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Old 04-29-2004, 04:23 PM   #1
Chiteng
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Default Oh this is really fair

Too much is happening in the world, I can comment on it all =)

This is a serious issue:

Freind of mine served in Gulf War I.
He entered the reserves.

He was called up and sent to Afganistan, and then Iraq. He is still there.
I think he has been gone from home on the order of 20 months.

I asked him what his 'Tax Cut' amount was just joking. He said $545.
My adjusted 'Tax Cut' amount was $157

I asked my freind how it was going, his sole concern stated several times
was how his WIFE was doing, in the US.

I will get to the point.

This man, is not rich. No one in ND actually is, except the land owners and
retiries. He joined the reserve to get the extra cash.
He claims(and I have no reason to doubt him) that his estimated
benefits compared to WW2 vets will suck. Compared to Vietnam/Korea vets
will suck.

So we have a ower middle class white guy, being stressed by the war in Iraq.

His job in ND is gone. His employer could not keep it open so long.
His wife is a waitress. Keeping herself alive.

These are the men getting sent to Iraq.

According to the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities and the Tax Policy
Center......

They compare WHO got WHAT from the 'Tax Cut'.
For any millionare in the USA the 'average' tax cut was $123,600.
For Middle Class americans it was $647

So a reservist gets 600$ yeah USA.

How many millionares are fighting and dying in Iraq at the moment?
How many have been killed?

So its the old game:

The Rich get richer
The Poor get sent off to fight the wars the Rich start.

And the Rich, turn around and thank the Prez with $4k contributions
out of that 123k tax cut. I guess the Prez earned that.

In the 19th century ay least the Rich openly PAYED to avoid service.
Now they not only avoid it, but they get HUGE tax cuts as well.

I didnt make these figures up. You still sure this isnt class warfare?
Or you gonna spin me the refrain 'He knew the risks when he entered
the reserves'?

I am sure he DIDNT think that he was protecting rich people and their
tax cuts.
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Old 04-29-2004, 04:48 PM   #2
Alauradana
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Ok the logic here being what??? That someone making $20,000 should get a tax cut of $123,000? You forget to take into consideration that the guy who got a tax cut of $123,000 paid a hell of alot more than that in taxes--it is a percentage. I saw a really hilarious bumper sticker the other day the fits this post to a T:

Piss of a Liberal--Work, Be Successful, Be Happy

As far as the Reserves, I get tired of this story. "Well, I joined the reserves for the money, and now pity me because I gambled and actually got called." When there is no action going on, they make good money for not doing a whole lot. It is a gamble, if there is action, that is what the Reserves are for. What do you think we maintain reserves for? To pay for college and extra pocket money? They are maintained to give assistance when it is needed. He sure didn't complain about the extra money he was pulling in before he got called to duty did he?
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Old 04-29-2004, 05:09 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Chiteng
These are the men getting sent to Iraq.
Yes, these are the men volunteering to serve their country in Iraq. They weren't exactly kidnapped out of their beds in the middle of the night and sold into slavery. There's the "sad refrain" you were referring to. I guess if it's old and you don't want to hear it, it becomes a "sad refrain" and isn't a viable counterargument.


Originally Posted by Chiteng
I am sure he DIDNT think that he was protecting rich people and their tax cuts.
You're probably right about that. He probably thought he was going to go defend his country and get some decent fringe benefits. He probably wasn't looking for yet another way that "the man" is trying to keep him down. It's awfully hard to maintain the sort of caustic cynicism in which you dwell on a daily basis. Perhaps he's not quite so jaded.

Once again, government is always wrong, and you are here to point it out for us. What would we ever do without your services?
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Old 04-29-2004, 05:15 PM   #4
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They weren't exactly kidnapped out of their beds in the middle of the night
Hate it when that happens

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Old 04-29-2004, 05:19 PM   #5
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Ok the logic here being what??? That someone making $20,000 should get a tax cut of $123,000? You forget to take into consideration that the guy who got a tax cut of $123,000 paid a hell of alot more than that in taxes--it is a percentage. I saw a really hilarious bumper sticker the other day the fits this post to a T:

********************************************************
And I care why? The rich can AFFORD to pay more. That is the essential
difference.

I didnt think any of the EM Board conservatives would have anything usefull to say =) You didnt dissappoint me =)

But it IS class warfare, you might want to recall 1792 =)
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Old 04-29-2004, 05:20 PM   #6
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Chiteng made this crap up. And It wasn't even convincing.
Nice try Chiteng.

Chiteng doesn't even live in the USA. Nuff Said.



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Old 04-29-2004, 05:22 PM   #7
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Really? Try web searching the source listed Zolmaz. I didnt make it up =)
Typical of you to call someone a liar when you have no effective retort.
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Old 04-29-2004, 05:27 PM   #8
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There are no surprises in your initial post Chiteng. You and I both know that the priveledged class in America doesn't have to go to war. In fact, it is a rare exception that men like John F. Kennedy and George W. Bush, Sr. actually go to war and rub shoulders with those on the front lines being shot at as equals.

Soldiers in this country are not at all well treated for the jobs they do. They are severly under-paid and under-geared. In Tacoma, Washington a grunt had his truck stolen with all his gear just a few weaks prior to his deployment to Iraq. The poor guy had to pay for new gear out of his own pocket! That is not right!

Also, take a look at the big contractor Halliburton sucking down our tax dollars while short changing our troops in the field. Everybody knows that Halliburton is getting a nice fat check out of the $80bn spent on Iraqi reconstruction, but why do they have to short change our men and women in uniform? Makes no sense to me.
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Old 04-29-2004, 05:29 PM   #9
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the guy who got a tax cut of $123,000 paid a hell of alot more than that in taxes--it is a percentage
I didn't think my anger would resort to this but FUCK YOU ASSHOLE. This fucker is putting his life and his entire future on the line so fuckers like Bush and Cheney and all of their rich benefactors can keep getting tax cuts. So rich fuckers can keep getting money. That only MONEY you fucking twat-brain. Money is barely as precious as life is and this guy is putting everything on the line as is his wife. Meanwhile your greedy fucking friends don't want to give up any precious money. Greed is not good you cocksucking cumstain.

Ben Stein said what I think was the most appropriate thing and I hope it happens. He stated to take 10k back in taxes from the upper wealthy 1% and give that to each soldier. I think it would only be appropriate.

Let the rich fuckers put their kids on the line.
There are 7 legislative members who have kids serving in Iraq. That's 7 out of 535 or to put it more clearly 1 out of 76 members.
http://web.naplesnews.com/03/04/naples/d930340a.htm
There is a disconnect with reality for Congress and the President. Nobody that pushed for this war has a family stake in it. The need to wake up and face reality instead of playing war with other people's families.
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Old 04-29-2004, 05:33 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Chiteng
And I care why? The rich can AFFORD to pay more. That is the essential difference.
And the government cares why? They can afford to pay. Why should they care about the little man? Seriously, Chit, can you not see the double standards you set?


Originally Posted by Chiteng
I didnt think any of the EM Board conservatives would have anything usefull to say =) You didnt dissappoint me =)
Useful is relative. And as usual, you never fail to disappoint either. Can't you just change your sig to say something like:


Bitter old man sits in the boonies looking for conspiracies and black choppers. Whatever you say doesn't matter because in my reality, I'm the one that's right, and you're the one that's misguided. Nothing is ever my fault, and I'll find some way to make it someone else's. Magister sucks (especially Chuk!) and I'd give my left nut to blow Hothgar, Nuldar, and maybe Ogmuk if I'm feelin frisky. Oh, and if you don't like what I have to say, that's ok. Your opinion doesn't matter to me anyway.
At least you'd save yourself a lot of time posting the same ol' tripe every 20 minutes, and that covers most of your favorite posting topics.

Of course, you'd have to
customize it to
include those random carriage
return things you
like to do and maybe add
one of those cute
=)
thing's you're so fond of.
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Last edited by Brigiid; 04-29-2004 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 04-29-2004, 05:37 PM   #11
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Ahh and now her argument collapses and she starts the personal attacks =)
I guess I win =)

A useless endeavor Brigiid. No one has ever shut me down that way =)
Thanks for playing =)

Because there are far more POOR people than Rich people. That means
(stated for the unenlightened) the POOR peoples concerns win out over the RICH
peoples concerns.

'The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few'

Unless you choose to wear blinders of course.
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Old 04-29-2004, 05:42 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Chiteng
Really? Try web searching the source listed Zolmaz. I didnt make it up =)
Typical of you to call someone a liar when you have no effective retort.
Wcat Webr seurce? Mayber your Couldve you clued me onto into!





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Old 04-29-2004, 05:45 PM   #13
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Wcat Webr seurce? Mayber your Couldve you clued me onto into!


***************************************************
Now we see that Zolmaz didnt actually READ the original post.
Its there Zolmaz, read the post.

There s also an author you might look for: Matthew Miller
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Old 04-29-2004, 05:48 PM   #14
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
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Oh Look, How cute.
Chiteng found someone to beat up on. A female name.

You win the best award for being an ass chiteng. Funny how your
spelling changes when you find somebody to bash.

Your're a Coward Chiteng. Plain and simple.
,,


Originally Posted by Chiteng
Ahh and now her argument collapses and she starts the personal attacks =)
I guess I win =)

A useless endeavor Brigiid. No one has ever shut me down that way =)
Thanks for playing =)

Because there are far more POOR people than Rich people. That means
(stated for the unenlightened) the POOR peoples concerns win out over the RICH
peoples concerns.

'The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few'

Unless you choose to wear blinders of course.
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Old 04-29-2004, 05:49 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Chiteng
Ahh and now her argument collapses and she starts the personal attacks =)
I guess I win =)
Collapses? Hardly. And what have you won? A self-proclaimed victory? Me calling you for what you are suddenly made your point valid? I gotcha!


Originally Posted by Chiteng
A useless endeavor Brigiid. No one has ever shut me down that way =)
Thanks for playing =)
No, and no one ever will shut you down on here because you don't have the common sense to know when you're being insulted or pitied. You just keep on fighting and thinking people are quietly applauding your efforts.


Originally Posted by Chiteng
Because there are far more POOR people than Rich people. That means
(stated for the unenlightened) the POOR peoples concerns win out over the RICH
peoples concerns.

'The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few'
Then by your standards, I should be able to quit my job and let you support me. After all, it's your responsibility to wipe my ass if I decide I can't/won't do it, right? My needs outweigh your needs, because I'm unemployed and poor, and you've got money?


Originally Posted by Chiteng
Unless you choose to wear blinders of course.
Nah, I'll just follow your lead. I'll refuse to see any reason because I'm bound and determined that everyone is out to get me, and no one is doing anything correctly, unless they've been dead for 30+ years and have no bearing on current circumstances. Those are the true heros!

Pardon me if I don't exactly feel insulted by your disapproval. It's a good side of the fence to be on, and I'm in good company.

I still fail to see what your actual point is here. Is it that your friend chose to do a job and you don't approve of it? Is it that the conditions of his job make it convenient for you to come here and bitch about the current administration?

I'll validate one of your points. Our soldiers do deserve more consideration, more pay, better benefits, etc. As for the rest of your anti-administration dogma, you can keep that to yourself.
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Old 04-29-2004, 05:51 PM   #16
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I respond to all attackers equally Zolmaz.
The correct responce is to NOT attack =)
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Old 04-29-2004, 05:52 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Chiteng
Wcat Webr seurce? Mayber your Couldve you clued me onto into!


***************************************************
Now we see that Zolmaz didnt actually READ the original post.
Its there Zolmaz, read the post.

There s also an author you might look for: Matthew Miller
I read your distorted post.

Now your saying that the post you made isn't your own? And belongs to somebody
that I need to search for?

When did this Post searching start on the board? Is this like easter eggs?

heh.



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Old 04-29-2004, 05:53 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Chiteng
I respond to all attackers equally Zolmaz.
The correct responce is to NOT attack =)
So does President Bush. Are you like President Bush now?


Z..
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Old 04-29-2004, 05:55 PM   #19
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No Brigiid, the reason I win is because the post isnt about ME, it is about this issue. You gave up arguing about the ISSUE, implicitly acknowledging defeat.
You dont even realize you did it.

Typical of the lazy debater. Personal attacks dont address the issue.
You lose.

My freind is a soldier, you last comment admits he deserves to be treated better.
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Old 04-29-2004, 05:57 PM   #20
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read your distorted post.

Now your saying that the post you made isn't your own? And belongs to somebody
that I need to search for?

When did this Post searching start on the board? Is this like easter eggs?

heh
*****************************************************
No I am saying that I listed two sources. You didnt bother to read
far enough, or close enough to see them. Not surprised. Not at all.
I doubt you actually read.

But, oddly enough I suspect Luri and Bumble did catch them.
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Old 04-29-2004, 05:59 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Chiteng
No Brigiid, the reason I win is because the post isnt about ME, it is about this issue. You gave up arguing about the ISSUE, implicitly acknowledging defeat.
You dont even realize you did it.

Typical of the lazy debater. Personal attacks dont address the issue.
You lose.

My freind is a soldier, you last comment admits he deserves to be treated better.
Chiteng,
Now it's about winning a debate against someone that doesn't know you?

This is to much.
Brigiid kicked your ass Chiteng. Go wack-off on another forum.


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Old 04-29-2004, 06:01 PM   #22
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I stated my concern in the first post. It isnt myfault you refuse to read it =)
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Old 04-29-2004, 06:10 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Chiteng
No Brigiid, the reason I win is because the post isnt about ME, it is about this issue. You gave up arguing about the ISSUE, implicitly acknowledging defeat. You dont even realize you did it.
Ok, do you realize that as an adult male you are expending entirely too much effort to claim a victory in a message board forum? There are no rules. There is no prize. How the hell is there any difference between win and lose? And who cares? Geez, if it means that much to you to win, then sure! Congratulations! Now you and Cerden have won the internet! Perhaps we'll throw you a party and you can wear one of those sparkly party hats and throw confetti! Do you have any idea how ignorant it sound to try and claim a victory here?


Originally Posted by Chiteng
Typical of the lazy debater. Personal attacks dont address the issue. You lose.
Oh nos! You called me a lazy debater! That's a personal insult! Now you l00z0rz at the internet too!!


Originally Posted by Chiteng
My freind is a soldier, you last comment admits he deserves to be treated better.
Yes, yes it does. Very good! I addressed both of your points - the one in which you talked about your friend, and the one in which you (once again, predictably) used a viable point to launch another of your campaigns against the current administration. It would seem that I stayed right on target in both cases, but hey, I lost at the internet, so what do I know?
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Old 04-29-2004, 06:11 PM   #24
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Goddamn Zolmaz, you are a lazy bastard. I'll lay it out in steps for you.

1) Chiteng referenced the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities. Go to Google and search for it.
2) This page will be returned. See that very first link titled "Center on Budget and Policy Priorities?"
3) Click it, and this page loads.
4) Chiteng spoke of their analysis of the Bush tax cut. Taking this into consideration, this article, titled Tax Returns: A Comprehensive Assessment of the Bush Administration's Record on Cutting Taxes would make sense.
5) Click it, and have fun reading. It does indeed contain the information Chiteng used.
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Old 04-29-2004, 06:35 PM   #25
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War, war never changes.
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