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Old 05-11-2004, 01:23 PM   #26
Lurikeen
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Originally Posted by Alauradana
If we went in there and cut off all the heads of the prisoners, I bet they would rethink their actions, but that will never happen because we are civilized and they are not.
Civilized nations don't engage in wars of choice precisely because of the brutality and carnage involved.
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Old 05-11-2004, 01:25 PM   #27
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Aularadana, the article you link does not state that this guy was harbored by Iraq. In fact it says...

Originally Posted by CBS News
He lived as a free man for a year, but the authorities in Iraq tell CBS News they put him in prison in 1994. After 9/11, President Bush put Yasin on a new most wanted list...

We all know that there is no 'missing link' between Saddam Hussein and his regime and OBL's Al'Qaeda.
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Old 05-11-2004, 01:28 PM   #28
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There are wartime rules Chiteng, it is called the Geneva Convention. American is trying to abide by the convention (I say trying because the prisoner abuses were a direct violation of the convention) but do you think the insurgents give a crap about the convention? US has to because of the UN--we signed that agreement. That is what I am referring to.
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Old 05-11-2004, 01:29 PM   #29
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Viriel, the link on posted on the latter thread DOES say that Iraq harbored him.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/i...iraq-wtc_x.htm

WASHINGTON — U.S. authorities in Iraq say they have new evidence that Saddam Hussein's regime gave money and housing to Abdul Rahman Yasin, a suspect in the World Trade Center bombing in 1993, according to U.S. intelligence and law enforcement officials.
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Old 05-11-2004, 01:34 PM   #30
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It also says...

Originally Posted by USA Today
Even if the new information holds up — and intelligence and law enforcement officials disagree on its conclusiveness — the links tying Yasin, Saddam and al-Qaeda are tentative.
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Old 05-11-2004, 01:37 PM   #31
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Again Viriel, as I said to Bumble, given Saddam's history and nature, why do you have a hard time believing that he was not a nice guy? I just pulled that site up off a search, it is enough for me. I am not gullible and I don't blindly trust. Here is a dictator who has committed countless atrocities and you have a hard time believing that he would be in cahoots with Al Queda?
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Old 05-11-2004, 01:39 PM   #32
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Saddam apparantly is your favorite dictator.
Actually I'm more of an Idi Amin guy.
I never said Saddam was not bad. I never said he should not be taken out. I said we should not have done it at the time and the way we did it. It was the wrong war at the wrong time and perhaps the steps that I and others said before this war seem more meaningful now.
The only problem now is that we are half-assing this war and that is the true mistake. We need to take a page from the General Sherman playbook.
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Old 05-11-2004, 01:48 PM   #33
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The nebulous coorelation between Iraq and Al'Qaeda is something that was created by the administration in the run up to the war.

I don't think that Saddam was a particularly nice guy, but that was a problem which would have been best solved by the Iraqi people, not the US.
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Old 05-11-2004, 01:50 PM   #34
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http://www.miami.com/mld/miami/3376031.htm?1c

Another website where I quote:

Yasin, born in Bloomington, Indiana, said he first met the two bombers in a Jersey City apartment and was talked into the attack as revenge for "my Palestinian brothers and my brothers in Saudi Arabia" and the defeat of Iraq by U.S.-led coalition forces during the Gulf War, the CBS release said.

Why do you suppose he is bombing the US for the gulf war? Has absolutely nothing to do with Iraq.

Some more interesting reading:

http://www.meib.org/articles/0106_ir1.htm

From what I have read there is enough coincidences that Iraq rather was involved, or knew and did nought. Either way I have no doubt believing that to be the case. It will probably never be resolved given the current state of affairs in Iraq.
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Old 05-11-2004, 01:51 PM   #35
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Had George W. Bush actually gone to war he may have understood the realities of war such as this. The only difference in the brutality of these terrorists and the VC is that these terrorists know how to use the media better.
It was John Kerry who saw the brutalities of war. He understood this. It was Colin Powell who saw the brutalities of war, he understood this. That is why these men are cautious about going into war. They understand what it really takes. Men like Dick Cheney and George Bush are learning this for the first time because they are inexperienced.
Seems to me like dragging a nation down to learn about war for yourself just isn't a good way to do things.
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Old 05-11-2004, 01:54 PM   #36
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So now you admit Al Queda is in Iraq ? I thought you said they werent there Bumble ? Are they there or aren't they ?
Faulty Logic. There were (And possibly are) Al Qaeda in several countries, the U.S. included. Let's invade Canada, The U.K., Germany, Spain, France...

Yeah... well maybe I wasn't kidding about France.
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Old 05-11-2004, 02:11 PM   #37
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Hey Cons.... welcome to war.

http://www.penrithcity.nsw.gov.au/Li...ng_15jul65.htm
this is a paper from 1965 note the following....
South Viet Namese soldiers cutting off the head of a Viet Cong guerrilla in a public square in Saigon
This is what war is, now that we started this war, we better be prepared to finish it and we better be prepared to do things that will lose us international favor, because that is what we opted for.
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Old 05-11-2004, 02:28 PM   #38
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Old 05-11-2004, 02:35 PM   #39
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Talk about faulty logic, Kerry voted FOR this war if you remember. Colin Powell was also in favor.

Why the post on Vietnam? This is not Vietnam. There is no similarity. The only thing I can surmise is that you think that guy deserved to have his head cut off because we went to war with a country that flagrantly violated all the resolutions that were placed against it, that tried to assassinate the president of the US, that invaded another country, etc etc.

This is not the same as Vietnam. It has already been pointed out dramatically in the press that Kerry is not gaining any points by trying to make the comparison, neither has he gained any votes by trying to undermine Bush's enlistment during the Vietnam war. I guess this is just spillover onto this board. Doesn't mean a thing to me.
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Old 05-11-2004, 02:41 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Alauradana
Again Viriel, as I said to Bumble, given Saddam's history and nature, why do you have a hard time believing that he was not a nice guy? I just pulled that site up off a search, it is enough for me. I am not gullible and I don't blindly trust. Here is a dictator who has committed countless atrocities and you have a hard time believing that he would be in cahoots with Al Queda?
Viriel is right. Out of the three of those links you posted, none of them said a single word to bolster your argument; as a matter of fact they all contradicted your assertion.

Al Qaeda hated Saddam because he used Islam to bolster his secular state and they considered him a hypocrite. Saddam hated Al Qaeda because they were Islamic fundamentalists, just like the ones in Iran that he waged war against for 8 years. He saw what happened to the U.S. backed Shah in the 1979 Islamic Revolution in Iran and didn't want that happening in Iraq
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Old 05-11-2004, 03:00 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Codsan
Viriel is right. Out of the three of those links you posted, none of them said a single word to bolster your argument; as a matter of fact they all contradicted your assertion.

Al Qaeda hated Saddam because he used Islam to bolster his secular state and they considered him a hypocrite. Saddam hated Al Qaeda because they were Islamic fundamentalists, just like the ones in Iran that he waged war against for 8 years. He saw what happened to the U.S. backed Shah in the 1979 Islamic Revolution in Iran and didn't want that happening in Iraq
Well you can agree Cod that never stopped Saddam from funding fundimentalists at least in Israel. Hamas has major funding from Iraq.

I think the arguement I would make is after Desert Storm Saddam tried to capitalize in being a regional hero, trying to get support for himself. Around the late 90s Saddam was in no real threat like he was before the fight with Iran. His power was solid and no Shiites would dare fight him.

Furthermore, Taliban may be Fundamentalist, but they are Sunni, just like Saddam. Just like Hamas. Both parties agreed on crushing any heresy from the smaller Shiite sect.

Osama was never a Saddam fan, but from his writings and speeches he scolded the west as being imperial because of Desert Storm. His view shows he didn't care if Iraq invaded another Islamic Nation, the true enemy was the US.

By all means, you are right in that the two factions are different... But they are a bit close than apples and oranges, more like to different shades of pear.
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Old 05-11-2004, 03:01 PM   #42
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Talk about faulty logic, Kerry voted FOR this war if you remember. Colin Powell was also in favor.
Kerry did not vote to go to war by ourselves. He voted to go to war with international support. Being that every other president sought that type of course he felt it would be similar, but alas W. Happens.
Powell was the lone voice speaking cautiously against going to war in the administration. At least in the upper administration.
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Old 05-11-2004, 03:45 PM   #43
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The best way to defeat terrorism is to pour pigs blood over the captured and force them to eat pork and to recruit pretty arab americans to appear in gang bang pornos with rich old white men.
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Old 05-11-2004, 04:14 PM   #44
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Have any of you arm-chair liberal-dictators had the balls
to watch the real video yet? Go see the war your against.
Ogrish. You find the rest.

Let me know how an independent contractor (in civilian communications), helping the citizens of Iraq deserves this fate.

I'm to pissed off to post anything else atm.




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Old 05-11-2004, 04:20 PM   #45
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I'm to pissed off to post anything else atm.
And to think I said Cons thrive on hate and anger.
Be careful what you ask for, you may actually get it.
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Old 05-11-2004, 04:31 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Zolmaz Zo'Boto
Have any of you arm-chair liberal-dictators had the balls
to watch the real video yet? Go see the war your against.
Ogrish. You find the rest.
Zolmaz, people don't have to visit the site you mention to understand the horrors of war. We don't have to see the brutalization and cold blooded murder of people to know that it is wrong.

It takes balls to stand up against any war of choice so we don't see our loved ones put into peril needlessly. Any nutless wonder can visit ogrish to get their jollies.
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Old 05-11-2004, 04:38 PM   #47
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Believe more would be against it if they were to see it. Guess I have compassionate fatigue now.
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Old 05-11-2004, 04:44 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by bumbleroot
And to think I said Cons thrive on hate and anger.
Be careful what you ask for, you may actually get it.
Fuck you bumblefuck. If you were near me I would be crushing in
your feminine face. But since you hide behind a computer I guess
your a big man.

You're a gutless coward and prove it with every post. Anti-war my ass.
You're nothing but a schoolyard pussy.

Still scared to watch the Video? You seem to have all sourts of
comments justifying the actions. Go watch it you fucking Coward!

And Fuck you too Lurifuck.




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Old 05-11-2004, 05:17 PM   #49
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Just watched good ole Ollie North on TV. He had a very good point. Where in the hell are all these organizations and countries, Arab and not, who condemned the US for the prisoner abuse? Why the hell aren't they screaming about this? They sure jumped on the prisoner scandal right away. Pisses me off how biased this world is. I could personally give a crap if we bombed Iraq to oblivion.

Go watch a show on Discovery Times about Terrorism Children. It interviews children of Muslims, of terrorists who claim that all Americans should have their veins cut, if you aren't Muslim you are going to hell--these kids are raised with hatred. I would never teach my kids hatred--I feel it right now regarding the murder that just happened, but my comments are to adults and on this board, never to kids--these people are just not that humane, they are raised on hatred and have no respect for human life. Probably just feel this way to recent events, but as of right now, I would not shed a tear if Iraq sunk in the desert today.
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Old 05-11-2004, 05:40 PM   #50
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We have archaeologists excavating civilizations from wee ago, figuring out their way of life, habits, another won't hurt. More work for me!

Did I just say that?!
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