Erollisi Marr - The Nameless

Go Back   Erollisi Marr - The Nameless > NON EQ Stuff (Real life, other games, etc.) > Steam Vent


Reply
 
Add/Share Add/Share Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-29-2004, 01:13 PM   #1
Lurikeen
Freaky
 
Lurikeen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,873
Default Iraqis demand full sovereignty

Members of Iraq's interim Governing Council have called for "nothing less than full sovereignty" after the planned transfer of power on 30 June.
US Secretary of State Colin Powell has said Iraq would have to "give back" some power to the US in the early days.

That caused concern among Iraqi leaders and on the United Nations Security Council which is expected to be asked to support the new government in Iraq.

A spokesman for the Iraqi Governing Council, Hameed al-Kafaei, said he believed Mr Powell was talking about co-operation over security.

"But sovereignty will have to be full on 30 June. Iraqis will not accept any less than full sovereignty," he said.

Public Works Minister Nesreen Berwari told the Associated Press news agency that Iraqis would welcome support for security and building democratic institutions from the UN and the US.

But she said Iraqis must take control of local and national government and make decisions on "day-to-day life," including budgets and "how to move the country politically".

He told Reuters news agency that the coalition did not mean to "seize anything away" from the planned caretaker government but added: "It is with the understanding that they need our help and for us to provide that help we have to be able to operate freely, which in some ways infringes on what some would call full sovereignty."

White House spokesman Scott McClellan said on Tuesday that it was important to separate "sovereignty" from "authority".

He said Iraqis themselves wanted limits on the authority of the interim government which he said had just two roles before it is replaced by an elected body: to assume day-to-day responsibility for administration and to prepare the country for a national poll.

BBC
I am impressed by the double talk coming out of the Bush camp! No really. I mean look at McClellan's statement that it was important to separate "sovereignty" from "authority". Huh? Isn't sovereignty about self-governance, or autonomy?

In fact, it is clear what the Iraqi's have asked for: autonomy by June 30th. Bush is making a huge mistake responding to the Iraqi demand of sovereignty with a "yes you will have that, but not authority". If Iraqis aren't given full control of their government by June 30th, I fear that what is happening in Fallujah will look like a minor struggle compared to the out right, full scale, rebellion that will take place.
__________________
"All I said was... that bit of halibut is good enough for Jehovah." —Monty Python's "Life of Brian"
Lurikeen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2004, 01:38 PM   #2
ShardmoonVer.1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 7,457
Yes, the Iraqis have a long history of throwing off the shackles of oppression. Look at how well they handled Saddam.
__________________
If you don't have something good to say about some one, say it loud.
ShardmoonVer.1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2004, 01:54 PM   #3
Vireil
Disturbing the force
 
Vireil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Emerald City
Posts: 2,711
Saddam was not a foreign oppressor. It's very different. Ask the British about what maintaining control in Iraq is like... they tried it in the early 20th century.

Here's a story
__________________
Vireil
Coercer
<Recovering>
Vireil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2004, 02:00 PM   #4
ShardmoonVer.1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 7,457
No offense to our British friends, but they arent exactly the standard I would measure our political and military abilities against.

I am sure I am not the only one to see the irony of an Iraqi free enough to voice their dissent against the very people that gave them that freedom.
__________________
If you don't have something good to say about some one, say it loud.
ShardmoonVer.1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2004, 02:47 PM   #5
Lurikeen
Freaky
 
Lurikeen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,873
Kiebler, you are right that the Iraqis can now voice dissent, but that is about it. I think the people of Iraq are entitled to self-determination. It is a right. My cut on it is that Bush should just let them have what they want and if they kick out the US military, oh well. At least they will have made their own choices and hopefully they can learn from them.
__________________
"All I said was... that bit of halibut is good enough for Jehovah." —Monty Python's "Life of Brian"
Lurikeen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2004, 05:18 PM   #6
Brigiid
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,879
Send a message via AIM to Brigiid
I don't wholeheartedly support long-term US control of Iraq, but I think we're doing the responsible thing by attempting to get them back on their feet. Regardless of our reasons for entering their country in the first place, we tore the place to shreds. Leaving them alone in that kind of mass devastation to fend for themselves in a mess we created isn't exactly fair to them either.

Yeah, that Bush, he's such an asshole.
__________________
Meh.
Brigiid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2004, 05:20 PM   #7
Chiteng
Supporter
 
Chiteng's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 10,240
Yeah, that Bush, he's such an asshole.
**************************************
Bush doesnt give a DAMN about the poor Iraqi, or the 'mess' created.
That boat dont float
__________________
“It is clear that the individual who persecutes a man, his brother, because he is not of the same opinion, is a monster.”

Voltaire

'For those with faith, no proof is needed. For those without faith, no proof is enough'

French Priest
Chiteng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2004, 05:23 PM   #8
Brigiid
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,879
Send a message via AIM to Brigiid
Originally Posted by Chiteng
Bush doesnt give a DAMN about the poor Iraqi, or the 'mess' created.
And you know this because? Did Miss Cleo clue you in, or did you pull it straight from your ass?
__________________
Meh.
Brigiid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2004, 05:29 PM   #9
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,040
What the liberal news "does not" report, is that part of the Iraqi army has been
fighting along side our Marines. And are ready to take over.

What does this mean? It means that if Iraqis must fight each other,
there will be a change (end) to the resistance. And an end to Iran's
clerics coming in and starting trouble.

Don't forget, we still have Saddam in custody and the new Iraq government
will judge him accordingly. Imagine the celebration at Saddams trial.

Maybe thats a bit to deep for some of you really nice people.



God Bless America
Zolmaz.
Zolmaz Zo'Boto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2004, 05:30 PM   #10
Chiteng
Supporter
 
Chiteng's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 10,240
And you know this because? Did Miss Cleo clue you in, or did you pull it straight from your ass?
__________________
*********************************************************
Because to the enlightened viewer, there are other actions he could easily take if he actually WERE concerned aboiut their welfare.

Its all spin and hype.
__________________
“It is clear that the individual who persecutes a man, his brother, because he is not of the same opinion, is a monster.”

Voltaire

'For those with faith, no proof is needed. For those without faith, no proof is enough'

French Priest
Chiteng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2004, 05:37 PM   #11
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,040
Chiteng! Don't be dissing my Ms. Cleo!
We had tea the other day from the tea leaves she read for me.
I know her personally. Yea thats it, Personally.

And after that we went for a walk, Yea it was a nice walk.
And we talked about things. LOTS of things. Yea things.


Huh? You could care less? Well!, I Never!


Z..
Zolmaz Zo'Boto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2004, 05:38 PM   #12
Lurikeen
Freaky
 
Lurikeen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,873
Brigiid, the Puppet Monkey in the Oval office isn't concerned with the ordinary Iraqi. I doubt that he is even concerned about the ordinary American.

W created a mess in Iraq precisely because he isn't concerned about ordinary people. I think it is safe to say that most Americans right now believe that going to war with Iraq was not necessary (latest polls show this to be true) and they certainly aren't going to buy into the idea that Bush understands the common Iraqi when (again according to the latest polls) most Americans don't think Bush even understands the plight of the average American.

I do agree with you that leaving Iraq right now is not the solution. Especially since we created the mess. That is were I strongly disagreed with Kucinich's idea that we could just simply pull out of Iraq. We can't. One thing is for certain, it is becoming clearer what a tremendous blunder Bush and Blair made in pushing us to war with Iraq. I only hope we don't have to lose many more lives before our politicians wake up to the cold stark reality of war which is that the common, everday person suffers the most. Not those in power.
__________________
"All I said was... that bit of halibut is good enough for Jehovah." —Monty Python's "Life of Brian"
Lurikeen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2004, 05:39 PM   #13
Chiteng
Supporter
 
Chiteng's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 10,240
I suspect Miss Cleo will be in jail soon. She is getting her ass sued off.
Enjoy your conjugal visits Zolmaz
__________________
“It is clear that the individual who persecutes a man, his brother, because he is not of the same opinion, is a monster.”

Voltaire

'For those with faith, no proof is needed. For those without faith, no proof is enough'

French Priest
Chiteng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2004, 05:57 PM   #14
Brigiid
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,879
Send a message via AIM to Brigiid
Originally Posted by Lurikeen
Brigiid, the Puppet Monkey in the Oval office isn't concerned with the ordinary Iraqi. I doubt that he is even concerned about the ordinary American.
Opinion, and mine doesn't concur.
__________________
Meh.
Brigiid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2004, 06:02 PM   #15
Lurikeen
Freaky
 
Lurikeen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,873
Originally Posted by Brigiid
Opinion, and mine doesn't concur.
Of course it is opinion, silly. Do you actually believe that the world turns on facts? The entire enterprise of politics and a economics is likely to run on opinion. Opinions are not created equally. Some are better informed than others.
__________________
"All I said was... that bit of halibut is good enough for Jehovah." —Monty Python's "Life of Brian"
Lurikeen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:13 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.