all Africans are black, Trith.
__________________
"All I said was... that bit of halibut is good enough for Jehovah." ŚMonty Python's "Life of Brian"
Lurikeen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2004, 10:43 AM   #21
Trith
The lesser of two weevils
 
Trith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Shreveport, Louisiana
Posts: 3,490
Send a message via MSN to Trith
And my point is not all Blacks like to be termed as African. I knew a guy I used to work with who got pissed when referred to as "African-American". He absolutely hated the term and preferred to be call simply "black".
Trith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2004, 10:47 AM   #22
bumbleroot
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 7,756
I'm just not sure why calling a black man "black" and a white man "white" has become so offensive...
Who said it is offensive? Just because someone prefers to be called something doesn't mean the other term is offensive. Let me give you an example. Calling George W. Bush without a title is not offensive but since he is president he is called Mr. President or President George W. Bush. As far as I know the only people that have called "black" offensive are the ones that have tried to create an issue out of this whole thing. Frankly, when I speak to black people and I call someone black, they don't flinch or double-think or say anything. If it offends them, I have yet to know.
bumbleroot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2004, 10:59 AM   #23
Lurikeen
Freaky
 
Lurikeen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,873
Originally Posted by Trith
And my point is not all Blacks like to be termed as African.
Not all people with black skin are African. I could see someone get rather upset if you called them an "African American" when maybe they are of Haitan descent.
__________________
"All I said was... that bit of halibut is good enough for Jehovah." ŚMonty Python's "Life of Brian"
Lurikeen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2004, 11:16 AM   #24
cnjmorris
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 925
The reason for attaching a prefix is to make your cultural identity valid. When most people say "Why can't we all just be American?" what this roughly translates to is "Why can't everyone just be like a white adult males, because that's been how it's been done for 200+ years?"
I don't agree. I don't think that national pride should be equated with bigotry. The freedom we have fought for displays itself in the wide variety of our citizens. I like NY, play to live here the rest of my life, but I'm not NY-American. I am a Christian, plan to stay one the rest of my life, but I'm not Christian-American. When it comes to my nationality I am simply American.

I know that some people view 'just American' as a way to be racist and remove any pride an individual may associate with their ethnicity. I personally think that if I was racist I would want them to distinguish themselves from me. I would be 'American', no dilution, just the pure thing... and they would be the lowly 'African-American.'
__________________

Catcen, Level 65 Beastlord.

Newbie for life.
cnjmorris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2004, 11:20 AM   #25
Kulani Autumnwood
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Pit of Despair (So. Cal.)
Posts: 554
Personally I think it's kind of silly... and if everyone insists on putting the little prefixes to identify thier hereditary roots... 5 generations later you end up with a Japanese-Chinese-Italian-Native American-German-Irish-Polish-African-Russian-Middle Eastern-Mexican-Indian-Spanish-Scottish-English-Tibeten American!

Now, wouldn't that be just a LITTLE bit absurd?

I'm not a german-irish american. My children (if ever I am misfortunate enough to produce any) would not be german-english-irish-polish americans... just Americans.

As a side note, this prefix-adding mania thats apprarently gripping the country is just as annoying to my mind as the morons who cram two breeds of dogs together, smush the names together, and try to claim it's a new breed. Theres no such thing as a dalmberman, or a schnoodle, or a labradoodle, or a cockapoo and theres no need to create such things as "mexican-americans" "african-americans" etc etc ad nauseum.
Kulani Autumnwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:37 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.