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Old 05-07-2004, 03:37 PM   #51
Martigan
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The US should implement a "debtor's prison" like they had in Bible times. If you could not pay back your debt, you went to debtor's prison, where you worked until all restitution was made. I'm not sure the type of work had to be done there, but it was enough to warrant a payday.

In some cases, if the debt was too large, you were made a slave of the one you owed money to...I don't agree with that option.
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Old 05-07-2004, 04:02 PM   #52
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune
Still waiting....
So am I Horm. You would think our Family Court Judges could be "just a little
more imaginative, then sterilization as an alternative for punishment. You think?

Oh no, I've had an Epiphany. RUN!

How about night school? Work during the day. Then instead of placing these
fathers in jail, make them go to night school so they can get a higher education
and thus, higher paying jobs.

High pay = more tax money = more child support = non-educated patrons of
society. These men aren't criminals. Their just to horney and have to much
free time after work. I propose a mandatory education for poor fathers having
trouble paying child support. Yes?

It's the children who come first. Isn't that the point of all this mess?

It's just an idea, Horm,
You're welcome to add anything positive, Horm.
Maybe you have ideas of your own, Horm.
I would like to hear them, Horm.
God bless you, Horm.



God Bless America
Zolmaz Zo'Boto (It's not the educated were talking about here. Trust me)

Last edited by Zolmaz Zo'Boto; 05-07-2004 at 04:05 PM. Reason: Horm
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Old 05-07-2004, 08:16 PM   #53
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I don't know that night school would be a sufficient enough threat to keep someone from committing a crime. Punishments aren't supposed to be convenient. Otherwise, what's the point?

As for whether or not they're criminals, I'm going to have to disagree with you. If they've been ordered by a judge to pay X amount of money each month and they're not in compliance, they are, by definition, criminals.
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Old 05-07-2004, 09:32 PM   #54
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
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Originally Posted by Brigiid
I don't know that night school would be a sufficient enough threat to keep
someone from committing a crime.
A man having children is a crime?
Is a woman having children a crime?,

Is a man considered a criminal for having sexual intercourse with a willing
woman and bringing life into the world?
You call that a crime?

Who is the criminal, the egg or the sperm?
Which donor is it?

Is the human reproductive system considered a Male Crime?

Punishments aren't supposed to be convenient. Otherwise, what's the point?
All men should be punished for being men. And women should what?, again?




You people have some serious considerations to ponder.




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Old 05-08-2004, 12:16 AM   #55
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A vasectomy is usually reversable, too. Get over it. He had a choice.. it's not one that he didn't already have, it's just a chance to have the procedure done and get out of more trouble. The judge was very generous in this offer. The alternative would simply be the same thing without the chance to get the operation... quit whining.
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Old 05-08-2004, 02:12 AM   #56
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Everytime Zolmaz posts I start to think that having children should be a crime... at least in his parent's case.
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Old 05-08-2004, 10:26 AM   #57
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On a vaguely similar note...

http://www.capitalnews9.com/content/...=33&ArID=73323
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Old 05-08-2004, 01:18 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Zolmaz
So am I Horm. You would think our Family Court Judges could be "just a little more imaginative, then sterilization as an alternative for punishment. You think?
I think sterilization is an excellent alternative to jail for these men who continue to father children and then refuse or are otherwise unable to pay their share of the care of the children.

Originally Posted by Zolmaz
How about night school? Work during the day. Then instead of placing these fathers in jail, make them go to night school so they can get a higher education and thus, higher paying jobs.
Who is paying for the tuition at these jobs Zolmaz? Funny how you come down so hard on welfare assistance in other forms and yet you want me (I assume you mean for this to be publicly funded since if the men can't/won't pay child support presumably they can't/won't pay tuition) to pay for the continued education of deadbeat dads?

Originally Posted by Zolmaz
These men aren't criminals. Their just to horney and have to much free time after work. I propose a mandatory education for poor fathers having trouble paying child support. Yes?
Actually, yes, they are criminals- hence the debate about sentencing for their criminal behavior. Perhaps a 30 day bid in the local jail might give them some perspective about keeping their cocks under control or at least using a rubber. They're also gutless nutjockeys who have failed their families in egregious ways. Call me old fashioned, but I believe a man (and it typically is a man failing to meet payments) should be able to support the children he sires.

Originally Posted by Zolmaz
It's the children who come first. Isn't that the point of all this mess?
Yep- the eventual goal is to dissuade potential deadbeats from endangering their children by refusing/failing to pay.

Originally Posted by Zolmaz
It's just an idea, Horm,
You're welcome to add anything positive, Horm.
Maybe you have ideas of your own, Horm.
I would like to hear them, Horm.
God bless you, Horm.
My ideas? Fair question, though I think I already stated I have no problem with the sentencing in question.

The Hormadrune "Pay up you deadbeat fuckstain" Child-support Plan

100% of child support due is taken as a pretax expense on the supporter's paycheck. If you are not making enough money to meet the prescribed support level determined by family court, you have the option of appealing that support level.

If you are self-employed you must furnish proof on a monthly basis that proper wage-garnishing has taken place.

If the supporter becomes disabled/unemployed then a similar proportion of those benefits are distributed to the beneficiaries.

If the supporter refuses to work then his or her assets are seized on an ongoing basis to maintain support payments and, if necessary, he or she is arrested and put in a federal or state level work program in order to meet their obligations- including the additional costs the state incurs due to the expenses involved in the work program. The supporter may petition to seek work outside the program and will be released on accepting a job which pays a sufficient amount to maintain support obligations.


Hardly a comprehensive plan- I'm sure I failed to account for all situations- but it's a start. Basically, it's a no-mercy sort of plan. It says "Meet your obligations douchebag or we'll force you to meet them."

Here's the thing though Zolmaz- you're assuming that most deadbeat dads *can't* make payments. I'm more inclined to think that they are *refusing* to make payments. I'm not sure how we'd find out who is right, but it seems to me if they can't make the payments then they would petition to have support levels adjusted.

Again- I have little sympathy for any guy who won't support his children. Gutless pussies who leave their kids to rot don't exactly hold a warm place in my heart /shrug.
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Old 05-08-2004, 02:17 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Zolmaz
So having children is illegal, And punishable? You actually think having children
falls into the same ranks as stealing? Holy crap.

Nice logic there cj.
Nope, having children is not illegal or punishable by law. Disregarding or disobeying a court order (the court order in question being the order to pay child support) is, at minimum, contempt of court. That, silly boy, is illegal and punishable.

Originally Posted by Zolmaz
All men should be punished for being men. And women should what?, again?
Nope. All men who fail to comply with court orders should, in fact be punished. Those who's failure to follow said orders creates a situation putting their own children at risk should be punished more severely than those who failed to pay their parking tickets. Women should be accountable to the same laws and strictures as men.

I know...don't try to correct any portion of a rant...but I just couldn't resist.

Oh - and here's my rant bit:

Originally Posted by Zolmaz
When the fuck are these BS judges going to stay out of our personal lives...Fucking family court judges. Nobody watches over this court system. They can throw you in jail and take
your children for any reason at all.
Yup, them durn judges best stay out of our lives, 'specially when we don't want them there 'cause we done been bad and don't wanna own up to it.

No oversight? Incorrect. Any decision can be appealed. "Any reason at all" = silly little things like endangerment, felony convictions, squallor...

So...I wonder if anyone is bitter because a famliy court judge decided something wasn't right in their life, and took action to protect some children...


- G

Last edited by Guitarista; 05-08-2004 at 02:27 PM.
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Old 05-08-2004, 03:23 PM   #60
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Guitarista pretty much covered what I wanted to say: It's not fathering a child that's the crime. Have 14 of the little buggers if you want to, but take care of 'em. It's non-compliance with the court-order to provide for those children that is against the law. In my opinion, night school would not be enough of a threat to keep someone from violating that order.

If it matters, my belief on this issue isn't gender-specific. I'm not just speaking up in support of the "sisterhood of women that are out to hurt or inconvenience men." I would feel the same way if we were talking about a deadbeat mother. You began your topic talking about deadbeat dads, so that's the path this discussion has taken. I personally don't think there should be any difference; deadbeat parents of either gender should be dealt with.

You can keep your "all women are out to get all men" doctrine. It's not true in all cases, and it's certainly not true in mine.
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Old 05-08-2004, 08:57 PM   #61
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I feel the bipartisan love.
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Old 05-08-2004, 11:59 PM   #62
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune
I think sterilization is an excellent alternative to jail for these men who continue to father children and then refuse or are otherwise unable to pay their share of the care of the children.
And the Mother? Horm?, You (Horm) have yet to address the Female aspect.
Are you pussy-whooped?, or a single mother child thats been "feminized". Yea,
thats the word.

Originally Posted by Hormadrune
Who is paying for the tuition at these jobs Zolmaz?
You mean tuition for education, "Hormadrune. Not jobs. I forgive your stupidity.
Anyway,

Good question Horm, but,. Didn't you know those educational programs already exist?
Indeed they do Horm. How do I know? Because i've attended them Horm. Yep, Between jobs.

It's true, "Horm. Did it cost me any money? Nope. Were they Government funded?, yep.
Am I black? Nope.. Was the classroom empty?, Yep. The class could have held
at least 20-30 more students. And it was a Government sponsored educational program
directed to anybody reguardless of education to learn management of
small restaurants such as Buger king, McDonalds, etc etc.

And for the uneducated, it was the perfect Government sponsored program.

Hormadrune,
Why are you so against education? I thought you would be for Education
since you're such a flaming liberal., Horm.?

Originally Posted by Hormadrune
It says "Meet your obligations douchebag or we'll force you to meet them."?
Your ignorance shines. Thank you for calling me a douchebag Hormadrune.
It certainly makes you look like the better man. And gives you Kerry points in any argument.

Originally Posted by Hormadrune
Here's the thing though Zolmaz- you're assuming that
most deadbeat dads *can't* make payments.
I've never assumed anything near that, "Hormadrune. And what you've stated is considered
a conundrum.

Originally Posted by Hormadrune
I'm more inclined to think that they are *refusing* to make payments.

I'm not sure how we'd find out who is right,

but it seems to me,
if they can't make the payments then they would petition to have support
levels adjusted.
Exactly Hormadrune. Here in America we Petition to have levels adjusted. WTF.
Just like in EQ. Yep. America is just like EQ. All you have to do is Petition.
You have America pegged perfectly, "Hormadrune.
*Holy shit this is too funny*

Petition. HAAhahahaaaa. PETITION! AAHHHahahahaaa Classic.
*Falls out of his chair* HAAhahahaaaahahaha BURP. Dammit, I burped again.

Say Hormadrune?, The Gm leaders in America are waiting for your PETITIONS!
Some people are so out of touch with the world.


God Bless America
Zolmaz Zo'Boto (I'll admit, Liberals are to much fun., just read their posts)
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Old 05-09-2004, 05:07 AM   #63
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I think several people (myself included) have already suggested that the same innovative solution be applied to the female half of the equation.

Zolmaz please, take five minutes out of your day to ponder that while you and 4 of your friends have been dicked over by some bitch, there are also 5 women in the area who've been dicked over by some asshole.

In other words, neither men OR women are entirely perfect... I'd say there are just as many (not more than, not less than) women who are blood sucking parasites as there are MEN who are blood sucking parasites.

In other words, being a human shitstain is not the sole property of one gender, race, sexual orientation, or religeon. It's one of the very few truely equal opportunity faults.
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Old 05-09-2004, 10:30 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Zolmaz
And the Mother?
The mother was not the deadbeat in this case Zolmaz. Surely even a retard like you could have figured this out- after all, you linked the story. The courts found that the father owed support for these kids. If you have a problem with that initial court finding then by all means explain why- but that wasn't the topic: we're discussing sentencing for this father's failure to follow court orders.

Oh, Zolmaz, just because I'm not a misogynistic cretin like you doesn't mean I'm feminized. I've always taken care of the women in my life: in my estimation that makes me far more of a man than you given your stance on these issues.

Originally Posted by Zolmaz
And it was a Government sponsored educational program
directed to anybody reguardless of education to learn management of
small restaurants such as Buger king, McDonalds, etc etc.
Somehow I sort of pictured you as the bloated night manager at a McDonald's. I won't go into detailed rants about the gross misappropriation of federal funds in subsidizing the fast food industry in this thread however. Glad to know we're training their managers though.

Oh, and get me a Coke bitch

Do I have a problem with education? No. To clarify, job training I have no major issues with. I would however have a problem with people getting college degrees based on their qualification as a deadbeat parent.

I'm still amazed though. As a conservative, you are always so hell-bent on personal responsibility Zolmaz. And yet here you are demanding handouts for the downtrodden deadbeat dads in our society?

<---This is rational thought








<--This is you

Originally Posted by Zolmaz
Thank you for calling me a douchebag Hormadrune.
I've called you far worse before, I'd think you'd be numb to it by now. And yes, if you are failing to meet child-support obligations then you are indeed a douchebag.

Lastly, a vocabulary lesson.

Originally Posted by Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Main Entry: 1petition
Pronunciation: p&-'ti-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin petition-, petitio, from petere to seek, request -- more at FEATHER
1 : an earnest request : ENTREATY
2 a : a formal written request made to an official person or organized body (as a court) b : a document embodying such a formal written request
3 : something asked or requested
If there's anyone out of touch it's you. I would guess I play a lot more EQ than you do and yet it's you who so grossly misunderstands the origin and usage of this word. Next time look it up before you embarass yourself.
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Old 05-09-2004, 03:01 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune
Do I have a problem with education? No. To clarify, job
training I have no major issues with. I would however have a problem with
people getting college degrees based on their qualification as a deadbeat
parent.
So deadbeat dads and criminals should'nt recieve an education?
Why don't you tell us a better idea besides Jail. Can you Horm?
I'll wait for your answer to the same question you asked me. Horm..



I thought you Liberals were all for government assistance to re-educate
criminals. heh, you never cease to amaize me Hormadrune. You should
read your newsletter more often.

Btw, it's not college. It's a Government funded education for innercity people.
Which btw, is paid for wether it's used or not.

Oh and yes, I did finish the course when I was 18. That was before
I went to Rice and then at 20 opened by first company in San Diego
while you were fumbling around in the darkness of liberalism looking
for a handout. Not that you would ever appriciate accomplishment.

So I guess it did help me. And you? Besides lashing out blindly you should
look at your own pathetic life. I suppose you do, and thats why your so
angry.

Why don't you stop being an asshole while you hide behind your computer Horm.
Your not impressing anybody, other then yourself.





God Bless America
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Old 05-09-2004, 06:04 PM   #66
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Just for reference, here is Kentucky's statute concerning failure to pay child support. 30 days is a *mandatory* sentence for a third or subsequent misdemeanor offense. Penalties for flagrant nonsupport are not listed, but fall under the Class D Felony category (1-5 years in jail and/or $1,000 - $10,000 fine).

http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/KRS/530-00/050.PDF
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Old 05-09-2004, 06:19 PM   #67
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It's sad when a father must go to jail for falling on hard times, and the mother
leaves him "on her own accord", to make their childrens father being jailed possible.

Welcome to Liberal America. Isn't family court a wonderfull thing?

Some of you boys here should'nt knock it. You may be next.
Don't think it only happens in the news.

http://www.mensactivism.org/topics.pl


Z..

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Old 05-09-2004, 06:38 PM   #68
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Some of you boys here should'nt knock it. You may be next.
I'm gonna have nightmares about boobs chasing me around demanding money, thanks.
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Old 05-09-2004, 06:59 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by FanonFaythunder
I'm gonna have nightmares about boobs chasing me around demanding money, thanks.
Try black robes.



Z..
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Old 05-09-2004, 08:21 PM   #70
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OMG, I agreed with Horm. I feel all dirty inside now.

The rest of this is sorta for Zolmaz, my favorite spaz.

On the education thing, I think it's a great idea, if it's just "education for inner city people". I don't think, however, that this should be listed as an alternative to punishment. I don't think you should make a benefit available to someone who isn't meeting the status quo. Benefits should be rewards for positive accomplishments, not for bad behavior. (My opinion on benefits inside correctional facilities is different. I'm just referring to this being the only form of punishment.)

What happens to your college educated man? He's not necessarily in need of night-school type education, so what do we do with him? Does he have to go to jail or do we find yet another alternative for him so that he's not convenienced? If you tell someone they can keep their extra $1000 a month, and the worst that's going to happen to them is that they'll have to sit in class a few nights a week, I'm afraid more people are going to choose that path, which still leaves children not being properly taken care of. That's effectively the message that this plan conveys.

I think you're making the assumption that people don't pay child support just because they don't have the money. I'm sure that's true in many cases, but not all. I'm sure there are people out there who don't pay child support just because they don't want to - because they want to spend it on something else, or because they don't like the mother of their children. Again, not saying this is true in all cases, but I know at least one guy in RL who continually screws his ex out of child support, and he makes damn good money. He just likes making her mad.


Originally Posted by Zolmaz
Why don't you tell us a better idea besides Jail.
Why should there have to be another alternative? A lawful order was given and he chose to violate it. People who truly want to find employment or "other means" to take care of their responsibilities will do just that. It might not be convenient. It might not be the lifestyle they want, but it's the cost for the choices they made. It's his responsibility as a man to help provide for the children he helped create. Period.
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Old 05-09-2004, 08:48 PM   #71
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..:: Quoting Zolmaz ::..
Why don't you tell us a better idea besides Jail.
..:: End Quote ::..
Originally Posted by Brigiid
Why should there have to be another alternative? A lawful order was given and he chose to violate it. People who truly want to find employment or "other means" to take care of their responsibilities will do just that. It might not be convenient. It might not be the lifestyle they want, but it's the cost for the choices they made. It's his responsibility as a man to help provide for the children he helped create. Period.
When an uneducated father cannot find employment, where is he to go? Jail?
Do you think every man in the world is educated? I know you don't, but it's a valid point.


Everyone,,
Not one person here has posted a valid concern towards the children discussed.
Why is that?. Are you so much better, that all you need to be bothered with is
the political slant of the poster?

There is "NOT" one post here concerning Children.

All of you assholes taking turns to bash me off the board have forgotten about
the underlying meaning of the post. The Children.

You all have focused on me. No thanks. I've given you many hints. In fact
i've even told you, "it's all about the children" but nobody listened.

Everybody just kept on bashing away at me, thinking it would make themselves
feel better if they bashed a conservative. Children? who are they?

Some of you should take the time to look at yourselves. The obvious was there
and everybody chose to ignore it. Children are not to be ignored. And Children
should never be ignored over a poitical agenda.


You've all proven that politics is more important then any child.



God Bless America
Zolmaz.
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Old 05-09-2004, 09:08 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Zolmaz
When an uneducated father cannot find employment, where is he to go? Jail? Do you think every man in the world is educated?
His responsibility as a father is not negated by his lack of education. There are few excuses for someone not being at least minimally educated by the time they reach adulthood. Whose responsibility is that? If he wasn't capable of dealing with the burden of fatherhood, he should have kept his dick in his pants. Again, we're not talking about your average guy that fathers one child. We're talking about a guy who habitually procreates and doesn't take care of his children.


Originally Posted by Zolmaz
Not one person here has posted a valid concern towards the children discussed.
Why is that?. Are you so much better, that all you need to be bothered with is
the political slant of the poster?

There is "NOT" one post here concerning Children.
Actually, all of my posts have been with the children in mind. They've been voiced from the perspective that the father should live up to his responsibilities and take care of his children. In fact, my biggest opposition to your educational program is that it provides a really weak punishment to fathers who don't comply with court orders for child support. I think the punishment (or threat of punishment) should be strong enough to make them choose compliance over non-compliance, ie: taking care of their children rather than ending up in jail or paying large fines.
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Old 05-09-2004, 09:44 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Brigiid
OMG, I agreed with Horm. I feel all dirty inside now.
Noone will hold it against you when the alternative was agreeing with Zolmaz (Admit it though- feels pretty good eh? )

Originally Posted by Brigiid
On the education thing, I think it's a great idea, if it's just "education for inner city people". I don't think, however, that this should be listed as an alternative to punishment. I don't think you should make a benefit available to someone who isn't meeting the status quo. Benefits should be rewards for positive accomplishments, not for bad behavior. (My opinion on benefits inside correctional facilities is different. I'm just referring to this being the only form of punishment.)
Yep- Zolmaz, if you read carefully you'd notice that I said much the same. I'm all for job-oriented educational programs. However, I'm not for educational programs that are designed to reward deadbeat parents with benefits they otherwise would not have received.

And Zolmaz, I wanted to thank you both for your "Stop picking on me" post earlier this evening and your latest foaming-at-the-mouth raving. Grade A comedy. I was gonna go to bed but it's going to be hard to stop chuckling at your expense.

Your propensity toward using "cunt" so often is probably part of why you've enjoyed such success with women btw Zol

Oh, and one last morsel:

Originally Posted by Zolmaz
Fuck kids.
What happened to your "It's all about the children" act?
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Old 05-09-2004, 10:26 PM   #74
Brigiid
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Mkay, I stand corrected.

Women and men should procreate with absolutely no regard to the children. Men should be able to fuck like bunnies and leave afterwards and never look back. If they do happen to get the woman pregnant, that's ok. They shouldn't have any responsibility. They're probably uneducated and unemployed, and shouldn't be inconvenienced by having to provide for the child they created.

If the woman has the nerve to take them to court for child support, she's a real bitch. The judge may rule that the man has to pay, but the man should only be expected to comply if he has money and an education. If he doesn't, he should just be left alone. Never mind the fact that it takes money and attention to raise a child. If the father doesn't have a job or feel like getting one, the burden should just fall on the mother. Hey, maybe instead of punishment, we'll give him candy! Or we'll do something to make his life easier! We'll send him to school (again) because he what, slept through the state-funded school that we offered him for the first 18 years of his life? We'll ignore the fact that the kid has needs, and we'll bend over backwards to help the poor, miserable, irresponsible bastard that got himself into this situation.

After all, the mother is made out of money. She has an endless supply sitting right there for her to draw from. I mean, she's capable of raising that kid and working the 2-3 jobs necessary to provide the money needed to buy his/her clothes, food, shelter, transportation, etc.

I guess that would be much more fair than expecting both parents to share in the responsibility of raising the child they both created. I can see where the child would benefit from your plan.

Calling me a closeted liberal cunt won't fix your problems, Zolmaz, and it won't hurt my feelings. I'm sure you felt like that was your ace in the hole and it would really put me in my place, but it sort of had the opposite effect. As someone who usually agrees with you (in theory at least) and shares many of your political views, now I just feel sorry for you.


Originally Posted by Hormadrune
What happened to your "It's all about the children" act?
I suspect it's more about "women who take advantage of undeserving, unfortunate, feeble men" than it is about the children, though I'm sure you caught that.
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Old 05-10-2004, 04:42 AM   #75
Wildane
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And if living conditions for the child is bad,
then it's the father's fault because he isn't either, "Paying enough", or behind on payments.
You know, when you hear of the cases where the father is behind on payment, that is because it is fact. If he is behind on payments, then yeah, he's at fault. If he isn't behind on payments, that's easy enough to prove. Either he's writing checks or he isn't.
How about night school? Work during the day. Then instead of placing these
fathers in jail, make them go to night school so they can get a higher education
and thus, higher paying jobs.
And just who is going to pay for this? If the guy can't pay for his own children, where's he going to get the money for night school?
Is a man considered a criminal for having sexual intercourse with a willing
woman and bringing life into the world?
You call that a crime?
Don't be ridiculous. Nobody is saying conceiving a child is a crime, it is when you neglect your duties as a parent that is criminal. The guy has shown a pattern of neglect and therefore should not be allowed to breed any longer.
These men aren't criminals. Their just to horney and have to much free time after work.
Those little scamps! How dare we hold them responsible for their own actions!!
And the Mother? Horm?, You (Horm) have yet to address the Female aspect.
Are you pussy-whooped?, or a single mother child thats been "feminized". Yea,
thats the word.
Coming from a single mother household, I take offense to that remark. My mother worked 3 jobs to provide for me and my two siblings. You are not worthy of drinking her bath water.

If the women were at fault in this case, I'm sure they would take the blame. But, in this particular case, the man is guilty, get over it.
Were they Government funded?
Is anything government-funded? No, it comes out of our pocket.
So deadbeat dads and criminals should'nt recieve an education?
Not as a reward for their criminal actions.
OMG, I agreed with Horm. I feel all dirty inside now.
I know how you feel
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