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Old 04-29-2004, 10:44 AM   #1
Antilles
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Default Disgusting treatment of Iraqi prisoners

Click here

Yeah, it is a link to a journal. But he references news articles and posts pictures, and as I am too lazy to replicate such a post here, I'm sending you to his post.

Back to the matter at hand, this is utterly disgusting. I'm glad action is being taken against the responsible parties, but honestly, how in the fucking world did this seem like a good idea?
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Old 04-29-2004, 11:12 AM   #2
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Because some people are inherently stupid...regardless of what their job/profession is.
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Old 04-29-2004, 11:25 AM   #3
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Trith, telling the Iraqi people that some of the US soldiers are "inherently stupid" will not convince them that all US soldiers aren't like that. Neither will it make the families of the victims feel any better about America, too.

If we are going to win the war in Iraq we have to win the hearts and minds of the ordinary Iraqi first.
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Old 04-29-2004, 11:33 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Lurikeen
If we are going to win the war in Iraq we have to win the hearts and minds of the ordinary Iraqi first.
I'll take "Things that will never ever ever ever fucking ever happen" for $1000 Alex.

A Daily Double!
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Old 04-29-2004, 11:35 AM   #5
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Are the Iraqi people better off without Uday, Qusay and Saddam? From those photos, there doesn't seem to be much difference.
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Old 04-29-2004, 11:39 AM   #6
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What heroes.

This is no better than how the Iraqi's treated our captured servicemen in the original Gulf War. And we're supposed to be 'better' than them.

So much for western 'civilisation'...

If the forces involved in the occupation hope to have a chance in hell of winning keeping / winning the support of the Iraq people and the world at large, scum like this needs to be brought to book, pronto and punished to the fullest extent.
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Old 04-29-2004, 11:42 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Lurikeen
If we are going to win the war in Iraq we have to win the hearts and minds of the ordinary Iraqi first.
There's one other option. The US can make the ordinary Iraqi just as afraid of the Coalition as they were of they Fedayeen Saddam and the Mukhabarat. These people are agitated and irate rather than afraid and complacent. The US is trying to put a friendly face on war, and there is no such thing.
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Old 04-29-2004, 11:48 AM   #8
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The "friendly face" of the war is being presented to Americans so we continue to support the war. I don't think the war has the same 'face' to the oridinary Iraqi.
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Old 04-29-2004, 12:51 PM   #9
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Trith, telling the Iraqi people that some of the US soldiers are "inherently stupid" will not convince them that all US soldiers aren't like that.
If the Iraqi populace is that stupid enough to believe that there isn't much we can do about it. You aren't putting much faith in their abilities as humans Lurikeen.

If we are going to win the war in Iraq we have to win the hearts and minds of the ordinary Iraqi first
No..we need to kill all the terrorists, insurgents, and Islamic fanatics that are blowing up the ordinary Iraqis first..then we have won their hearts and minds..
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Old 04-29-2004, 01:07 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Trith
No..we need to kill all the terrorists, insurgents, and Islamic fanatics that are blowing up the ordinary Iraqis first..then we have won their hearts and minds..
I love this myth: as if all the normal, "good" Iraqis just love the USA and can't wait to contribute their oil to our economy....er, I mean, begin their new democracy, if only we could stomp out the "bad" Iraqis.

I'm sorry- I'm not rooting for the insurgents or anything so just don't bother with that tired tactic- but we invaded their country. Right or wrong, that's bound to ruffle a few feathers amongst the locals. Your story makes great propaganda pieces Trith but it doesn't address reality very well.
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Old 04-29-2004, 02:23 PM   #11
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We didnt invade their country, we invaded Saddams personal playpen. It hasnt been their country in almost 30 years.
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Old 04-30-2004, 01:15 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by ShardmoonVer.1
We didnt invade their country, we invaded Saddams personal playpen. It hasnt been their country in almost 3000 years.
Typo corrected.
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Old 04-30-2004, 01:02 PM   #13
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Talk about slapping the hornet's nest.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...s_arabs_dc&e=3

It affects the honor and pride of Muslim people. It is better to kill them than sexually abuse them."
Now how a select number of Americans viewed Iraqis after seeing those contractors mutilated, the Iraqis will see us.

They should turn in those soldiers that commited that to the Iraqis.
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Old 04-30-2004, 05:41 PM   #14
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Here's an idea of how the Iraqi people felt before these images came out.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/i...ll-cover_x.htm
Only a third of the Iraqi people now believe that the American-led occupation of their country is doing more good than harm, and a solid majority support an immediate military pullout even though they fear that could put them in greater danger
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Old 04-30-2004, 06:15 PM   #15
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I recall fighting with several posters that claimed that US troops would never misbehave. If you recall I disputed that. After watching men gun down
stray civilians who just happened to wander into range, I put nothing past any soldier.

I am surprised it isnt WORSE than depicted.
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Old 04-30-2004, 06:29 PM   #16
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Worse? Maybe, though more widespread would probably be a better description of what they are looking into now. Pictures of British soldiers subjecting Iraqi prisoners to similar bullshit are now surfacing and more investigations are underway.

This is all new, I'm sure more cases of it will continue to be brought to light and more soldiers will have action taken against them.
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Old 05-01-2004, 02:25 AM   #17
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What I want to know is, why did it take Bush two days to even publicly comment on that matter? Hardly good PR.

And if things weren't bad enough....

UK probes alleged Iraqi beatings by troops

By Michael Holden

LONDON (Reuters) - An investigation has been launched into allegations British soldiers abused Iraqi prisoners and the Daily Mirror has published photographs of a captive being urinated on and beaten.

The images were published only days after similar revelations involving U.S. troops provoked international dismay and anger, and Prime Minister Tony Blair said the allegations must be treated seriously and investigated quickly.

Britain`s army chief, General Sir Mike Jackson, ordered an immediate inquiry into the allegations on Friday, after the Daily Mirror handed the photographs to army authorities.

"If proven, not only is such appalling conduct clearly unlawful, it clearly contravenes the British army`s high standards," Jackson said in a statement. "If proven, the perpetrators are not fit to wear the queen`s uniform. They have besmirched the good name of the army and its honour."

The Daily Mirror published five photographs of a hooded prisoner, which it said had come from two unnamed soldiers in the Queen`s Lancashire Regiment. The soldiers said the man had been detained on suspicion of stealing.

"Lads were taking turns giving him a right going over, smashing him in the face with weapons and stamping on him," one soldier was quoted as saying.

The newspaper said the prisoner was later driven away from a Basra camp and hurled off the back of a truck.

Several weeks later, men from the same regiment are alleged to have beaten to death another prisoner, The Mirror said.

U.S. President George W. Bush said he was "deeply disgusted" by photos shown on CBS News on Wednesday showing U.S. soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners held at the Abu Ghraib prison, a notorious centre of torture and executions under ousted President Saddam Hussein.

CRIMINAL CHARGES

The U.S. military has brought criminal charges against six soldiers relating to accusations of abuses from November and December 2003 on some 20 detainees, including indecent acts with another person, maltreatment, battery, dereliction of duty and aggravated assault.

Blair, who strongly condemned the abuse involving U.S. soldiers, gave his full backing to the British army probe.

"The prime minister fully endorses both the statement by General Sir Michael Jackson and the action he is taking as well as the speed with which the army is acting," his spokesman said.

"The prime minister agrees that allegations of this nature are treated most seriously, but they should not be taken as a reflection of the general behaviour of coalition forces and the work they are doing with the Iraqi people."

Britain`s forces in Iraq, concentrated in the south of the country around Basra, have previously been praised for their conduct towards the Iraqi people.

There have been previous inquiries into allegations of abuse by British soldiers in Iraq, but none have warranted such a high-profile response from authorities.

The human rights group Amnesty International said it had warned U.S. and British authorities in Iraq that captives were being abused.

"We have talked to ex-prisoners, who say when they were taken into custody they were hooded and beaten, sometimes numerous times and subjected on some occasions to psychological torture and acts of sexual humiliation," Amnesty`s Neil Durkin told Sky News.

"They (the provisional authority) simply have not acted on these reports. There is on the face of it a pattern."
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Old 05-01-2004, 03:32 AM   #18
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We are having a hard enough time here without this kind of action on the part of some of our troops. Its just another reason the locals are going to use to rise up. I have a feeling that a civil war is on the horizon, or worse yet an all out sunni/shiit union against us.
As if our job here wasn't hard enough....
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Old 05-01-2004, 06:20 AM   #19
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I agree Ramesses. Hopefully, some damage control can be done to show that a handful of American and British soldiers in no way represents the majority of our militarys.
It's like in High School, you take 3000 students and it only takes a few inmature punks making the news to run the rep of the school.

And for the guy that brought Bush into this. You aren't going to try and blame this on him too are ya? hillarious.. I say we should blame Kerry. Yeah, sounds good to me.
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Old 05-01-2004, 07:08 AM   #20
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Yup, this sort of shit happens. It's one of the reasons we have MPs.

Those responsible will be tried, and they will go to prison.
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Old 05-01-2004, 12:01 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Caelie123
I agree Ramesses. Hopefully, some damage control can be done to show that a handful of American and British soldiers in no way represents the majority of our militarys.
It's like in High School, you take 3000 students and it only takes a few inmature punks making the news to run the rep of the school.

And for the guy that brought Bush into this. You aren't going to try and blame this on him too are ya? hillarious.. I say we should blame Kerry. Yeah, sounds good to me.
Blame him for it? Not even close, he pointed out the fact that it took Bush two days to publicly address the issue.

When shit like this happens that further tarnishes the image of Americans held by Iraqis, the President should be on top of that, reminding them that what happened was in no way shape or form condoned and that it does not reflect the will of the US. Reassurance like that does a helluva lot more to try and save their perception of us.

Why is it that whenever Bush is brought up, it suddenly means he is being blamed? Is it not at all possible that his actions are simply being critiqued and that no link is being drawn between events that transpired and the cause being at the hands of the President? Christ.
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Old 05-01-2004, 01:55 PM   #22
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Yes, it would have been much better if Bush had just held a press conference and said "I dont have all the facts, but bad soldiers, bad bad soldiers".

Its not like 60 Minutes has ever misled the public and distorted news to suit their view point (not reporting that they had a financial interest in promoting Richards Clarkes book). The government should just take their reporting at face value and base all its responses on it.
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Old 05-01-2004, 02:10 PM   #23
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Ironically this kind of violence is something the Iraqis are comfortable with.
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Old 05-01-2004, 02:12 PM   #24
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Only if they get to do it to themselves.
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Old 05-01-2004, 02:33 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by ShardmoonVer.1
Yes, it would have been much better if Bush had just held a press conference and said "I dont have all the facts, but bad soldiers, bad bad soldiers".

Its not like 60 Minutes has ever misled the public and distorted news to suit their view point (not reporting that they had a financial interest in promoting Richards Clarkes book). The government should just take their reporting at face value and base all its responses on it.
The fact that the soldiers have been removed from duty and action is already being taken against them is quite an indicator as to the government knowing more about it than the public. Otherwise I would agree with you.
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