Erollisi Marr - The Nameless

Go Back   Erollisi Marr - The Nameless > NON EQ Stuff (Real life, other games, etc.) > Steam Vent


Reply
 
Add/Share Add/Share Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-07-2004, 10:01 AM   #1
Xanthaar
Toon Army
 
Xanthaar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Washington, United Kingdom
Posts: 234
Default Give them milk and cookies...

Just finished watching a (British) news broadcast which made me sick to my stomach.

An Iraqi man who was detained in prison was interviewed about abuse by American Soldiers. He made the following claims:-

Soldiers stripped a girl of around 12 to 15 years of age, beating her.

An Iraqi man was forced to run around naked, carrying full containers of water, until he collapsed with exhaustion. After this, the soldiers brought in a 15 year old boy who was hooded. On removing the hood, the boy went hysterical upon seeing the condition of the abused man. It was his father.

Soldiers regularly took photographs of the beatings and abuse, even having a competition. 'The winning' photographs would be stuck up on the wall.

I'm keeping an open mind on this. These events may really have happened. They may also be fabricated by this person because he feels bitter about being detained. Hopefully the facts will come out when this is investigated further.

But when you have the International Red Cross saying that they have been warning the authorities about this kind of prisoner abuse for around 12 months. (The red cross spokesman interviewed said that what went on was 'Tantamount to torture'), it doesn't look good at all.

And now Rumsfeild claims that there may be thousands of such pictures and even video footage has been found.

Bet the media has a field day with that if it ever gets leaked
Xanthaar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2004, 12:17 PM   #2
ShardmoonVer.1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 7,457
I have no doubt about the water thing. Sounds like the kind of unprovable torture a pissed off former high school football player might come up with. The naked thing is sort of a new twist.

Lets examine the reaction though out the Iraq.

Saddams sons roamed the streets and grabbed women up at random. Raped, beat, and murdered them.

/silence

Saddam routinely tortured and executed who ever it struck his fancy to torture and execute.

/silence

Some retarded GIs strip a bunch of prisoners down and make fun of them.

/uproar

Does any one actually believe the Irai's consider what the guards did as worse than what Saddam did? Of course they dont. The difference is the Iraqi population is now free to express their displeasure and are taking full advantage of their new freedom.

Iraq will never go back to the way it was, no matter how many clerics and radical sects pop up and try and take control. Once you have had the taste of freedom, its hard to settle for any thing less.

Wishful thinking? Maybe, but I believe the war in Iraq is already won.
__________________
If you don't have something good to say about some one, say it loud.
ShardmoonVer.1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2004, 12:30 PM   #3
Sakkath
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,026
Originally Posted by ShardmoonVer.1
I have no doubt about the water thing. Sounds like the kind of unprovable torture a pissed off former high school football player might come up with. The naked thing is sort of a new twist.
I'm reserving judgement on speculation; I'm sure all kinds of stories will come up, that's really why I welcome the inquiry into the full extent of the issue.

Saddams sons roamed the streets and grabbed women up at random. Raped, beat, and murdered them.

/silence

Saddam routinely tortured and executed who ever it struck his fancy to torture and execute.

/silence

Some retarded GIs strip a bunch of prisoners down and make fun of them.

/uproar

Does any one actually believe the Irai's consider what the guards did as worse than what Saddam did? Of course they dont. The difference is the Iraqi population is now free to express their displeasure and are taking full advantage of their new freedom.
Of course is wasn't worse. The problem is that there were 2 reasons the US admin gave for going into Iraq. 1) WMD, 2) Freeing the Iraqi people from oppression. After no WMD were found, that was pushed aside; and now these latest revelations make a mockery of the 'liberation'.
I'm pretty sure that this was just a small number of soldiers that let everyone down, but it's easy to sit here and be rational, if you're an Iraqi in Iraq today I doubt you're feeling very free or liberated at the moment.

Maybe, but I believe the war in Iraq is already won.
Oh dear. The easy bit was over a year or so ago; if you want to achieve anything, the war needs to be about more than a race to Baghdad.
Sakkath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2004, 12:44 PM   #4
Trith
The lesser of two weevils
 
Trith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Shreveport, Louisiana
Posts: 3,490
Send a message via MSN to Trith
These events may really have happened
They also may not have.
Trith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2004, 12:45 PM   #5
Xanthaar
Toon Army
 
Xanthaar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Washington, United Kingdom
Posts: 234
The coalition invaded and occupied Iraq because they are the 'good' guys and are going to 'free and protect' the Iraqi people.

That is why there is so much uproar.

And to suggest that this just harmless 'poking fun' is a gross understatement. This isn't just high-school style horse play. We're talking accusations of beatings, rapes, sodomy and murder here.

If this was any other country we'd be hearing phrases like 'War-Crimes' and 'Human Rights Violations', but this time 'round its 'move along, nothing to see here, it's all taken care of'.

Double-standard?
Xanthaar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2004, 12:55 PM   #6
Caoilfhionn
Erotic, exotic & a little psychotic
 
Caoilfhionn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sweet home......
Posts: 686
Send a message via ICQ to Caoilfhionn Send a message via MSN to Caoilfhionn
We're supposed to be better than this. We went in to free them from this horrible dictator who was torturing them, and then we torture them? What's the difference?

I too thought Hussein & his sons were horrible. But I really thought our countrymen were better.

I'm sorry, torture is not acceptable, especially when we went into that country under somewhat shady circumstances. First it was WMD, then it was liberating them and showing them democracy.

Yes, they now have the freedom to express themselves, it's just a shame that instead of saying "Thank you", they're showing us that they're no better off now than they were under Saddam's regime.

All they've learned is that nothing changes. They're still half class citizens.

Personally, I hope that after a full investigation everyone involved is prosecuted under the fullest extent of military and civilian law (if it was a civilian). They have plenty of proof...pictures, videos...what more do you need to prove a crime.

Lose your job, lose your benefits, spend some time in military prison, dishonorable discharge, the whole nine yards.

What our government has to do is show both populations, US AND Iraq, that we do not tolerate this sort of bullshit.
Caoilfhionn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2004, 01:25 PM   #7
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,040
Here's the link.
http://www.itv.com/news/623337.html
Suhaib al-Baz, a journalist for the al-Jazeera television network, claims to
have been tortured at the prison, based west of Baghdad, while held there for 54 days.

Mr al-Baz was arrested when reporting clashes between insurgents and
coalition forces in November.

He said: "They brought a 12-year-old girl into our cellblock late at night. Her
brother was a prisoner in the other cells.
The story is Propaganda by al-jazeera.

The allegations cannot be verified independently but Mr al-Baz maintains
psychological and physical violence were commonplace in the jail.
Imagine that. How could al-jazeera "not" support the claims by one of their
own journalists. *GASP*

The US military has said it will investigate claims by a former inmate of Abu
Ghraib prison that a girl as young as 12 was stripped and beaten by military personnel.
Propaganda. Expect more of this BS journalism.



God Bless America
Zolmaz.
Zolmaz Zo'Boto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2004, 01:29 PM   #8
Zelgadis
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 2,693
Send a message via ICQ to Zelgadis Send a message via AIM to Zelgadis Send a message via MSN to Zelgadis Send a message via Yahoo to Zelgadis
Those male soldiers get horny, they need their fix of sex while they're out there in Iraq. Where do they go for it? Fellow soldiers? Or maybe... Iraqi women!

Female soldiers, on the other hand, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want to get horny with the Iraqi guys.

Seems to have happened in every other war type issue our country has been involved in. O.o
__________________
Chamzel's Site
PSN Name - Cham-Zel

Serving one day at a time, for four-to-six years at a time.
Zelgadis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2004, 01:44 PM   #9
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,040
Zelgadis,
You're late for your next sex-ed indoctrination class.



Z..
Zolmaz Zo'Boto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2004, 02:50 PM   #10
Trith
The lesser of two weevils
 
Trith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Shreveport, Louisiana
Posts: 3,490
Send a message via MSN to Trith
If it's coming from Al Jazeera then it can be completely dismissed out of hand. Al Jazeera has zero journalistic credibility.
Trith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2004, 02:51 PM   #11
Lurikeen
Freaky
 
Lurikeen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,873
Originally Posted by Trith
If it's coming from Al Jazeera then it can be completely dismissed out of hand. Al Jazeera has zero journalistic credibility.
Them and FOX news.
__________________
"All I said was... that bit of halibut is good enough for Jehovah." óMonty Python's "Life of Brian"
Lurikeen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2004, 03:02 PM   #12
Xanthaar
Toon Army
 
Xanthaar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Washington, United Kingdom
Posts: 234
Hopefully it is just anti-US Propaganda. The US authorities claim to be taking the allegations seriously though and are investigating.
Xanthaar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2004, 06:04 PM   #13
Sakkath
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,026
Originally Posted by Trith
If it's coming from Al Jazeera then it can be completely dismissed out of hand. Al Jazeera has zero journalistic credibility.
It's an Al Jazeera journalist who is making the claims, though the story is being reported by the mainstream western media. I'd imagine you'd have 'dismissed out of hand' allegations from any of the Iraqis in that prison; and given the recent evidence, you'd have been wrong.

Originally Posted by Zolmaz Zo'Boto
The story is Propaganda by al-jazeera.
Prove it.

Given recent happenings, I don't think you can call it either way, and it's not like they need to make much up at the moment. Wait and see what the outcome of the investigations are - but I do hope you're right.
Sakkath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2004, 06:43 PM   #14
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,040
Originally Posted by Sakkath
It's an Al Jazeera journalist who is making the claims, though
the story is being reported by the mainstream western media.
No. The story was reported by al-jazeera first. Not by western media.
Our Liberal mainstream media is picking up every news source to promote political
bias against Bush because it's an election year.
Even if that news source lies.

..:: Quoting Zolmaz Zo'Boto ::..
The story is Propaganda by al-jazeera.
..:: End Quote ::..
Originally Posted by Sakkath
Prove it.
Prove what? That al-jazeera is a propaganda machine? Thats simple,
we kicked their ass' out of Iraq. Not enough? (now you'll claim American propaganda)
Find out for yourself. Here's a link Mr. Flip Flop. Have a search for the truth.
http://www.tapu.tk/ <-- That covers the world in major news. Have a nice read.
Let us know (unlikely) when you've caught up on the news for the last 2 years.

Originally Posted by Sakkath
Given recent happenings, I don't think you can call it either
way, and it's not like they need to make much up at the moment. Wait and
see what the outcome of the investigations are - but I do hope you're right.
They? Like, they say? Make what up?, like they make, "what up? Oh man.

Wait and see huh? There ya go,
The true pacifist in todays youth. Wait and see. All will be fine. 9/11 will never happen again.
And untill it happens to me?, I am against war. Period! And Bush is a NAZI.
Nice post Kid.



God Bless America
Zolmaz Zo'Boto (How do you argue with ignorance, when the ignorant refuse to find
answers to their questions on their own)
Zolmaz Zo'Boto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2004, 07:13 PM   #15
Everclear
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 6,910
Well there are pictures and evidence of wrongdoing. It just has yet to be seen how far this goes. I don't think it can be "dismissed" at all, and I think it is considered dispicable by everyone. I consider this a non-partisan issue, and more an issue of integrity and humanity.

Saying what Hussein did was wrong, in no way justifies this. Yes, what he did was worse, you claim there was no uproar? Are insane? We went to war, I would call that a reaction. The uproar this has recieved is just that, words. Until the investigation is done, and people have been punished (as I believe they should be), I think both parties should put efforts into aiding these people in being brought to justice.

We claim to be a nation of "values" and this just undermines what little credibility we have. Hearing about what happened made me sick. To think that these people did these things is just terrible. I do hope they are prosecuted to the fullest extent possible, and I don't blame Iraqi people for being angry about it. We have a large military force in their country and this make us look like liars. I probably wouldn't trust the US, if I was a Iraqi citizen. What a mess
Everclear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2004, 07:44 PM   #16
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,040
Originally Posted by Everclear
Saying what Hussein did was wrong, in no way justifies this. Yes, what he did was worse,
You certainly are the smart one Everclear.




Z..
Zolmaz Zo'Boto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2004, 07:46 PM   #17
Everclear
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 6,910
You certainly are the smart one Everclear

Way to pull out a piece of a statement and lose the meaning of the complete statement. I wonder, is that how you get your "credible" material?
Everclear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2004, 07:53 PM   #18
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,040
Originally Posted by Everclear
You certainly are the smart one Everclear

Way to pull out a piece of a statement and lose the meaning of the complete statement. I wonder, is that how you get your "credible" material?
You said it. You're responsible. Am I responsible for your words?
Or does the format of your post cover up your one single statement?
Is that how it works? Baffle and BS, then slip in a comment?

Nice try. I have no idea why you placed that in your Op-ed. But,
they are your words. Can you explain them? Or is it my fault for pointing them
out?. You seem angry that I caught it.

Hmm?




God Bless America
Zolmaz.
Zolmaz Zo'Boto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2004, 08:36 PM   #19
Deadscale
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,140
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...d=519&ncid=716

"I don't believe my sister did what was in those photos," her sister Jessica Klinestiver said. "Certain people told her what to do. I believe they were posed."

...

"When all this comes to light, she will not be depicted the way she's being depicted right now," he said.

...

England was described as a kind young woman who loves athletics and the outdoors and is unafraid to speak her mind. She joined the Army Reserve as a high school junior to earn money for college.

Family and friends showed reporters a half-dozen photos of England, including images from her senior prom and high school graduation in 2001.

"I just wanted to make sure you guys knew she was a human being," Hardy told reporters.
Just because she is a saint at home doesn't make her not capable of doing this. I know for a fact that my parents and family know me the LEAST.

Bitch did that shit now take some responsibility. If she is unafraid to speak her mind then she would have said something if she thought it was wrong...
__________________
I would like to extend to you an invitation to the pants party.
Deadscale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2004, 04:02 AM   #20
Trith
The lesser of two weevils
 
Trith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Shreveport, Louisiana
Posts: 3,490
Send a message via MSN to Trith
I don't think it can be "dismissed" at all
Everclear you really need to do a little research about Al Jazeera...you wouldn't even give it a second thought it you knew anything about them.

Them and FOX news
And CNN and the NYT.
Trith is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:04 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.