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Old 04-29-2004, 06:42 PM   #26
Caelie123
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Chiteng people are still joining the military and unsurprisingly re-enlisting as well.
Is everything about money with you? Does your friend know you told everybody on a message board that he joined the reserve to get the extra cash?
I fail to see where this is such a serious issue that you claim it to be.
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Old 04-29-2004, 07:03 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by brigiid
I still fail to see what your actual point is here. Is it that your friend chose to do a job and you don't approve of it? Is it that the conditions of his job make it convenient for you to come here and bitch about the current administration?
I guess I fail to see the point as well. Has our military ever been taken care of? No. It's not like Bush came in and cut their pay and benefits. I imagine being in the military is like working for the Government as a firefighter, paramedic or police. Those guys risk their life everyday and get paid shitty wages. Most of the people in those positions do it for honor and the satisfaction of helping others. Sounds pretty much like our service men and women that volunteered to fight for their country don't it.

You liberals need to stop disgracing our heros at home and overseas by putting a dollar value on what most do out of pride and honor.

I still fail to see why Chiteng feels the rich need to take care of the lazy and useless. Mind boggeling to me. Let's see the burger flipper that works 40 hours a week should rake in the benefits of the guy who worked 70 hours a week to get at the level of pay he now receives.
I work my 40 hours a week, get my paycheck and go about my business. My boss, the President of the Southeast division is already at work when I get there and still there working when I leave. Many others that make a hell of alot more than I do are there still working with him. He has to travel and attend meetings at 7 or 8 pm after working all day. I think I will go in tomorrow and tell him just how unfair it is and I want him to give me some of his money because he makes way more than I do.

It's just stupid that people think the rich should be forced by the Government to foot the bill for those that choose not to work as hard.
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Old 04-29-2004, 07:24 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Caelie
It's not like Bush came in and cut their pay and benefits. I imagine being in the military is like working for the Government as a firefighter, paramedic or police. Those guys risk their life everyday and get paid shitty wages.
It's not like Bush has come in and increased their pay and benefits, at all! Are you familiar with the $10,000 dollar incentive being offered to our troops to resign up? Well, guess what they offered our troops back in the late 60s to resign? If you guessed $10,000 dollars you would be correct! Did $10k go further in the late 60s than it does today? I am sure you get the picture. So, let's not pretend that the Bush is doing our troops any favors or is doing right by them by any stretch of the imaginiation.
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Old 04-29-2004, 07:33 PM   #29
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Quote Bumbling Idiot: I didn't think my anger would resort to this but FUCK YOU ASSHOLE.

What do you mean you didn't think your anger would resort to that? You behave like that on a daily basis, please don't pretend surprise that the bumbling idiot resorted to swearing--GROW UP please! When you talk like that, it shows everyone your true personality, why try and hide it?

Here we go again, this has been done a million times on this board, you babies think that if someone makes more money they should pay for everyone else. Go mooch off someone else you lame idiots! I work my butt off for what I have and am not about to give it up to lazy people like you.

I cannot believe the idiocy of this thread. How can you not see that someone who paid around $3k in taxes would get a $600 tax break and someone who paid in the millions would get $100,000? If you have such a hard time making in life, get off the computer and get out your phone book. I am sure you can find many charities that would be willing to give you freebies. If you haven't figured out that a society that makes sure that everyone has the same money, same benefits, same everything is called Communism. See:

Communism
A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.

Go move to China if you feel so strongly that that is the way things are supposed to be. America is a democracy where people who work hard, or inherit, are permitted to have more money than others, are permitted to enjoy their money that THEY earned, and are not expected to pay the way for everyone else.

You need help if you think that America should change its ways after being formed a democracy many years ago. What would our forefathers think? They obviously didn't want that, what on earth do you think the cold war was about? That is the way of this country, get over it or you can leave--your choice. You can ramble all you want on this board, you know as well as I do that the majority of Americans are on the same side of this argument as me, and that your silly communist ideals will never hold.
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Old 04-29-2004, 07:48 PM   #30
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Alauradana,
This is an international board. It's to easy to see who the socialists are.
Just by the way they fight everything that is positive for America.

I once heard,
Without liberalism there would be no socialism, And without
socialism, communism cannot exist.

Looks like they're in for a fight, because Islam hates all sides.

Either the Liberals are sucking the fanatical Islam cock, or, they are willing to let others die
so they can reap the benifits of bowing down like sheep 5-times a day.

The Democrats are wrong either way. Makes you wonder who's side Kennedy is on
when he say's that Iraq is another Vietnam.


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Old 04-29-2004, 07:56 PM   #31
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Btw, Chiteng?,
Your initial post was written by yourself. I'll give you credit for trying to
pass it off as a post by someone that doesn't exist.

Any post credit is too much credit for you.

How much more pathetic can you get?



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Old 04-29-2004, 08:13 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Zolmaz Zo'Boto
I once heard,
Without liberalism there would be no socialism, And without
socialism, communism cannot exist.
Someone needs to brush up on their history. Homage to Catalonia by George Orwell is a great account of the Spanish Civil War, and puts a wonderful perspective on the attitudes of Socialists, Communists, the Liberal middle class (though Liberalism then is more equivalent to Conservativisim these days, in a lot of ways).

Monarchists spawned Conservativism as a hope to preserve Monarchies across Europe when revolutions became frequent, along with the idea of Liberalism. Marxism came to be many years later down the line, and while arguably left-wing, had nothing to do with Liberalism. In fact Marxism, and the Socialists and Communists it spawned, pretty much detested Liberalism as much as Conservativism, because Marxists were typically the working class that were continually screwed over by the Liberal middle class along with the Conservative nobles and monarchists.

More or less all political parties feuded, some being created in reaction to the power held by others. So yes while it is feasible to say that without Liberalism there would be no Socialism, and without Socialism there would be no Communism, the missing link there would be that without Conservativism and the Monarchists that originally pushed its ideals, Liberalism wouldn't have existed either.

Just for the hell of noting it, Fascism and Nazi-ism (Nazi being derived from the German term for Nationalism, a common foundation of Conservativism then) started as arguably left-wing parties. They simply shifted to the right in order to gain more support later on (for example the Fascist party wanted to limit the Catholic Church as well as grant all women the right to vote, two points it later went back on. The Nazi party originally formed on an idea of National Socialism as well, and then shifted right when most of the working class stayed with the Socialist party, rather than giving up certain ideals to join a Socialist party with a strong root in Nationalism as well).

Yeah I'm done.
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Old 04-29-2004, 08:41 PM   #33
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Quote Zolmaz: This is an international board. It's to easy to see who the socialists are.
Just by the way they fight everything that is positive for America.

/agree
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Old 04-29-2004, 10:35 PM   #34
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Are you sure you want to agree with someone who knows only of Socialism thanks to propaganda from Conservative America that tries to blacklist all Liberals as being Socialists?
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Old 04-29-2004, 10:44 PM   #35
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What do you mean you didn't think your anger would resort to that? You behave like that on a daily basis,
When I call you stupid that is because you are stupid. That is an observation. That is because you NEVER back up a fucking thing you say. Much like your God George W. Bush. You deal with Ad Hominem and conjecture and innuendo and everything that makes an argument false. I point it out. If you don't like it too bad. The truth hurts. However, this time I lower myself to a personal insult. When I call you ignorant it is because you are. That is not an insult. That is an observation. I could give a shit if you think it is an insult. It isn't. I could give a shit if I hurt your poor wittle feewings either. If you piss me off, I am going to tell you so. If you deserve insult I will do so. I have respect for some people who have differing views. I can get nasty and really nasty if I want to. I choose to get that way with you because you pissed me off with your idiotic ramblings. For some reason or another you believe because Georgie and Rushiepoo tell you to that being rich deserves ZERO sacrifice towards this country whilst others sacrifice. That is wrong you dried up cunt. Every other war we have been involved with has had an extra tax on the rich to help finance the war. This war however is sitting on the backs of the middle class and lower classes. That is wrong. It belongs to all of America and not the people who are the salt of the earth.
Since you are an idiot and can't figure out things on your own here is a little history of taxes on the rich during war.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...14-reich_x.htm
The estate tax — overwhelmingly paid by wealthy families — was imposed by wartime Republican presidents Abraham Lincoln and William McKinley. It was maintained through World War I, World War II, the Korean War, Vietnam and the Cold War. Now, the estate tax is being phased out, at least until 2011, as part of the tax cut of 2001.
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Old 04-30-2004, 12:49 AM   #36
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LOL, this from the mofuckin king of unsubstantiated, opinion-driven, "OMG BUSH IS LIEING!" posting. Yeah, I'll need a big grain of salt for that one.
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Old 04-30-2004, 06:08 AM   #37
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You Bumbling idiot, (my, my what an appropriate name you gave yourself) are the one who has shown your ignorance on this post. You say I don't back up what I say. I am sorry if you can't figure out how a percentage tax works, then you need to go back to elementary school. There are some things that are just assumed that the average intelligent reader would know. I don't care if there was a tax during war on the rich, I think it is wrong. That is my opinion. If everyone felt the way you do, the rich would be paying to support everyone. This is a DEMOCRACY, and that is how a Democracy works. The fact that America is not like that, is because it is not Communist. Get used to it or as I said earlier, move on, go to China or somewhere where they share your twisted views.

You say I don't back up what I say. Your theories constitute nothing more than Communism--I posted the definition. Get a dictionary, look it up. Another easy item that the average intelligent being would know. Are you saying that a society where the rich give to the poor so everyone is equal is not communism, that that is a democracy?

Who's ignorant here Bumble? The fact that you cannot control yourself and you need to back your posts up by being vulgar further shows the amount of ignorance on your part. Do you honestly believe calling me a cunt shows your smarter than me? Name calling is what little kids do to show off--a prime example you have set for yourself. On the other hand, I am glad that I have upset you to the point that you can't control yourself. Alot of people discount your ideas on this thread because you have on numerous occasions shown your true colors, as you have on this one, and feel you aren't worth the debate, mainly because you don't know how to effectively debate.
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Old 04-30-2004, 06:12 AM   #38
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If everyone felt the way you do, the rich would be paying to support everyone.
Can you explain to me then how it is right for the middle class and lower class to pay for everything while the Rich DON'T? You have zero logic- Hence STUPIDITY abounds amongst ye.
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Old 04-30-2004, 06:12 AM   #39
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Heh..feels kinda good when you own Bumble's ass doesnt it Ala and brigiid?
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Old 04-30-2004, 06:13 AM   #40
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..:: Quote ::..
The estate tax — overwhelmingly paid by wealthy families — was imposed by wartime Republican presidents Abraham Lincoln and William McKinley. It was maintained through World War I, World War II, the Korean War, Vietnam and the Cold War. Now, the estate tax is being phased out, at least until 2011, as part of the tax cut of 2001.
..:: End Quote ::..

By the way, read your own post, it says that this was imposed by these presidents, it was maintained until present. It doesn't say anywhere that it was put in place specifically for war. Yes, those wars happened during that time, but during that same time frame, there was more time that we weren't at war, how do you explain that? The tax was there since President Abraham. Do the math bumble, how many years were we at war and how many years were we not at war during that long time span??? See how ridiculous that is?? To tax on Estate is the most ridiculous tax set up this country has. So I earn money, pay taxes on it, then when I die the government gets to retax it again? HELLO--another tax in place by people who cannot stand anyone having more than them.
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Old 04-30-2004, 06:20 AM   #41
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Think how much more we could pay soldiers for their useful contributions if we stopped encouraging single women to get pregnant two or three times and live off government checks while still living with the man who got them pregnant. Can't get married because then the checks slow down or stop and then one of them has to actually get a job.

No, this isn't to say that all women are this way. Not even a large portion. But no matter how few it is, its crazy that our system encourages it.

I'm also noticing a trend here that republican doesn't always mean conservative... sometimes it just means selfish. I am registered Republican because the liar on my ticket is usually a lesser liar... but I am constantly surprised to find things out like the fact that a lot of repubs are against gun control and for the rich getting richer.

Who cares why this young man joined. I don't think that they should get rich but I also don't think that fathers and husbands should have to worry about bills back home while they are serving their country. Pay reservists less (while inactive) and people who are called up more. I don't mean more than while inactive... I know they get more while active. I mean MORE.
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Old 04-30-2004, 06:33 AM   #42
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Good god, how do you figure the lower class pay more than the rich? That has to be the most stupid statement ever. Back it up Bumble. Collectively there is more lower income people than higher income people so as a group they probably pay more, but one individual in a lower tax bracket does not pay half of what a higher income individual does. Go back to school.
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Old 04-30-2004, 07:04 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by bumbleroot
Can you explain to me then how it is right for the middle class and lower class to pay for everything while the Rich DON'T? You have zero logic- Hence STUPIDITY abounds amongst ye.

You are such a tool Bumble, where you get all your lies and falsehoods is beyond me.


1990 1995 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001

EFFECTIVE RATE
Single person, no dependents:
$5,000 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . - -6.3 -6.6 -6.8 -6.9 -7.1 -7.3
$10,000 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7.1 5.4 4.8 4.6 4.3 3.9 2.0
$20,000. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11.0 10.2 9.9 9.8 9.7 9.6 6.4
$25,000. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12.0 11.2 10.9 10.8 10.8 10.7 8.1
$35,000. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16.3 14.2 13.4 13.0 12.8 12.510.3
$50,000. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19.0 17.7 17.3 17.1 17.0 16.8 15.2
$75,000. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 22.3 20.6 20.1 19.9 19.8 19.7 18.4

Married couple, two dependents: 3
$5,000 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . -14.0 -36.0 -40 -40.0 -40.0 -40.0 -40.0
$10,000 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. -9.5 -31.1 -35.6 -37.6 38.2 -40.0 -40.0
$20,000 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4.6 -4.2 -7.1 -9.1 -9.8 -12.8 -17.8
$25,000 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6.8 3.7 1.6 - -0.6 -6.0 -8.5
$35,000. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9.2 7.9 7.5 7.3 7.2 4.2 1.6
$50,000. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11.9 10.0 9.8 9.6 9.5 7.4 5.6
$75,000. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . 16.5 14.7 14.1 13.8 13.6 12.1 10.5

- Represents zero. 1 Beginning 1999, includes refundable earned income credit. 2 Refundable earned income credit.
3 Only one spouse is assumed to work. 4 Beginning 1998, includes child tax credits. 5 Beginning 1994,includes refundable
earned income credit.
Source: U.S. Dept. of the Treasury, Office of Tax Analysis, unpublished data. Internet link <http://www.treas.gov/ota/index.html>.

Those are effective tax rates for the US. Show me where the lower and middle class (income wise) are footing all the bill please? Oh you can't can you ?
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Old 04-30-2004, 07:07 AM   #44
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hmmm lets see. Zolmaz, I never tried to pass off anything as not mine.
I take full credit for what I write. Again, you simply dont bother to actually read anything. That is NOT my problem.

Brigiid,
I dont play the personal attack game. I dont care who you are, what your morals are or really how you vote. Personal attacks are the acts of a child.
I treat you then as a child. Knock it off and debate the topic.
I never mentioned Bush. Not once.

The point being that our troops are being treated badly by our own government. That is shamefull. More important the public doesnt like
it when that happens. Sooner or later there WILL be a political backlash.
I cant say, WHEN, it will happen, but it will.
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Old 04-30-2004, 07:21 AM   #45
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Alauradana, I've posted a bazillion times why, even when they pay a lesser percent, the lower class still ends up hurt more by taxes.

It has to do with disposable income. Someone earning $10,000 a years can't afford to give up any of that and expect to remain self-sufficient. However, someone earning $100 million could give up about 90% of that and still wipe his ass with $100 bills.

I'm using extreme examples to illustrate a point, but I somehow think you're going to attack them anyway as being stupid. They are, I'll admit, but the logic stands, even if the numbers in the Real World are far less extreme.

It depends on whether you believe in a Meritocracy; that the amount of freedom and rights you have increases with your wealth or power. You can routinely catch whiffs of this in America, with celebrities far less likely to go to prison for a crime. Unfortunately you can't extricate it from capitalism, which is admittedly the only truly viable economic system in a democratic government. The real reason most celebrities get off better when they committ a crime, is because they can afford good lawyers.

So it comes back around to economics once again. Unfettered free-market policies will lead to a system where the rich enjoy total freedom, and the poor are oppressed. As government influence increases, the gap between the rich and the poor diminishes, not just in wealth but also in power. There is a certain point when government control becomes too extreme and rights are decreased on all levels, though, so the task is to find a good balance between laissez-faire economics and government regulation.

Which leads us further in a dizzying circle back to taxes. Through taxes, government can ensure the rich float their fair share of the bill; they are, after all, the ones enjoying the most freedoms in the meritocracy. As a result we backtrack to the wealth gap, directly decreased by government regulation. One step further back, the meritocracy is weakened when lower-class workers can begin to afford the same services the rich can. And finally, climbing back out of the digression within digressions, we return to my original point: taxation equalizes class boundaries.

I probably lost most of you in all that but I'm too tired to really clarify; it is essentially a justification for a system of increasing taxes, not for the sake of taxation itself but for the sake of equality in law, freedom, and power.

Finally, I want to ask a question. I've posed it before but nobody has addressed it, so I'll do it yet again in the hopes someone might be able to clear this up for me.

Why will people gladly go off to die for their country but go purple in the face when asked to give up a single dollar to the government?
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Old 04-30-2004, 08:36 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Ares
Why will people gladly go off to die for their country but go purple in the face when asked to give up a single dollar to the government?
Depends on where those extra dollars are going. If they want to raise taxes for better welfare programs, I have a problem with that. If they want to raise taxes for better education or better our military, I don't have a problem with that.
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Old 04-30-2004, 09:13 AM   #47
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I'll assume you mean that as an answer to my question, and address it accordingly.

You will pay taxes if you believe those taxes are being spent entirely on programs you believe are right. However, if you think they are being spent isntead on things you don't want the government to fund, you would opt to go out and get killed serving your country before grudgingly letting a few dollars go to waste?

Face it: taxes are always going to be funneled to corrupt systems. Attacking a valid social service isn't going to get you any points there, but try going for bloated bureaucratic budgets for example.

But people will still rather kill and die in combat than pay their taxes.
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Old 04-30-2004, 10:06 AM   #48
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This guy signed up for extra cash...and got something more than he bargained for. When you sign up for something, consider the possible reprocussions.

If you sign up to defend this country solely for money, you are making a mistake.
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Old 04-30-2004, 12:44 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Chiteng
Brigiid,
I dont play the personal attack game. I dont care who you are, what your morals are or really how you vote. Personal attacks are the acts of a child.
I treat you then as a child. Knock it off and debate the topic.
I never mentioned Bush. Not once.
Don't employ personal attacks, eh? Ok, I'll buy that. But referring to those who share your point of view as "enlightened" and those who don't as "unenlightened" makes you look incredibly arrogant, and like you're looking down on those who don't "have it all figured out" like you think you do. You might not out-and-out call someone a dumbass, but you're condescending and brash on a daily basis, and in the end, it's the same damn thing. Cut the holier than thou crap - you're no better than anyone else here, you just phrase your words a little differently.

I'll agree with you that personal attacks are the acts of a child. By that logic, everytime you talk down to someone and subtly attack their intelligence simply because they don't agree with your dogma or your methods, you're acting in exactly the same fashion. Welcome to the playground, Chit.

I do debate the topic at hand. I did respond to your particular gripe here. I just chose to respond to your sarcasm as well. If you don't like it, then don't include it in every single post you make. You calling me childish just makes me want to giggle.
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Old 04-30-2004, 12:58 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Brigiid
If you don't like it, then don't include it in every single post you make. You calling me childish just makes me want to giggle.
Sorry, but I can't help but note the irony in your statements. After all, it is my experience that preadolescents and young teens generalize the way you just have (I am not saying you are a teen or younger, or that my statement is true of all preadolescents or teenagers). I am sure we can find at least a single posting where Chiteng isn't sarcastic.

Anyway, please continue.
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