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Old 05-12-2004, 02:49 PM   #101
Lurikeen
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Originally Posted by Vulpes
I bet Nick Berg would much rather have had an 18" horse cock shoved up his ass than have his fucking head sawed off slowly while he screamed through what was once his throat.
I suppose we shouldn't ask why Nick Berg was able to go to Iraq to begin with? In fact, I guess we shouldn't think about the cause of why any US contractor is in Iraq right now.

If we had to think about it, then we might be prone to point fingers. What a pitty that we shut off our brains in order to tolerate the choice of a leader.
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Old 05-12-2004, 03:14 PM   #102
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I suppose we shouldn't ask why Nick Berg was able to go to Iraq to begin with? In fact, I guess we shouldn't think about the cause of why any US contractor is in Iraq right now.
How about I answer that? Because he wanted to? Oh, I know, fucktard, let's blame Bush for those guys cutting off Nick's head.

I think Bush is brilliant. The tactical/strategic war in Afghanistan would have been a nightmare, as illustrated by the Russians. Bush picked a winnable battleground by using Iraq. Who gives a fuck what excuse we used, he picked a battlefield to fight terrorists and take out Saddam at the same time, pretty fucking smart.

You once accused me of thinking too 'linear' Lurikeen. Well, where I come from, the shortest distance between two points is a line. You should try that sometime instead of wandering around in circles.

Fucking Christ people. If you didn't see the video, shut the fuck up. If you did see the video, and even try to make up any excuse/blame/reason for it, you are not a human being, you are a fucking mutant freak who deserves to be nuked with the animals that did it.

To answer the question about the fate of the human race. Think about it. If you watched the video, you know the things that did it aren't human. They have vowed to kill any 'infidels' who aren't like them/don't have their beliefs. That's us, humans.

I say we take off the fucking gloves, start doing what we need to do to survive. If the world doesn't like it, fuck em. If humanity has sunk to the point that ANYONE can agree with these fucking murdering animals, then the human race deserves to die off...WWIII would probably be for the best.

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Old 05-12-2004, 03:35 PM   #103
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Vulpes, you're very angry and it's clouding your judgement.

Iraq has been a place to manufacture terrorists. We invade, men take up arms against the invading forces and are deemed terrorists (funny thing is, in most cases when you take up arms against an invading force you are deemed a patriot /shrug), we kill those men and then say we're fighting terrorism. Ummmm, sure

Meanwhile, Afghanistan- which absolutely was harboring terrorists- is mostly on the back burner since it's a harder nut to crack.

Originally Posted by Vulpes
I say we take off the fucking gloves, start doing what we need to do to survive. If the world doesn't like it, fuck em. If humanity has sunk to the point that ANYONE can agree with these fucking murdering animals, then the human race deserves to die off...WWIII would probably be for the best.
You're not much on wartime perspective are you? If you pick fights with guerilla forces this is the shit you get yourself into. I'm not excusing the abhorrent immorality of such an execution, but we chose this fight. I'd like to think we're better than the people that cut that poor bastard's head off, but judging on your post and other's like it, I wonder if we might be just as barbaric after all.
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Old 05-12-2004, 03:47 PM
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Old 05-12-2004, 04:00 PM   #104
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How about I answer that? Because he wanted to?
Vulpes you don't even understand the question.
His question is rhetorical, not literal. In other words, what is the mechanism that allowed him as a private contractor to go into a war zone? In other words, why do we have private businesses and contractors over there in the middle of a war when we can not and do not protect them. We really should get our non-military personnel out of Iraq until it is secure.
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Old 05-12-2004, 04:12 PM   #105
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Brigiid made mention a couple of pages back of "what do they gain".

I could be wrong, but I believe that they're just rubbing our noses in it. It is commonly viewed by quite a few other nations that the U.S. does not have understanding or stomach for violence. We've got all this gory imagery in our media and in our culture, we rattle our sabers all the time, look for surgical, clean not-so-bloodshedy ways to conduct "operations" and whatnot.....

But in the end we don't have the will to spill blood in furtherance of an ideal or the sense of responsibility to know that we have bloodied our hands and will answer for it.

We spill blood to preserve status quos or to protect our interests. We don't have the united spiritual fervor to spill blood in the name of an ideal. But that, right or wrong, they have both the stomach and the responsibility to do so and own up to it.

And that we (the Western world) do not.

Violence is a tool, not an ideal. They are unafraid to use it as such. We sit here in message boards and argue about it.

Have you ever had someone threaten to kick your ass? And then not do it? And so you drop them with one punch? And then talk shit to their crumpled form? And how much did you respect them after?

And how many times did they torture themself with that image of you having pwned them, as inside they cry for retribution but don't have the stomach to find you and face you down?

No wonder people go postal.




Bottom line: If blood cried for blood and they knew without a doubt that we would mobilize and whoop ass for this atrocity, they wouldn't have done it. Or they would have done so praying for death and redemption, knowing they would be made to pay for the crime. You've heard of suicide-by-cop, right? You pull a cap gun on a police officer and he blows you away? But they have no such fear. We did not accomplish what we set out to do. We cried for blood at 9/11, we cried to avenge the dead, we cried to eliminate terrorism.

It's three years later. They beheaded that guy and taped it and sent it because they believe we're full of shit and don't have the stomach to see through our cries and our threats. And even if we do have the stomach, we argue amongst ourselves too much to be decisive.

I hope they were wrong.

But I'm really not sure.
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Old 05-12-2004, 04:13 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Vulpes
How about I answer that? Because he wanted to? Oh, I know, fucktard, let's blame Bush for those guys cutting off Nick's head.
/chuckle

Bumble is correct, my rhetorical questions were used to point out that Nick Berg (or any civillian) should not have been allowed in Iraq because it is a war zone. Should Bush be blamed? Oh, geez... that's a hard one... gimme a fucking break! Of course he is ultimately to blame! Who do you think chose this war? Who was on the flight deck of a damn aircraft carrier announcing the end to major hostilities in Iraq? Fuck! Who is pretending that there are only small pockets of resistance involved and making Iraq sound like a relatively safe place to go?!

Hate to break the news to you, but Bush & Co. aren't really going out of their way to send civilians home for their own protection!

If the US is going to see this through, then it is time to stop pretending, send our civilians home, and go to war. The more civilians that die, the harder it will become for the mission in Iraq to be declared a success. Who's to blame for that? The God damn Commander in Chief! Whether he wants it to or not, the buck stops on him.
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Old 05-12-2004, 04:32 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Théodwyn
But in the end we don't have the will to spill blood in furtherance of an ideal or the sense of responsibility to know that we have bloodied our hands and will answer for it.
Well I don't strictly believe that, we just live in different worlds. The West has no skill in grotty, morally/intellectually difficult police actions, we suck at it because of our cultural history (I was going to say we don't have the stomach but that's not true, it's really about the skill/understanding).

The West however is very much into the "big war". World War 1 & 2 and even Korea were wars on a scale the likes of which the Middle Eastern cultures cannot begin to comprehend. When we really fight we fight wars of annihilation with casualties in the multi-millions, entire nations are simply burned to the ground, this is what we (the Europeans, the Americans, even the Chinese and Japanese) understand. Our soldiers fight best when we know the enemy and there's no limit to the force we can apply. You didn't see the British or Germans pissing and whining as they vaporised one another's countries with bombs, it was just part of the war.

It's why the first Gulf War was so successful, Schwarzkopf got a clear set of orders with a single goal .... "No Iraqi soldiers are to remain within Kuwait borders". He was also fighting with the support of the locals, it wasn't a police action disguised as a war, it actually was a war. Gulf 2.0 is a police action and its going to suck forever and we're going to do badly at it because we're only really good at fighting real wars and this isn't one.
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Old 05-12-2004, 04:46 PM   #108
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Sooo... again, would you be willing to march into the villages and pop a few bullets into the heads of women and children? Just answer the question this time. I think you know that your answer will show your assertion, "If we go in and take out a village for one beheading, those guys will think twice before they try it again" is wrong.--Quote Lurikeen



Luri, if these guys are hiding there and civilians get hurt, that is collateral damage. If it saves the lives of Americans--saves them from getting their heads cut off, to me it is worth it. If you harbor these guys, you are no better. If these "mothers" keep their kids there, that is their lookout. My answer is the same--at some point if these guys are fighting dirty, then we will have to as well. It is all well and good to talk about how we are better than this and better than that, but when Americans are being treated like that, I say it is time to take off the white gloves and get serious, and go after the guys who did it, and yes, there may be collateral damage but if these people want to stay where these guys are, then that is their bad. If these guys are going to use kids as shields (as the chicken lame asses do) then they are the cause. It would be the same as shoving your kid in front of an oncoming car and then blaming the driver. In Fallujah, they dropped pamphlets warning of the impending action, if they give warning and these people don't leave, that is their lookout.
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Old 05-12-2004, 04:52 PM   #109
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But in the end we don't have the will to spill blood in furtherance of an ideal or the sense of responsibility to know that we have bloodied our hands and will answer for it.
Theo is right. We don't have the balls to do what it takes to win this war. We have half-assed it. Did we really expect to occupy a country and get zero resistance?
We are a nation of pussy gun-fuckers who hide behind their guns in fear of unforeseen criminals jumping madly from behind a tree. We fantasize about the term "Go ahead, make my day" yet when it comes time to be involved in some real action we haven't got a clue what we really are getting ourselves into.
We are a nation of Napoleonic idiots.

If you are honest, ask yourself this question....
How many of us expected the enemies to be cutting off our heads and videotaping it?
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Old 05-12-2004, 04:55 PM   #110
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Zaniel,

I agree with you. I wonder, though, if we are the same America that we were then. I tend to doubt it, I'm afraid.

Right, wrong, or indifferent, we had a unified will and a common moral/nationalistic fiber that allowed us to commit to World War II (when we actually committed to it, I'm sure that our European servermates may have something to say about the US stalling its entry to WWII).

We did shed blood in those wars, ours and the opponents.

But we also as a nation invoked the Declaration of War, and the power of its text, both in what it does and does not say; committed to what it implies.

We argue over our beliefs now, more than ever before in this nation's history.

Are we still capable of a full-scale national commitment to a war of scale? Do we have that kind of devotion? That kind of willingness to put our individual opinions aside and commit our blood and send ourselves and our children to kill and to die for those kinds of ideals?

I don't know.

I doubt it.

And it saddens me.

You're right, this doesn't seem/feel like a "real" war. It seems/feels like a police action. Shed as little blood as possible, make all the key arrests, in the furtherance of our best interest. We're not making the world safe from the Nazis and the Empire of Japan here. The world doesn't buy that line. Neither do our own countrymen.

And I think the terrorists know that. And they're rubbing our noses in it with snuff films.
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Old 05-12-2004, 04:55 PM   #111
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Sinical, you need to open up the Yellow Pages, find a 24-hour Clue Store and max out your credit cards.

You also need to figure out basic message board formatting if you want people to read your shit.
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Old 05-12-2004, 05:00 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Alauradana
It is all well and good to talk about how we are better than this and better than that, but when Americans are being treated like that, I say it is time to take off the white gloves and get serious, and go after the guys who did it, and yes, there may be collateral damage but if these people want to stay where these guys are, then that is their bad.
You are dancing around my question like a lawyer dances around questions they don't want to answer.

Let me remind you, you wrote, "If we go in and take out a village for one beheading, those guys will think twice before they try it again" to which I asked if you would be willing to pull the trigger on women and children. Now you respond with "collateral damage"!

Why don't you just come out and admit your remark was hasty and that you wouldn't be able to respond in kind to the actions of the evil men who took off Nick Berg's head?
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Old 05-12-2004, 05:21 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Lurikeen
/chuckle

Bumble is correct, my rhetorical questions were used to point out that Nick Berg (or any civillian) should not have been allowed in Iraq because it is a war zone. Should Bush be blamed? Oh, geez... that's a hard one... gimme a fucking break! Of course he is ultimately to blame!
Lurikeen,
You are one worthless pile of crap!

Leave it to you to blame Bush for a hard working peaceful man's death.
The ones to blame are the Enemy. Yet, you Just-Don't-care. How sad you are.

Allthough,
I thank god there are people like you in the world to wake up others
to the evil that exists. Including your worthless wanabe evil self.
Do you still think being evil is cool? Didn't your manly-lesbian-mother spank you enough?

If you ever have something patriotic to say about America, hell will be frozen.
You have posted nothing but hate for the last 4-years.,

How does it feel to hate for four years strait? Sucks when your only friends
are the people that agree with you online. Sucks huh?, Lurikeen?

You've Hated Bush for four years and you get no credit. How pathetic of a life you and
Bumble, Horm and others must have to know such hatred for one man, for so long. FOUR YEARS OF HATE? What a waste of energy. How wastefull your lives must be
to hate for so long. Pathetic! And being proud of your hate is even more Pathetic.

I don't wonder if you've ever known solace in your live. I know you never have
by the hate you spew. What a worthless life you must live.

How happy you must be Luri, Horm, Bumble. To spew such hate on a daily basis
without anything to offer "thats good" in return to society.

You assholes are nothing but users of society that are blinded by the rage
you yourselves will never be capable of understanding.

You make me sick. And you 3 should be very ashamed of yourselves for
ignoring your responsibility to give back to the world. Shamed yes.
You have no reason to be proud because you attack someone on a forum.

And you should stop acting like you've finally accomplished something in your
life with every bashing celebrating death.

Our brave American soldiers are fighting and dying, and you fucks belittle it into
a political bashing.

America is waking up, and you're the new enemy. Welcome to your own living miserable hell.

And you thought I had no idea about you fuckwads. Luri gave to much away.

Fuckin non-american assholes.




God Bless America
God Bless Freedom
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Old 05-12-2004, 05:26 PM   #114
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I did answer your post Lurikeen, you're bad if you cannot understand it. Collateral damage means people who get killed because they were in the line of fire. So, yes, Lurikeen, if women and children get hurt, and it saves our guys, absolutely. For once I agree with Bumble (OMG), we don't have the balls to go in there because we are trying to be gentleman in a country full of rats. Would I pull the trigger, no--I am not a soldier. Would I expect our soldiers to put a bullet in a kid's head--no, but I sure don't have a problem flying missiles into the areas where these guys are. We have sophisticated weaponry and we can hit one building that is targeted. If there are kids and women in there with the bad guys, oh well. As I stated before, we gave ample warning time in Fallujah.
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Old 05-12-2004, 05:35 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Alauradana
I did answer your post Lurikeen, you're bad if you cannot understand it.
Oh, sure, you answered my post, but refuse to answer my question. You are hedging around it because you know that you aren't the sort of person who can put a bullet into a child's head, or cut off the head of a person in cold blood.

If you personally can't do that, then how in the hell can you advocate that others do it in retalliation? You made a stupid statement and now you don't even have the guts to just come out and state it was hasty and likely given out of anger over what happened to one of our fellow countrymen.

I stand by my assertions, I think most Americans are better than the terrorists that beheaded Nick Berg. I have hope that our government and armed services would never stoop to their evil level.
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Old 05-12-2004, 05:38 PM   #116
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That is the most ridiculous logic in the world. President Bush probably couldn't pump a bullet in the head of someone else, but he is not paid to do that. Soldiers are trained for that hello!! I would never perform brain surgery on someone either but it doesn't mean I wouldn't advocate brain surgery on someone. I DID answer your question and you just don't like my answer, it wasn't hasty, it was my opinion and for some reason you think I am going to back down from it and I am not.
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Old 05-12-2004, 05:43 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Lurikeen
I think most Americans are better than the terrorists that beheaded Nick Berg. I have hope that our government and armed services would never stoop to their evil level.
You think? You hope?

Talk about leftist bullshit. Whats next Luri, You loving America?

You anti-American assholes suck. And you will always lose!


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Old 05-12-2004, 05:43 PM   #118
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After seeing the video, I'm rather glad they at least had the decency (don't think that's possible in this siuation) to at least do it quick and not toy with him.

Berg knew exactly what kind of danger he was in, yet he still wanted to help.

They know people that will give the biggest outrage can't do jack. I don't see Bush removed, our troops pulled out, going brutal in the coalitions tactics, whatever tickles your noodle. And the bitchin has gone on for how long? We are stuck watching this horrid show.
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Old 05-12-2004, 05:45 PM   #119
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Alauradana, your are full of shit. You know what my question was. I plainly asked if you would be able to put the bullet into the heads of the women and children of the "villages" you called upon to be destroyed in retalliation to what has happened to our people in Iraq.

There is no ridiculous logic here but yours. Now you want to hide behind, "I am not trained"?! Do you think our soldiers are trained to put a bullet into the heads of children? What's your fucking lame ass point now?

Fact is, that you got angry over what has happened to our people in Iraq (just as I am) and you offered an insane prescription for how to resolve future violence in Iraq.
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Old 05-12-2004, 05:47 PM   #120
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We are a nation of pussy gun-fuckers who hide behind their guns in fear of unforeseen criminals jumping madly from behind a tree. We fantasize about the term "Go ahead, make my day" yet when it comes time to be involved in some real action we haven't got a clue what we really are getting ourselves into.
Coming from a fucktard that doesn't even own a gun, that makes a ton of sense. Ever been shot Bumble? I have. Ever pulled the trigger and watched guts blown all over the trees? I have. Now, STFU, for YOU and people of your ilk are exactly what are causing so many problems in this country.

The ones who "haven't got a clue" are most of you fuckheads that said Bush didn't have to do this, or do that, or its the oil, blah blah blah. Bush has a goal. Elimination of terrorism. Period. Do you even comprehend what that will take? Nope. Why is Bush not attaining his goal? Mostly because of fuckhead pansy ass whining pussies who are afraid to actually do things instead of talk. They go around saying things like "oh no, we can't do that, <insert lame ass country> will be mad at us, or "we need to let some other fuckhead countries vote some more first".

This is war. We didn't start the fucking thing, although it seems many of you have forgotten that.
If you pick fights with guerilla forces
We didn't fly any fucking planes into a building full of innocents, now did we? Do you really think that the terrorists in Afghanistan aren't moving to Iraq as fast as their camels can carry em? So, by your logic, we should fight in the best place for guerilla warfare, so that we would be ensured of a protracted struggle, rather than actually trying to win?

Just because Bush chose a logical place to fight instead of Afghanistan, doesn't make a fucking bit of difference now does it? Think the terrorists go "oh no, that's the border, we can't cross it" I personally don't care what country it takes place in, long as it isn't this one.

Oh, btw, FUCK rhetorical questions. Why was he there? WTF does it matter? really, HE'S FUCKING DEAD NOW for no reason other than he WAS American. If the god damned stupid fucking congress wouldn't keep whining about military spending, we wouldn't HAVE to have so many civilian contractors in there. They are doing a job. Remember? Jobs? Those things that you guys made about a zillion posts whining about not being enough of?

Tards

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Old 05-12-2004, 05:55 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by Lurikeen
There is no ridiculous logic here but yours.
You're logic is whats fucked up Luri.

Originally Posted by Lurikeen
Fact is, that you got angry over what has happened to our people in Iraq (just as I am) and you offered an insane prescription for how to resolve future violence in Iraq.
And you offer an insane prescription of Bush resigning.

I'm also pissed off about what happened in Iraq. Only, I know we will have revenge
against the terrorists because they are trying to battle American troops.
And they are dropping like flies.

Are You as cowardly as the terrorists Lurikeen? Going after innocent people
who have no conflict in the 2-Wars America is battling? on a forum>?
Punk!

Or do you just sit and wait on a fucking forum to bash people who
don't agree with you?. Exactly. Have a fag Lurifuck.



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Old 05-12-2004, 06:23 PM   #122
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Do you think our soldiers are trained to put a bullet into the heads of children?

Yes, I believe that our soldiers are trained, its a thing called Basic Training and then they usually attend a school in their specialty. If they are a gunner, then yes, they are trained to shoot. If you bothered to read my post instead of trying to read things INTO my post, you would see that I was talking about using missiles--please enlighten the whole board, where did I say to shoot women and children? That is what YOU said.

The only reason you are running on about this stupid shit is that you are trying to make me look bad--well keep on trying, you are such a bleeding heart liberal, why don't you fly yourself to Iraq and go hang with your buddies in the video? Whose side are you on? This is what I said:

If we go in and take out a village for one beheading, those guys will think twice before they try it again. If they do, another village.

Did I say go in and kill women and children in the villages? No, I even went so far as to explain that I was referring to the way the Marines handled Fallujah--with missiles. You go ahead and keep on reading into things what you want, things that aren't there, you are pulling at strings, Lurikeen, you aren't making a point, you are making an ass of yourself.
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Old 05-12-2004, 06:34 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Alauradana
The only reason you are running on about this stupid shit is that you are trying to make me look bad...
I don't need to do that. You have accomplished that all on your own. You had advocated killing the women and children of villages (now you are back peddling on that) where you personally couldn't put the bullet to their heads.

I would say that makes you not only look cowardly, but also calloused to what our men and women in arms really go through.
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Old 05-12-2004, 06:40 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Alauradana
you would see that I was talking about using missiles--please enlighten the whole board, where did I say to shoot women and children?
If we go in and take out a village for one beheading, those guys will think twice before they try it again. If they do, another village.

Did I say go in and kill women and children in the villages? No, I even went so far as to explain that I was referring to the way the Marines handled Fallujah--with missiles.
We will be using our speshul new AECD Missiles(Avoid Embarrassing Civilian Deaths). This fancy new technology allows us to place a massive cluster bomb smack in the middle of these heathen's town square levelling the entire village whilst miraculously leaving unharmed women and children standing!! Coming next ... our ICSTBGWIPTFBSINMFHD Cannon (I Couldn't See The Bad Guy When I Pressed The Fire Button So Its Not My Fault He Died")

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Old 05-12-2004, 06:56 PM   #125
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