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Old 05-05-2004, 05:53 PM   #1
bumbleroot
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Default The first positive news

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/...ain/index.html

This is the first thing Bush has done right about Iraq in my opinion. Well actually its the second. Visiting the troops on Thanksgiving was the first.

I tend to think this could be spelling the beginning of the end for Rummy. He has pretty much been feeding Bush a line of shit for awhile. He is a smooth talker and I wouldn't doubt seeing him take the fall for this prison stuff. If he does, that would be a good strong message that Bush can send to the Arab world. And it would probably help our war effort if for instance Bush made Powell Secretary of Defense.
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Old 05-05-2004, 06:20 PM   #2
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Rummy is not going. I just don't see that happening.

Bush is right for abhoring the actions by these soldiers, but until he can do a Truman's "the buck stops here" or apologize like Reagan did about Lebanon, then he is just simply fucking up.
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Old 05-05-2004, 06:37 PM   #3
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
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Lets analize the story shall we?
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/...ain/index.html
At a private Oval Office meeting, Bush complained about learning of the
existence of photographs showing Iraqi prisoners being humiliated and degraded
from media accounts, the official said.
Private? How did CNN know? Was it a CNN exclusive in the OVAL OFFICE?
If it was, why didn't they broadcast this PRIVATE MEETING?!

Lies and Spin-101

"He was not happy, and he let Secretary Rumsfeld know about it," the official said.
It was an official Private Oval Office meeting between Bush and Rumsfeld and
other officials. So CNN got the exclusive on the meeting? By an unknown official?
WOW, That must be one very important official.

Who is this illusive official that cnn seems to discuss alot. (BRR) An illusive spy.
(Shiver)

More leftist CNN Media BS plain and simple.

Rumsfeld also made clear that he, too, felt "he didn't know some
things he should have," according to the senior official, along with another
official
OMFG. Now it's a senior official? With an acomplice? HOLY CRAP! Stop the presses!
We have colaboration within this story because someone made things up. AND,
it's backed up by another official. Both parties unknown. It's a secret. Shhhh.



WOW huh? Imagine a closed session, and CNN has the exclusive. And nobody else
knows a damn thing about this.



Nice post Kerry. You're only enbolding more people to vote Bush. Grats.
Give Clinton my reguards.



God Bless America
Zolmaz.
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Old 05-05-2004, 06:55 PM   #4
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Z- you are barking up a tree with no trunk. For some reason you can't believe this White House leaks. I can assure you that there are plenty of instances where it has done this. If I were to guess where the leak came from I would lean towards the State Department.
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Old 05-05-2004, 07:31 PM   #5
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
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Originally Posted by bumbleroot
Z- you are barking up a tree with no trunk. For some reason you can't believe this White House leaks. I can assure you that there are plenty of instances where it has done this. If I were to guess where the leak came from I would lean towards the State Department.
Where is the source? All I see is some liberal ingrate quoting ghosts named,
Official, and Senior official.

No sources. Ya think Bumbleroot? Maybe you can show me the sources in your
posted link..


SOURCES BUMBLEROOT!
SHOW THEM TO ME!

heh. too funny.




Z..
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Old 05-05-2004, 07:44 PM   #6
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Hmm. Lets analize your post for a moment. Shall we>? Bumbleroot?

Originally Posted by bumbleroot
Z- you are barking up a tree with no trunk. For some reason you can't believe this White House leaks.
Nope. Not this white house. Maybe FDR or Nixons.

Originally Posted by bumbleroot
I can assure you that there are plenty of instances where it has done this. If I were to guess where the leak came from I would lean towards the State Department.
So the state department. Ohhhhh hey, well that explains the private oval office meeting.
and the addition of other white house players into the office.

I didn't realize that the state department was so critical that the state dept.,
would be invited to private oval office meetings. Wow. You know,
in your little peon mind, you may be right!

Bush should be investigated over this story. Afterall, the media wants to run the fucking country.
And we should believe everything they say. Right Bumblecorpse?



incredible. All I can say is WOW. Other peoples kids. wow.





Z..
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Old 05-05-2004, 07:50 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Zolmaz Zo'Boto
Where is the source? All I see is some liberal ingrate quoting ghosts named,
Official, and Senior official.

No sources. Ya think Bumbleroot?
Using Zolmaz's remarks as an example... a "leak" is not a nameable source, but is quotable by news-sources. Such has been the practice of news throughout time.

Just because there isn't a "name" with the claim doesn't mean the claim is false.
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Old 05-05-2004, 08:00 PM   #8
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
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Originally Posted by Lurikeen
Using Zolmaz's remarks as an example... a "leak" is not a nameable source, but is quotable by news-sources. Such has been the practice of news throughout time.
So you give credit to made up sources, by the mainstream media?

Now thats a new twist on reporting huh? Say anything you want and quote
some rabbit named Henry. What the hell huh? Who needs sources anymore.

Next week lets just say, Bush met with Israel and passed America's military
power to Israel. Say's a source..

Fun huh? Source. Cool. Hell, I could make shit up all day quoting Henry the rabbit.

Originally Posted by Lurikeen
Just because there isn't a "name" with the claim doesn't mean the claim is false.
And it especially does not make it true. Dare you forget the rules of reasoning.




God Bless America
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Old 05-05-2004, 08:10 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Zolmaz Zo'Boto
So you give credit to made up sources, by the mainstream media?
You have some proof of "made up sources"?
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Old 05-05-2004, 08:26 PM   #10
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
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Originally Posted by Lurikeen
You have some proof of "made up sources"?
No. I'm to stupid to make things up.
But CNN aint as dumb as me. They got some invisible rabbit called henry
who were featured in a movie way back before we all was born. Honest.

Cnn said things that just wernt right. Yep. and they said things about
other people said who were non-existant. heh, I used a spell checker. har har har

I'd swear it be true. I seen the movie myself when tv came out. no kiddin.
Henry is invisible. Talk about a cool rabbit huh. damn cool if ya ask me.




Z..
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Old 05-06-2004, 03:24 AM   #11
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SOURCES BUMBLEROOT!
SHOW THEM TO ME!
Z- unfortunately you tend to beleive you know more about journalists than journalists do. Sources are not always named. The sources in this White House are almost never named until they quit their job. Paul O'Neil etc. There is a hatchet squad within. That being said, people whose livelihood or lives are threatened and those asking to be unnamed for reasonable reasons tend to require disclosure. We have shown this before. Sources have been ruined because of revealing their sources. Something showing a break in the command structure during a war is a serious offense. Any person showing this could very easily be at greater reprimand then you might believe.
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Old 05-06-2004, 03:30 AM   #12
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Its pretty obvious the people who release these 'tell all' books during an election year are only financially and politically motivated. Make more money during the election and maybe screw your old boss over for letting you go.
Neither are noble causes or should be heralded for revealing 'the truth' about Bush. If this wasnt an election year we wouldnt be seeing these books come out.
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Old 05-06-2004, 05:42 AM   #13
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Its pretty obvious the people who release these 'tell all' books during an election year are only financially and politically motivated. Make more money during the election and maybe screw your old boss over for letting you go.
Neither are noble causes or should be heralded for revealing 'the truth' about Bush. If this wasnt an election year we wouldnt be seeing these books come out.
Unfortunately your logic works both ways. I would venture to guess that Karen Hughes is capitalizing on an election year.
Here is something showing the release date of Paul O'Neill's book
http://hallamericanhistory.com/store...#39;Neill.html
I suppose that if you were to look at any release date you would disregard that and say the book was done to make money. There is also something called altruism. Books are done to right wrongs. Paul O'Neill's book most likely was finished in late 2003. He quit the administration in December of 2002
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...6/144302.shtml
Given that time of quitting O'Neill it would take O'Neill about 10 months to write his book. I doubt his book would have relevance after the election so releasing it late in 2004 would be irrelevant and to hastily write it and have it released in the Summer of 2003 would have been pretty hard to do. The release date of January of 2004 falls into an election year but pretty much before any electioneering. It also falls into a practical timeline of writing and releasing a book in normal time constraints. The primaries had not even started yet. It doesn't seem to be an "Election year book" or a chance to capitalize on an election year. If that were the case, summer of 2004 or around Labor day would have been a better release date. January 2004 is after all 11 months prior to the election.
On the other hand, Karen Hughes has had a full four years to write her positive spin on Bush. Its funny that she waited until last month to release her book. Could it be a chance to profit on an election year? It certainly appears to be more likely with this book than O'Neill's.
O’Neill served as deputy director of the Office of Management and Budget under President Gerald Ford from 1974 until 1977. Hardly a Democratic background.

Last edited by bumbleroot; 05-06-2004 at 05:56 AM.
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Old 05-06-2004, 05:46 AM   #14
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I hope those margins enjoyed it as much as you did, bumble.
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Old 05-06-2004, 05:51 AM   #15
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I highly doubt SECDEF or any person of real stature will lose their job over this.

There will be some heads rolling for sure, but they will be local to the incident. There will also be some bad Officer Efficiency reports, hehee...effectively ending a couple of careers. Other than that, real punishment will be confined to the participants in the event.

Thats my read anyway.
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Old 05-06-2004, 06:14 AM   #16
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This is again just another example of my problem with both sides of the political arena here in these forums. A source is good...named or not...only if that source is giving information out that YOU want to believe. If the source were saying what Zol wants to believe then it would be a good source to him...and Bumble would be disrediting it as non-existent or made up. Frankly I think both sides are liars and am tired of hearing about it at all.
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Old 05-06-2004, 06:39 AM   #17
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I have to agree with Felessan on this one. It will be more of a "damnint Rummy, why didn't you let me know this was going on sooner".

We have a handful of soldiers mistreating and intimidating Iraqi prisioners. Those soldiers are being dealt with, Bush has stated he doesn't like this any more than the Iraqi people, Brass in the military have given a public apology. I give this a week to be out of the news. Come on guys, worse thngs happen right here in America during a high school hazing. At least the soldiers didn't stick pine cones up their ass or anything like that.
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Old 05-06-2004, 06:59 AM   #18
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If found guilty, it would seem just that the soldiers are handed over to the Iraqi's after 30 June.
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Old 05-06-2004, 07:02 AM   #19
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The countries condemning the US for torture of inmates have done far worse things to their prisoners (especially fellow americans) and never say a word about. Its really only becuase AMERICANS are committing the torture on Iraqis that bothers them. Where was the outrage over Saddam Hussein's regime? They dont like us and our freedoms , simple as that.

I dont like Rumsfeld either but its not his fault the middle east hates us.
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Old 05-06-2004, 07:21 AM   #20
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Just for you, Z.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119156,00.html
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Old 05-06-2004, 08:00 AM   #21
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Damnit Veo- those liberal bastards at Fox News are at it again!
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Old 05-06-2004, 08:08 AM   #22
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We have a handful of soldiers mistreating and intimidating Iraqi prisioners.
The extent is not known. There were 25 prisoners died in captivity. There was only one died in the prison where the photos were taken. It would appear on the surface that the problem is much more widespread. There is also some rumblings that it is. There are numerous investigations.

The countries condemning the US for torture of inmates have done far worse things to their prisoners (especially fellow americans) and never say a word about.
Care to tell us....
A) What countries are condemning the US for torture?
B) What acts these countries did to US citizens?
C) How that justifies our actions?
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Old 05-06-2004, 08:18 AM   #23
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There were two reasons the US admin touted for going into Iraq:

1. Weapons of Mass Destruction
2. To free the Iraqi people from an oppressive regime

After it became clear that WMD were unlikely to be found, the US shifted it's stance to focus more on freeing the Iraqi people. What is coming to light pours scorn on this intent too, whatever their initial intentions were.

Of course there are people that will always be anti-US, but this kind of thing simply provides them with yet more ammunition and pushes moderates into the arms of extremists. It is becoming increasingly clear that the US military as it is, is not set-up or capable of handling situations like Iraq, which require brains as well as brawn.

The countries condemning the US for torture of inmates have done far worse things to their prisoners (especially fellow americans) and never say a word about.
Name one country not condemnig the US for torture of inmates? Even the US admin are condemning it, and rightly so. What has happened has a high possibility of causing great 'collateral damage' to the US and her allies.
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Old 05-06-2004, 08:36 AM   #24
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Name one country not condemnig the US for torture of inmates? Even the US admin are condemning it, and rightly so. What has happened has a high possibility of causing great 'collateral damage' to the US and her allies.
There is a big difference between condemning an act or condemning an entire country for that act. The middle eastern countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran , Iraq are condemning the US as a whole. No civilized country (including the US) who doesnt already have an axe to grind against the US is doing this. They know we dont condone or encourage such actions and that condemning the criminals themselves that tortured those prisoners rather than the country is the appropiate response.

Id like to smack the face of that smiling bitch and that grinning dumbass in the pictures for what they did. What the fuck did she think she was doing? You do a job, do it right or dont do it at all . Maybe im getting too old but what was so funny about what they were doing? Woohoo im in charge ill make you get into a naked pyramid. wow im so cool. here pose like a christmas tree, damn im clever..
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Old 05-06-2004, 08:53 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Sakkath
If found guilty, it would seem just that the soldiers are handed over to the Iraqi's after 30 June.

Fuck that.

The officers who agreed to that would never be able to lead again. They may as well put a bullseye on their back if that was allowed to happen.

The military punishes its own. Trust me...military prisons are not nice places. Especially since most involved were MP's.
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