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Old 04-29-2004, 04:55 AM   #76
Kerryn
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No I expected the answer and I therefore order the US to stop producing chemical and biological weapons, or nuclear arms, and I order you to allow me to inspect your country, and all it's secret documents to prove it has done so.

The difference is you don't respect my request because the US is bigger and can fuck me up if it wants to.

Might...it would appear is right.

The Western world is allowed WMD but the Eastern world is not.
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Old 04-29-2004, 05:02 AM   #77
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The difference is you don't respect my request because the US is bigger and can fuck me up if it wants to.
I don't respect your request because you are not the UN and you have no authority to make such orders. I also don't respect people who tell me what I do and don't respect. Or, did you just come to that assumption because I'm an American and you can't get past your pre-conceived notions of us? You...it would appear are wrong.
The Western world is allowed WMD but the Eastern world is not.
Your generalizations just get broader and broader as you go. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was NOT the US that decreed that Iraq couldn't have WMD, but the UN. Bitch at them.
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Old 04-29-2004, 05:31 AM   #78
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I don't respect your request because you are not the UN and you have no authority to make such orders.
This is Bullshit if I ever heard it. To begin with, you have no authority nor does he so don't pretend like you do. Secondly, you see this as America has all the freedoms to do what they want because you think that America is inherently good to all and is fighting this fight of goodness everywhere it goes. You cons are not sensible, you believe out of nationalism. Hence you fail to understand other nations points of view entirely. America fights too much. We have deposed fairly elected leaders to fill our own agendas.
You have this mistaken belief that when other countries fight it is only because they are landgrabbers. What the hell are we doing in Iraq may I ask you? How come we guarded the oil ministry so quickly if we haven't been imperialistic? How come the Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Cheney doctrine of the late 90s and even Bush today insists that Iraq become democratic? How come we have constantly refused to turn over the country and its doings to the UN? What possible landgrab could they seek? How come the majority of Iraqis now see us as occupiers? Wouldn't the Iraqis know more than you and I since they are actually living the land where we aren't?
Speaking of Baathists- Wouldn't it be sensible for any group of people to fight to keep the authority they had, regardless of whether they are good or bad. The people of this group are no different than you or I. In fact, down here in Alabama and the south, we had some bad people fighting for years to keep Jim Crow in effect. You know them, they are amongst us today (Trent Lott). I don't see you considering them bad and talking badly about them.
Rather than giving Bullshit answers why not answer the question that is asked to you in an honest way instead of being a nationalist.
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Old 04-29-2004, 05:49 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Zoltard
Thats what your side of the fence is trying to prove. All in an attempt to cause bush to lose the 04 election. It's a failed attempt.
We are? Please show me where someone from "my side of the fence" is trying to prove that invading Afghanistan would have stopped 9/11- links please or admit you're lieing. Again.

Originally Posted by Zoltard
Who's to say it wouldn't have stopped 9/11?. You sound almost happy that 9/11 did occur. Anarchist anyone?
How do I sound happy that 9/11 occurred? Had a terrorist instead flown solo into your shack in the foothills of Kentucky on 9/11 perhaps my story would be different, but to insinuate that I am in any way happy about 9/11 is a bit low even for a shitstain like yourself Zol. Oh wait, I forgot- anyone who disagrees with you must either be a terrorist or a terrorist sympathizer.

As to stopping 9/11 the burden of proof is on you in this case. There is nothing that has come to light in the way of evidence since the tragedy to suggest that this would have prevented the events of that day.
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Old 04-29-2004, 05:57 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Wildane
Well, I don't remember Libyans dancing in the streets after having murdered thousands of Americans either. I'm sorry, but if you think terrorists would agree to sit down and work out a peace agreement with us "infidels", you're fooling yourself. And, as I said, after having committed such an act of terror and hatred, they do not fucking deserve our diplomacy. What they deserve is a taste of their own medicine, but luckily, we aren't giving it to them. We do not intentionally target civillians to murder. We do not identify an enemy on the sole basis of where they were born. We do not negotiate with FUCKING ANIMALS!
Do you remember the 1980s very well Wildane? Does flight 103 ring a bell? Lockerbie? What about Libya's funding ETA, the IRA, United Front and other terror organizations?

Apparently we do negotiate with "FUCKING ANIMALS."

Hell, the Republican Jesus, Ronald Reagan, even bought the freedom of hostages from similar "FUCKING ANIMALS."
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Old 04-29-2004, 05:59 AM   #81
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Horm the Con mantra is that fighting is the only plausible action ever.

Even John Abizaid has been starting to complain because we are seeking too little political solutions instead of fighting. Bush, since he sees things in his little black and white way, doesn't understand that politics is more than just elections.
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Old 04-29-2004, 07:24 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Wildane - Relevant Parts for Clarity
I don't respect your request.
I also don't respect people who tell me what I do and don't respect
Or, did you just come to that assumption because I'm an American
It would appear my assumption was entirely correct.

I said you didn't respect my request, you admitted you didn't and then said I was wrong. You really should read a definition of that word assumption. It isnt as negative as people make out.

Now if it weren't for the ass in the word assumption I'd treat you with some of the respect I felt this thread deserved but since you can't, why don't you and your little pals shut the fuck up about my "pre-conceived notions of Americans" since it's the lame argument you keep on using over and over again. If you're going to use that every time we debate it's going to get....no wait...its already old.

Both the UK and the US would tell Saddam to fuck right off. But if he does it, he's different.

This post is a prime example. I talk about the "western world" and you talk about "the US". Last time I looked the western world included Western Europe also.

It's interesting that you say you don't respect my request since I'm not the UN, inferring that you would respect the UNs request. However neither the UK nor the US respected the UNs decision when they called for us not to invade Iraq until further investigations had been made. Seems the "respect" only goes so far.
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Old 04-29-2004, 08:27 AM   #83
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It would appear my assumption was entirely correct.
Bullshit. You are quoting that entirely out of context. I disagreed with your reason for me not respecting your request, and gave my own.
why don't you and your little pals shut the fuck up about my "pre-conceived notions of Americans" since it's the lame argument you keep on using over and over again
Who keeps using it over and over again? As far as I know, that's the second time I've said anything that even related to such a notion. YOU are the one throwing around broad generalizations of Americans, which really just strengthens my statement.
It's interesting that you say you don't respect my request since I'm not the UN, inferring that you would respect the UNs request. However neither the UK nor the US respected the UNs decision when they called for us not to invade Iraq until further investigations had been made.
You know what, hotshot? *I* am NOT the US. You are trying to relate my personal opinion to matters of the state over which I have no control. I can't speak for the entire nation, I can only give you answers based on what I would do if I were in that position. But neither I, nor my country, has been in that position, so yes, you making assumptions about the outcome of purely theoretical events based on what you think of the mentality of my entire country ("because the US is bigger and can fuck me up if it wants to"), is fucking stupid. It was statements such as THAT which drove me attack any "preconceived notions" you have. Can you honestly read what you wrote and tell me you don't understand how I could draw such a conclusion?
Seems the "respect" only goes so far.
You're absolutely right, Kerryn. I used to respect that fact that you were a fair person, but I see I was wrong. You're no better than anyone else. I was actually shocked when I saw how you took my comments out of context and then blasted me for something I didn't say. Thought you were better than that. Oh well.
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Old 04-29-2004, 08:50 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by Wildane
I used to respect that fact that you were a fair person, but I see I was wrong.
Don't be an idiot. You embolden the ass in assumption, and then you go on to attack my pre-conceived notion of America as you did in a previous post that had nothing at all to do with the US.

Last time it was about warmongers and you and your friends hijacked it by making it about my Anti-American sentiment but if this is how you respect that I was a fair person then I'd hate to see what you do with those you don't respect.

Personally I felt that your respect for me left once a common enemy departed and I certainly haven't felt any lately so whilst I didn't anticipate your response I wasn't shocked.

I don't feel I took your quotes out of context but that was never my intention. The simple truth is you don't respect my request because I don't have the authority and I don't have the authority because I cannot be a threat to UN interests.

If the UN tommorow decided that the old Iraqi goverment were entitled to inspect America or the UK our goverments would tell them to fuck off, and the only reason we can afford to do that is because if the need arises we can kick the shit out of them.

The UK and the US have little respect for the UN and even more so lately. Who we respect

YOU are the one throwing around broad generalizations of Americans, which really just strengthens my statement.
It doesnt strengthen your statement because I made no generalisation about Americans, Wildane. I made a comment that I believe to be true about you.

You made it about Americans because I think you believe it will garner you support.
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Old 04-29-2004, 09:14 AM   #85
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Treet, iff SH ves sooch a threet tu zee US, vhy deedn't he-a geefe-a el-Qeeda zee VMD thet yuoo cleeem he-a hed dooreeng zee 12 yeers seence-a zee furst Goolff Ver vhee he-a hed a reel reesun tu be-a peessed et us?
Translated from Veo'grish to English: I'm too fucking stupid to have a point so I'm going to make myself look like more of an ass than I already do by acting like a 10 year-old.


CONGRATS!!! You are TEH WIN!!!!

I'm still amazed how some people ever learn to use the Internet in the first place..but people like Veo convince me that even the worst brain damage can be overcome....
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Old 04-29-2004, 09:21 AM   #86
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What I find incredibly amusing is that we're talking about 'terrorist camps' in Iraq...

Wasn't it a militia group in Montana that produced our dear friend Timothy McVeigh? From a third-party standpoint and the right amount of spin, that could easily be seen as a 'terrorist training organization.'

After all, it trained a terrorist, didn't it? But wait, they're Americans, and they have 2nd amendment rights, and they're not A-rabs, so it's all good, even if one of them did kill many Americans.

There's a hell of a lot of smeared perspective here. If that Militia group had been stationed in any other country, you can be damn well sure we'd have gone in shooting... but it's okay... they were white, American, and protected.

Life goes on.
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Old 04-29-2004, 09:44 AM   #87
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I made a comment that I believe to be true about you.
And that is why I made the ass stand out. I really have no clue where I would give the impression that I subscribe to any "might makes right" belief, because I don't. One thing I cannot stand is people preaching to me or criticizing me on what they *think* are my motives. I am not a complicated person. I say what I mean and I mean what I say. You want to read something that isn't there, fine, but don't be surprised when I give you hell for it.
Last time it was about warmongers and you and your friends hijacked it by making it about my Anti-American sentiment but if this is how you respect that I was a fair person then I'd hate to see what you do with those you don't respect.
Try to put yourself in someone else's shoes for a change. All we ever hear about are the "warmongering Americans and their warmongering President". 99 times out of 100, when someone sayd "warmonger", they're referring to Americans. It gets fucking tedious, ok? You making a post like that touches a nerve you can't understand. And for the record, before you start making accusations, I'm not trying to be elitist when I say that, but you don't live here. You don't have to deal with the hatred on the same level. And yes, it bugs me that a stranger halfway around the world hates my guts. If you're gonna hate me, at least do it because of something I've done.

Also for the record, I don't have pals here. Not that I wouldn't be friendly to some folks, but there isn't anyone here I know outside this web site. Anytime I agree with someone, it's because it's what I believe personally. I associate with no political party, even though most of my viewpoints tend to be conservative. I do not make my decisions based on what any party tells me to think. If it appears that I jump on any bandwagons here, it is purely coincidentel. I tend to have a lot of opinions, but they are all my own.
Personally I felt that your respect for me left once a common enemy departed and I certainly haven't felt any lately so whilst I didn't anticipate your response I wasn't shocked.
No idea what you're talking about here. It does seem we've disagreed on more subjects lately, but just because I don't agree with someone doesn't mean they don't have my respect.
I don't feel I took your quotes out of context but that was never my intention.
Let's review, shall we?

You said: "you don't respect my request because the US is bigger and can fuck me up if it wants to."

I said: "I don't respect your request because you are not the UN and you have no authority to make such orders."

That does NOT mean that I won't respect any request you make, but what you ask, I haven't the ability to give. Why should I respect such a ludicrous request? I told you I didn't respect it FOR THE REASON YOU GAVE. I don't see how I can make it more clear.
You made it about Americans because I think you believe it will garner you support.
No, actually it's probably because of a misinterpretation. When I saw your use of "western world", I was thinking in terms of hemispheres, because that's not a term I see often. That and the fact that you make the "might makes right" comment. It looked to me that you were implying that the US was responsible for those countries that didn't have weapons of mass destruction. Based on that, I apologize for any remarks made from my misunderstanding.
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Old 04-29-2004, 09:49 AM   #88
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PS - never do I try to garner support. I am here to discuss my opinions on various topics; I'm not trying to "win" or anything like that.
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Old 04-29-2004, 06:28 PM   #89
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Diplomacy was tried in Libya and was a resounding success.
Yeah, the diplomacy was that they saw we had a president that had enough balls to take care of some of the shit stains on the planet. They were next, they knew it. That's diplomacy at work alrighty.

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Old 04-29-2004, 08:14 PM   #90
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune
We are? Please show me where someone from "my side of the fence" is trying to prove that invading Afghanistan would have stopped 9/11- links please or admit you're lieing. Again.
Show me where your side tried to prevent 9/11.
You loved 9/11 Admit it. You pathetic worthless Wanabe American.


Originally Posted by Hormadrune
How do I sound happy that 9/11 occurred? Had a terrorist instead flown solo into your shack in the foothills of Kentucky on 9/11 perhaps my story would be different, but to insinuate that I am in any way happy about 9/11 is a bit low even for a shitstain like yourself Zol. Oh wait, I forgot- anyone who disagrees with you must either be a terrorist or a terrorist sympathizer.
Your language speaks for yourself. How proud your mother must feel when
you tell her about your posts.

And yes, you do sound happy about America being attacked because you have
yet to make a single post that supports America. You're always bashing America.
DUH??? You hate the War, You even hate McDonalds because they sold
hot coffee to an elderly woman. Pick a reason Horma. You've said it all.

Originally Posted by Hormadrune
As to stopping 9/11 the burden of proof is on you in this case. There is nothing that has come to light in the way of evidence since the tragedy to suggest that this would have prevented the events of that day.
Now it's my fault that 9/11 happened? OMFG! This is your best post ever Hormadrune.

Ever thought about sky-diving?




God Bless America
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Old 04-30-2004, 02:43 AM   #91
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Edit : Wrong post, wrong topic.

Edit : Adding the correct post.

I came into this thread with no enmity for you at all Wildane. I wanted to show first of all that Inmountains is a lunatic who screams about how diplomacy won't work when it's been tried in other arenas and been shown to be sucessful, but not in this arena.

Then I simply wanted to show you a different point of view because I know that both our countries would not bow to the will of the UN if it insisted that Iraqi weapons inspectors go through our countries private records. I think even despite your ideal that we should allow those inspections I think you could see that there's a stong possibility they wouldn't.

I don't think it's "pre-conception" to think that neither country would allow it, and that it would be a major dealbreaker which would finish the UN for good. We could afford to break that deal, because we are superpowers and because they could not enforce any sanctions that would effect us. The two countries could trade independantly between ourselves with little inconvenience.

You say you don't respect me because I am not an authority. The only thing that makes an authority is the ability to fuck other people up. Authority is nothing but "might". So my assessment stands, you do not respect my demands for inspection since in the end it boils down to the fact I cannot fuck you up. It might not be the basis for your argument but I don't believe it's out of context.

Try to put yourself in someone else's shoes for a change. All we ever hear about are the "warmongering Americans and their warmongering President". 99 times out of 100, when someone sayd "warmonger", they're referring to Americans. It gets fucking tedious, ok?
That's incorrect in that over 50% of the time anyone refers to warmongers they are referring to middle eastern countries, but semantics aside I see where you're going. What you have to understand is that's not my problem.

As we saw in that thread there are people their that are warmongering. I said I didn't expect you to have that attitude but you started with the flames. If I make a post that contains comments about the US, the first thing that anyone does rather then argue valid points is to play the "anti-America" card, you included.

I'm happy debating these subjects with you Wildane and I do respect your opinions even if I don't agree with them. But if we're going to debate lets not degenerate into what others will do and dodge questions and arguments. We're both better then that.

Also for the record, I don't have pals here.
That was perhaps harsh of me and I apologise in that it was in part retaliation for the ass comment. What I was referring to was those in a category of people who degenerate to flaming when there is a valid argument to be answered by simply saying I have "pre-conceptions" and am "anti-american". When I referred to your "pals" I was bundling you with the likes of Trith, Nuzum, Zolmaz and Chuk. For that I apologise.

No idea what you're talking about here. It does seem we've disagreed on more subjects lately, but just because I don't agree with someone doesn't mean they don't have my respect.
I think you know to whom I refer if you think about it. When our agendas aren't contrary to each other we've always worked well as a team in expressing our viewpoints and in part, making the offending party look extremely stupid. But now we stand on opposite sides and I didn't want to resort to the tactics we've both used against others in the past. Personally I felt that that hasn't been true of you in our recent discussions.

Perhaps I did make an assumption of your views and ideals and for that I apologise again but assumption only means to make a guess. If that guess was wrong, then by all means tell me. Stick the ass in assumption and I won't respond well. I think we just provoked each others ire.

Last edited by Kerryn; 04-30-2004 at 03:49 AM.
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Old 04-30-2004, 05:25 AM   #92
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i am sorry, americans are to stubbern to face a wrong decision !

the irak war was a wrong one

it solved nothing .. and all the idiots will not understand that you will never win this war.

you know what Peter Scholl-Latour (Middle East, Vietnam-specialist) meant when he answered the question: "what do you wish president Bush ?"
"may i take the words of some radical islamic leader: we wish that Bush will be reelected, then we have our holy war against the americans... united with all the other islamic brother and sisters worldwide"


i just wish you all good luck if that happens... than all your stupid "iihh... you are a cons.. you dont what you are saying" and all the other mindless, arrogant and plain idiotic postings will blown to dust.. and you all will be in first line to fight this war for your land.. and you will never be able to win.

geez...

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Old 04-30-2004, 06:52 AM   #93
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Zolmaz, not only are you a bigot, a redneck, and a liar, but you are also apparently illiterate. My post reads "2+2=4" and you then claim I said "2+2=9 and fuck America"! You don't have a leg to stand on and so you lie repeatedly. I tell you the burden of proof is on you regarding a pre-emptive invasion of Afghanistan preventing or not preventing 9/11 and you claim I posted that you, Zolmaz, are responsible for 9/11?? Nice try Corky. You make Cletus the Slack Jawed Yokel look like a Rhodes Scholar.

I want you to seriously contemplate voluntary castration. It's that or you need to kill yourself because the species simply cannot afford to let your DNA pass to the next generation. Do it for America Zolmaz!
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Old 04-30-2004, 11:03 AM   #94
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dont let this usefull thread die
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