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Old 05-11-2004, 04:07 AM   #1
bumbleroot
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Default Where is Congress anyways?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4947680/

During such a tumultous time why isn't Congress in session doing its job?
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Old 05-11-2004, 04:26 AM   #2
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And the OPED propaganda continues.

Question, what does congress have to do with iraqi torture and the deficit? Are they supposed to sit at their desk and pretend to be busy or make some reactionary policy just to say they were in the office doing something?
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Old 05-11-2004, 04:28 AM   #3
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Question, what does congress have to do with iraqi torture and the deficit?
Just presenting facts does not make this op-ed. You cons are obviously becoming more and more idiotic by the second. Chuk do me a favor. Go talk to a newspaper editor and ask them if this is an op-ed. Then ask them what an op-ed is. Until you see a writer say "I believe", presenting a story is not op-ed. It is the responsibility of the fourth estate to QUESTION policies. That is not op-ed. The fact that you don't like those questions doesn't make it op-ed. It means that the questions are out there and they are being raised.

Are they supposed to sit at their desk and pretend to be busy or make some reactionary policy just to say they were in the office doing something?
Ummm... yes.
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Old 05-11-2004, 04:52 AM   #4
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Ok, I can't seem to find the post, but it seemed to be the general concensus a few days ago that it is idiotic for Congress to hold a special session to discuss the topic of prisoner abuse. What is there to discuss? The soldiers are wrong and must be punished. Now it's the opposite?
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Old 05-11-2004, 06:56 AM   #5
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If I'm not mistaken it was the thread Zolmaz started that talked about the resolution they passed condemning what the soldiers did.
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Old 05-11-2004, 07:15 AM   #6
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What is there to discuss? The soldiers are wrong and must be punished.
You apparently are totally blind and deaf and dumb on this issue. If this was systemic then it was sanctioned by the US government. If that was the case than we are in direct violation of the Geneva convention and we have stepped into the realm of war criminals.
That being said, either we rectify it ourselves or we wait for our reputation to be worthless.
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Old 05-11-2004, 07:24 AM   #7
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Whats the outrage now? when i flip on the TV (RIGHT NOW) i see a senate hearing on the Iraqi prisoner scandal. Uh what was your complaint again?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119578,00.html
Put your OPEDs under the pillow tonight and maybe the Facts Fairy will leave you a real news story in the morning .;p
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Old 05-11-2004, 07:25 AM   #8
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I was under the impression our reputation was already quickly approaching worthless =D With that said, I do believe the perps should be brought to justice, but I thought an investigation was being done to find out how far up the chain this went?

-As a sidenote I have now been hearing that some of these practices were part of interrogation, possibly orderd from higher up. I have also heard that Britain is also sharing blame for this, and reacting (saw that when watchng the House of Commons)... and also heard (from the same show) that some of these practices were prohibited after the initial discovery of abuse, and before the media got a hold of photos. Any one confirm or deny this?

What has bothered me most about this whole thing is the shameless liberal left trying to milk the issue to obtain some kind of political coup (I don't think Rumsy should resign), and the cons using horrible moral relativism, saying that other countries do worse, why should we have to play nice.... even going so far as to defend what was clearly wrong, and to insult the entire Iraqi male population by questioning manhood and other such nonsense because they claim this was so harmless. I think rather than just accepting this was wrong, the cons will do anything, flip flop on any kind of morality, and the libs are willing to throw a valuable person to the country (Rumsfeld) to the dogs for politics. This is definitely an election year.
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Old 05-11-2004, 07:26 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Bumbleroot
If this was systemic then it was sanctioned by the US government.
That's right, if. You seem hellbent on this being a big conspiracy sanctioned by the US government. There is still the possibility that they were just being a bunch of asses of their own accord and the "higher ups" weren't paying attention or didn't know.

This is the 2nd thread now (at least) that you've started on the subject. You do get all wound up, don't ya?
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Old 05-11-2004, 07:36 AM   #10
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Now bumble, I know you're just waiting for the tapes to come out where Bush is heard giving the order to have Iraqi prisoners sodomize each other, but it's not gonna happen. Your obsession with ousting the current administration has really made you paranoid. Let me give you a little free advice: when the gentlemen in the white lab coats come a-knockin', don't struggle, you'll only hurt yourself.

Besides, our reputation is already shit for the most part and has been for years (long before G.W. took office). Whether we're capitalist pigs, warmongers, arrogant bastards, infidels, etc., our detractors don't need any more reasons to hate us and our allies know us better than to jump to silly conclusions.
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Old 05-11-2004, 07:55 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Everclear
the libs are willing to throw a valuable person to the country (Rumsfeld) to the dogs for politics
Yep- but not purely for politics.
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Old 05-11-2004, 08:03 AM   #12
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Uh what was your complaint again?
The Senate is doing hearings but nothing is being done by the Congress. They are also responsible for oversight.

And I would agree with Horm on this one. The reason for getting rid of Rumsfeld is not politics. It is to show that we have taken our actions seriously. If in any way this was systemic and he is to blame than Bush faces some tough choices as to whether to keep him or not.
As for the politics of it, I don't think Rumsfeld foresaw this, I don't think Bush condoned it. However, the actions of our treatment of prisoners has always been in question with Guantanamo and this could be pretty scathing. Bush will answer to the public on this, not to Senators. That is his battle.
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Old 05-11-2004, 09:13 AM   #13
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You wanna know where congress is? They are tied up in fucking worthless party driven hearings that are not accomplishing a fucking thing other than giving these democratic morons a place to grandstand.

End the 9/11 commission..its a waste of time..
End the Iraqi abuse comission..its a waste of time..
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Old 05-11-2004, 09:27 AM   #14
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I watched the last hour or so of the Iraq Abuse hearing and once again it was more grandstanding bullshit by the Dummycrats. The best part is them trying to claim all our soldiers are doing this to troops. Billary Cunton started implying that prisoners at Guantanamo were being treated in the same manor. Yay for no proof.
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Old 05-11-2004, 09:28 AM   #15
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End the 9/11 commission..its a waste of time..
End the Iraqi abuse comission..its a waste of time..
Why the fuck do you even vote? It's obvious that you would be happier with a King than a president. Congress is part of the CHECKS AND BALANCES. Go back to Civics class and listen this time.
Two of the biggest things that have happened to this country and you want to let them pass.
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Old 05-11-2004, 09:32 AM   #16
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It is to show that we have taken our actions seriously

Well.. I would prolly be considered a lib by some people on these boards, but to me this is ridiculous. To show WHO? We are prosecuting the individuals appropriately, losing a key figure during a time of war isn't making a point, it's shooting ourselves in the foot. I think what was done was wrong, but I am not so willing to bend over backwards to "apologize" to people who hate us, that I would be willing to oust Rummy. I am also not satisfied that Dems have provided enough reason to.....this coming from someone planning on voting for Kerry...we aren't all irrational.

Secondly, I disagree that Bush will answer to anyone on this. I can't stand Bush, but I don't believe he had anyhting to do with this. I wouls love to be able to join in with the Dems and say "We got him for this"... but it just isn't so. I don't believe the President was made aware of this until recently, when the issue was forced. I don't think he has time to micromanage, and honestly prefer that he doesn't.

I still believe there are shameless activities on both sides of the aisle here that are smokescreening the real issue. What was done was wrong... when a wrong is done in America, we have a justice system. I don't want our government to give in to pressure to throw someone to the wolves, especially during wartime. I don't like the war, but I also think it would be detrimental to the country as a whole to be so divided and to give the appearance of being weak and bending.
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Old 05-11-2004, 09:43 AM   #17
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If anything the lefties using this issue to make a political coup against Bush has backfired. Bush is in center of the spotlight acting very responsible and firmly against this sort of behavior. Meanwhile Kerry's campaign has been bumped to one of the last stories of a newscast, right next to the sausage lady retiring and the release of the new McDonald's Adult Happy Meal.
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Old 05-11-2004, 09:49 AM   #18
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If anything the lefties using this issue to make a political coup against Bush has backfired.
I don't think that has even been suggested. Bush is going to be hurt by this. That is because he is the president. It doesn't matter what is said or done- it is an embarassment to him. I don't think he is the target in this. I think the legislators are obligated to find out if there was anything asking for this kind of activities and at what level. We owe it to the sovereign people we invaded and to our own citizens to get that absolute truth out on this one.
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Old 05-11-2004, 10:25 AM   #19
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Heh you really thinking calling for Rumsfeld's resignation had nothing to do with Bush?
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Old 05-11-2004, 10:43 AM   #20
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Why the fuck do you even vote? It's obvious that you would be happier with a King than a president. Congress is part of the CHECKS AND BALANCES. Go back to Civics class and listen this time.
You know if you would take two seconds to actually follow the hearings Bumble you would realize what a sham they are. This whole hearing process is nothing but masturbation minus orgasm. What the fuck is the point of them? Of course you love them because your latte sipping buddies get to make assholes of themselves on national TV at the expense of my tax dollars.

Fucking idiot...
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Old 05-11-2004, 03:24 PM   #21
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I am betting that worse is done. We would cry ourselves to sleep every night if we knew everything that is done in order to "protect" our way of life.

I am betting that somehow, the perps that did this were in a screwed up fashion "getting useful information" or trying to.

That does not make it right.

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Americans are sheltered from war and death and we like it that way.

I am not surprised, and I am betting that a lot worse happens, and we just don't know about it. That being said, I still think we have higher standards for the most part. I bet they call in "Special" teams for this crap mostly.

Have a adopted brother in the marines. Made a career of it. We aren't allowed to know where he is most of the time. He isn't allowed to talk about it either, not even after. I daresay, I don't want to know sometimes. I know he's been sent on missions to other countries, and this during "peacetime." I shudder to think what happens during wartime.

And all so we can sit on our couchs eating Pringles and watching hockey and yelling at our President. The truth??? We will never know the truth, and most of us couldn't handle it if we did.

Gotta go - the black helicopters are flying overhead again....
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Old 05-11-2004, 04:16 PM   #22
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Heh you really thinking calling for Rumsfeld's resignation had nothing to do with Bush?
Yep.
Calling for Rumsfeld's resignation means us taking "Real" action instead of apologizing to the King of Jordan. For some fucked up reason, Bush thinks a simple apology will pacify the Arabs and prevent them from creating more terrorists.
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Old 05-11-2004, 06:15 PM   #23
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LOL Bumbleroot, please tell me how Rumsfield resigning would make things all better. The guy didn't know much more than anybody else until the pictures came out. The only thing he is guilty of is not sitting down with congress when all this came out. So what! The military had their reasons for that and good reasons I might add. It's already hard as hell for anybody to get a fair trial in this country because of leaks to the press.

I have always been against censorship, but here lately it wouldn't hurt my feelings at all if they policed the internet, took the media out of courtrooms and the media out of the battlefield. They're a bunch of shit stirrers with a political agenda and nothing more. If you think they are actually trying to keep the public informed you are sadly mistaken. They jump to show what helps their cause without ever hearing the other side of the story. If more people would bust the jaws and cameras of the media, this country would be 100% better off. Due process doesn't have a chance anymore.

Rumsfield isn't going anywhere. He's doing a good job. Blameing Rumsfield is like blameing a high school principle for a hazing that took place in which he knew nothing about. I think Liberman summed it up pretty well during the hearings. The only one that really showed his ass was Ted Kennedy and they finally had to shut him up because his time was up. Everybody else seemed to be respectful and asked appropriate questions.

Is it just you or do all Dems believe in punishing the innocent for what somebody else does? Gun control for instance. Dems want to ban all guns from private citizans instead of imposing harsher sentences on the ones that abuse guns. In this case, you want to fire the boss because he didn't babysit grown men and women well enough. The only people that should be punished are the ones that took an active part in the harrasment and after they are punished they should be given a frigging medal.
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Old 05-11-2004, 06:21 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Caelie
Dems want to ban all guns from private citizans...
It's "citizens", Calie.

Dems don't want to "ban all guns". Kerry is a Dem who hunts with rifles. I own a semi-automatic pistol. Are we through with false generalizations yet?

You say Rummy is doing a "good job"... really? What good has he done? Please point out at least 3 good things Rumsfeld has done.
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Old 05-11-2004, 06:24 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Caelie
I have always been against censorship, but here lately it wouldn't hurt my feelings at all if they policed the internet, took the media out of courtrooms and the media out of the battlefield. They're a bunch of shit stirrers with a political agenda and nothing more. If you think they are actually trying to keep the public informed you are sadly mistaken. They jump to show what helps their cause without ever hearing the other side of the story...
Couldn't agree more in fact every word... read minds do you?!
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