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Old 05-07-2004, 01:51 PM   #1
Lurikeen
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Default Iraq should have known God is on our side!

The abuse of Iraqi prisoners by some U.S. soldiers points to the danger of President Bush describing the occupation of Iraq and the war on terror as battles between forces of good and the "evildoers" of the world, religious leaders say.

Even before compromising photos of nude and hooded prisoners surfaced in the news media, some mainline Protestant and American Muslim leaders had criticized the president for a series of speeches that appeared to say that God was on the side of America.

"We question that kind of theology -- putting 'good' on us and 'evil' on the other,'' said Antonios Kireopoulous, the associate general secretary for international affairs at the National Council of Churches, the major ecumenical agency in the United States.

"Seeing these photos of prisoner abuse puts the lie to that,'' he said in an interview Thursday. "It shows the crack in that kind of thinking.''

In his remarks Thursday marking the annual National Day of Prayer, President Bush showed new caution in his use of religious language. "God is not on the side of any nation," he said during the White House gathering.

"He finds his children within every culture and every tribe,'' the president added.

Former President Ronald Reagan established the first Thursday in May as a National Day of Prayer. While the day is described as an interfaith event, it is primarily promoted by conservative evangelicals. Before the Sept. 11 attacks, President Bush often spoke of his Christian faith in personal, self- help terms, revealing how a conversation with evangelist Billy Graham and a "born-again" conversion helped him overcome a drinking problem and lack of direction in his life.

But in the aftermath of the terror attacks, Bush's religious rhetoric began to reflect what one noted theologian calls "American messianic nationalism.''

Rosemary Ruether, a professor of theology at the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley, said the president and many of his supporters on the Christian right speak of his administration as "messianic agents chosen by God to combat evil and to establish good.''

But that is not the impression given by the photos coming out of Iraq in the past week.

"They fly in the face of that kind of language,'' Ruether said. "There is something horrendous and contradictory in having all this torture come out of the very same prison used by Saddam Hussein's torturers.''

At a White House news conference Thursday, Bush continued his defense of U.S. troops in Iraq, calling them "honorable, decent, loving people.''

Later in the day, the president seemed to go out of his way to answer theological critiques of his religious rhetoric during his National Day of Prayer remarks.

"Americans do not presume to equate God's purposes with any purpose of our own,'' the president said. "God's will is greater than any man, or any nation built by men. "

Those comments come one week after "Frontline" aired a PBS documentary on Bush titled "The Jesus Factor.''

In the program, a top leader in the Southern Baptist Convention says Bush told him that "God wants me to be president.''

Before that, journalist Bob Woodward quoted Bush as saying that he didn't ask his father, the former president, whether he should invade Iraq, but that he turned instead to "a higher Father" for advice.

Earlier this week, the president's God-talk was criticized at a national convention of Bush's own United Methodist Church.

And at a news conference Tuesday in Pittsburgh, Bishop McKinley Young of the African Methodist Episcopal Church said Bush "is not the only one who hears from God.''

"We did not elect him as priest of the nation,'' Young said. "We elected him as president.''

The most controversial comments about God's role in the Iraq war have come from Army Lt. Gen. William Boykin, the president's deputy undersecretary for intelligence.

Referring to an encounter he had with a Muslim general in Somalia, Boykin said, "I knew that my God was a real God, and his was an idol.''

As for the war on terror, the general told a church group, "We are an army of God raised up for such a time as this."

The comments offended many Muslims, including Helal Omeira, the Northern California director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations.

Omeira also has been shocked by the abusive photos coming out of Iraq in the past week, but has urged his fellow Muslims not to overreact.

"Blaming Americans for the actions of a few soldiers,'' he said, "is the same as blaming all Muslims for 9/11.''

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...NGV66H4IU1.DTL
When you believe you are on a mission from God, there is no stopping ya!
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Old 05-07-2004, 03:05 PM   #2
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Jake: First you trade the Cadillac for a microphone. Then you lie to me about the band. Now you're gonna put me right back in the joint.

Elwood: They're not gonna catch us. We're on a mission from God.

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Old 05-07-2004, 03:35 PM   #3
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
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Imagine the USA with Christian fundamentalist suiside bombers.
Now imagine the USA run by Islam fundamentalist extremists.
Kinda takes the Fun out of Mental don't it.

Rock, paper, scissors.



Z..
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Old 05-07-2004, 06:12 PM   #4
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Which is why civilised countries strive to seperate religion from state.
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Old 05-07-2004, 08:12 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Sakkath
Which is why civilised countries strive to seperate religion from state.
Amen Sakkath, amen.
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Old 05-07-2004, 08:27 PM   #6
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
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Originally Posted by Sakkath
Which is why civilised countries strive to seperate religion from state.
How do you tell a population of 100's of MILLIONS, "in no way" can you use
your religion to make any decision in any vote! We are a free country, "BUT",

You can only vote as a lame sheep. YOU cannot vote if you're voting because
of your religious beliefs. THAT IS ILLEGAL! BE WARNED. You've been warned.

You civilians, are only allowed to vote without a conscience. No premise on your vote. Nothing!

ATTENTION, all Jews must report to your local police departments.
Christians, you must report to your local police departments.
The kind men in robes will escort you. They are your islamic friends. Fear nothing.
There is nothing to fear.

Dear public,
If you have arms please contact your local police or governmental dept., to
have them picked up immediatly. Non-compliance may result in death.
You have nothing to fear.

Soon we,
As a country,
Unified together,
Will determine,
your future. *Silence*

You will not be allowed to resist. *Silence*

We demand your compliance!

The alternative is DEATH!


*Shots ring out*
Citizens laugh all over America.
Then reinstate the Constitution of the United States of America.

Un-armed nation my redneck-fucking-ass.

Church and state? How soon before religion is placed second on the ballot
according to beliefs? There is no separation of church and state.
It's a liberal concept. DEATH TO RELIGION. And those who support any other then,
ISLAM! The rest of you shall DIE>!!




GOD BLESS AMERICA
GOD BLESS FREEDOM
Zolmaz Zo'Boto (Socialism can kiss our American collective 248-million asses, The rest can go to hell, and maybe they will)

Last edited by Zolmaz Zo'Boto; 05-07-2004 at 08:32 PM.
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Old 05-07-2004, 08:56 PM   #7
bumbleroot
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Zolmaz you are a closet revolutionary.
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Old 05-08-2004, 10:10 AM   #8
Gerick
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Zolmaz has it right, that is why we had guns
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Old 05-08-2004, 11:37 AM   #9
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Well.. as an example, I think Clinton could probably be considered an example of a president that did make too many religius claims. Now, that doesn't mean it's okay to try to boink the interns, but it does show you can gain support for initiatives without couching everything in terms of religion.

Once again as a sidenote.. imagine a Muslim state? Why? Are we supposed to compare to extremes and pick one? Rational people think at the margins, and that kind of talk is just radical scare tactics, IMO. Like saying "Well maybe Bush is taking things too far, but he could be doing worse, so it's ok". No, he should just not be claiming to be a crusader.
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Old 05-08-2004, 11:37 AM   #10
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*Clinton did NOT make too many religious claims -hehe oops
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