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Old 04-27-2004, 04:34 PM   #26
Deadscale
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I think terrorism is being weeded out, anyone else see what could have taken place in Jordan, the cloud of poison gas?
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Old 04-27-2004, 05:21 PM   #27
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Get it through your thick fucking head. Hussein was not a terrorist supporter. He was tyrannical, but that is not terrorist. Just because someone is tyrannical doesn't mean they resort to using Al Qaeda does it?
You're kidding me right? Do a search on google and type in Salman Pak. You are going to sit here and try to tell us that the terrorist training camp in Iraq on the Tigris had nothing to do with Saddam correct?
You really need to think and check your facts before you go stereotyping anyone and everyone. We know Republicans have all you sheep in their nets because they like to stereotype, but you really have to ask questions. It really is fun and you can learn things when you do ask questions.
No, Bumbleroot you need to think and check your facts before you go off in complete denial. I don't need to stereotype Saddam. There is all kind of proof that he supported terrorism. It really is fun and you my friend can learn things when you remove your head from your ass.
Check out the links I posted in the other forum "a real hero" somehow you turned that into a Saddam isn't a terrorist thread as well. He might have been secular and he might have been supportive of all religions, but he sure as hell killed thousands of his own people because they didn't think like him. Word is now he has converted to Christianity and wears a Christian T-shirt and WWJD armband in captavity. Kinda reminds ya of John Kerry don't it. Flip flopping around to whoever might save his ass.
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Old 04-27-2004, 05:51 PM   #28
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This can not be resolved. Some will see intercepted shipments of aluminum tubing (to name one example) as evidence of a nuclear weapons program. Others will not see a completed nuclear bomb as evidence of the same. Some are more pragmatic and let the evidence guide their theories instead of letting their theories guide the evidence.

If you have think that Bush is a warmonger, it is likely that nothing will ever change your mind, and you will probably always see supporters as liars and evidence as manufactured. Likewise, if your faith in Bush is ironclad, you will find evidence everywhere, dissenters of all kinds become unpatriotic or unamerican, and nothing will ever change your mind either.
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Old 04-27-2004, 06:47 PM   #29
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was in the middle of a reply and the damned power went out.

fucking wind ~_~


anyway..

Immoral and Illegal In who's eyes? The liberals? The media? The UN? Yours? Other spineless countries? Just who is pressing charges against the US?
The definition of immorality is different for each person. Illegal probably wasn't a good word either. Should have said it like..

"Going to war based on what a country might do is...fucking retarded."

You cannot go around assuming people will do something, when they have just as much a chance as not doing it. If our government keeps this up, how long until the rest of the world gets together and decides to get rid of the American Empire?

"Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups"

Good quote from an awful movie.

We won't win this war. We'll kill the guys that shoot at us in Iraq, but thats hardly winning. Over there, we're the posterchild for "sign up now and recieve free molotov cocktails to throw at the americans."

I bet you the person we hand rule of Iraq over to will be assassinated in the first month.
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Old 04-27-2004, 08:53 PM   #30
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Not that we know of. So your point is we should wait and go after leaders that support terrorism only after they kill 3000 people.
All I can say is what an unbelievable thought process. It wouldn't matter to you guys. You're nothing but critics. We wait and you holler "the administration knew something might happen and they did nothing." If we pre-empt you guys say "why did we attack them? They didn't do anything to us."
If the government arrested and executed every American that they suspected of being capable of murdering somebody at some point, that would be okay, right? After all we trust our law enforcement and intelligence sources enough to declare war on a hunch.

But that's not the case, now is it? Because America is infallible, and it's only the lesser (read: Arab) nations who deserve no due process or benefit of the doubt.

War on anything is tough. Get used to it.
Or get rid of the warmonger. This is an election year, lest we forget.
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Old 04-27-2004, 09:06 PM   #31
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Check out the links I posted in the other forum "a real hero" somehow you turned that into a Saddam isn't a terrorist thread as well. He might have been secular and he might have been supportive of all religions, but he sure as hell killed thousands of his own people because they didn't think like him
Nobody called Saddam a saint. He is a bad boy. However, that does not preclude him being a terrorist.

Oh and Caelie this association with terrorism and Iraq is with Al-Zarqawi. He has no link to Saddam. What you fail to realize is that this was NOT STATE SPONSORED. It is an individual cell. Pretty much like militias are in the US. You try and try and try but you only believe what you want to believe. There is no link to Hussein.
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Old 04-28-2004, 02:00 AM   #32
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Humans memory is a fun tool You can forgot something realy fast and, after a bit of so-called information, be certain that what you heard is what happened.

Part 1:
Afghanistan and Al-Qaeda and Terrorism and 911 are related. Deeply and fully proofed. USA went in war, not against Afghanistan, but against Talibans and Al-Qaeda, the first protecting the second. And nearly the entire world was behind USA supporting the war effort.

Terrrorism is bad, evil and immoral. Period. You will have all right to fight against it.

Part 2:
Some misinformation, some misleading hints and TADAM, Irak and Saddam are threatening USA and the free world. No Weapon of Mass Destruction, no Alumium bars, no link between Al-Qaeda and Saddam (both are hating each other with a great passion). But no, some of you are just so certain that Saddam was behind 911 and was funding Al-Qaeda.

It is possible!! Without proof showing no certain link, yes, it is possible Saddam was funding or working with Ben Laden and Al-Qaeda.

Seriously, it is possible your son/daughter/cousin/friend hate you and made something bad to you (stealing in your wallet, talking bad about you, planning murdering,...) Do you take your gun and shoot them like that? No. You would end in jail.

Show me proof of link between Al-Qaeda and Saddam, or a proof that Saddam was going to invade USA and then I will gladly say you had all right to make terrorism rise to a height never seen yet.
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Old 04-28-2004, 06:05 AM   #33
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I'm just afraid that it's going to take another attack on American soils for some of you to realise you've created more enemies then you could hope to kill in 20 wars.
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Old 04-28-2004, 07:22 AM   #34
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I am just afraid it's going to take another attack on American Soil for you Liberals to realize that Diplomacy, Rhetoric and Compromise with terrorist groups and terrorist nations just doesn't work.
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Old 04-28-2004, 07:38 AM   #35
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Are you mentally retarded? There hasn't been any diplomacy and compromise. There has been only war.

If the attack on the Western world continues it will be because the wrong choice was made.
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Old 04-28-2004, 07:44 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Inmountains
I am just afraid it's going to take another attack on American Soil for you Liberals to realize that Diplomacy, Rhetoric and Compromise with terrorist groups and terrorist nations just doesn't work.
Seems like a wonderfull tune you have in the head:

"Where are the proof for Irak??" Put any kind of music on that and I am sure you can sing it as long as you want.

I said it beofre and say it again, ALL the world was behind USA for Afghanistan. But this isnt the problem here now. Unless I have read the thread completely wrong, the question is about Irak.

Edut: Proof sounds better than proo
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Old 04-28-2004, 07:49 AM   #37
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Iraq sound better then Irak my old friend. But again I commend the fact that your English gets better every time we encounter one another.
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Old 04-28-2004, 07:57 AM   #38
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LOL Kerryn

It is spelled Irak in french, this is why I write it like this. Will try to remember next time.
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Old 04-28-2004, 09:11 AM   #39
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Iraq and Afghanistan are, however, two completely separate and unrelated entities.
No they aren't. They are two theaters in the same war...trying to convince yourself of anything else is playing pure politics and self-denial.

Now..are we winning the war? Ask me again in November. If the words "President elect Kerry" are on the TV..then no..we have lost and can bank on many thousands of innocent lives lost as a result of his potential in/actions. If we hear "President elect Bush"..then yes..we have/will win the war.

Get it through your thick fucking head. Hussein was not a terrorist supporter
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Old 04-28-2004, 09:31 AM   #40
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I swear to fuck, some of the revisionism being perpetrated by the likes of Trith and Co. is as good as Stalin airbrushing out those he had purged.


"No they aren't. They are two theaters in the same war...trying to convince yourself of anything else is playing pure politics and self-denial."

Fucking comedy gold.
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Old 04-28-2004, 09:48 AM   #41
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Your right Usna..there are no terrorists in Iraq. In other news, ignorance has become a tradable commodity...you are now rich.
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Old 04-28-2004, 09:51 AM   #42
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I am just afraid it's going to take another attack on American Soil for you Liberals to realize that Diplomacy, Rhetoric and Compromise with terrorist groups and terrorist nations just doesn't work.
IM you cons tend to think of everything in black and white. Nobody said to compromise, or try diplomacy with terrorists. There are better ways to defeat them. You defend them with ideals not with bombs. All you do with bombs are paybacks. Bombs only breed more of them. They are structured that way. You defeat them with propaganda and words much like the communists were defeated by freedoms. In fact the fall of the USSR was without bloodshed.
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Old 04-28-2004, 09:51 AM   #43
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No they aren't. They are two theaters in the same war...trying to convince yourself of anything else is playing pure politics and self-denial.

Are you out of your mind?

We went to Afghanistan to find Bin Laden. We did not find him, but we killed some people there.

To cover that up that mess, the Bush admin figured Saddam would make a good target. He did some bad things in the past, surely he must be doing it again eh?

Iraq had not presented itself as a threat to us since the Gulf War. There was an assumption made in the chain of command somewhere that since Saddam and Bin Laden are both of Islamic descent, and since they both live in the Middle East, and since they're both militaristic dictator-types, they must be the same person.

Of course, thats pure scenario. I don't know the truth about what happened, and no one without security clearance does either. And even they are "not supposed to know."

But if you believe that Iraq and Afghanistan are the same war, then you are, when it all comes down to it, a fucking retard.

Saddam isn't a terrorist. He's a dictator. There's a difference. He has (well, had) an actual military force. An army with guns. Nothing subtle.

Terrorism is akin to guerilla warfare. You don't really know who is one of'em until they pull open a coat to show you their brand new leather buckled prada bag packed with C4 and a big shiny red button with their finger on it.


ninja edit...

Of course there are terrorists in Iraq. There are terrorists in every country. I bet there are ~50 cells in the US and have been since the 80s. Thats one of their strategies..spread themselves around and create independent cells. You can't just invade a country for suspected terrorists in hiding.
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Old 04-28-2004, 09:54 AM   #44
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But if you believe that Iraq and Afghanistan are the same war, then you are, when it all comes down to it, a fucking retard.
I should have bought futures in ignorance...then I too could be rich.
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Old 04-28-2004, 09:56 AM   #45
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Are you mentally retarded? There hasn't been any diplomacy and compromise. There has been only war.

If the attack on the Western world continues it will be because the wrong choice was made.
In referrence to the war on terror: Please explain to me how I can be diplomatic towards someone who has such a seering hatred for me, just because of my country? It's not a matter of me not trying to be diplomatic, it's a matter of they would rather kill me than look at me. Anyone that would fly a plane full of innocents into a building full of the same isn't going to be receptive to any diplomacy. They don't want peace with us, they want us dead.

In referrence to the war in Iraq: For over ten years was Saddam given chances to comply with UN (not US) weapons inspectors, and for over ten years, he failed to give them the total access demanded of him. What would you have us do, ask him again?
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Old 04-28-2004, 10:04 AM   #46
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A Marine Speaks Out:
Sat in a movie theater watching "Schindler's List," asked myself, "Why didn't the Jews fight back?"

Now I know why.

I sat in a movie theater, watching "Pearl Harbor" and asked myself, "Why weren't we prepared?"

Now I know why.

Civilized people cannot fathom, much less predict, the actions of evil people.

On September 11, dozens of capable airplane passengers allowed themselves to be overpowered by a handful of poorly armed terrorists because they did not comprehend the depth of hatred that motivated their captors.

On September 11, thousands of innocent people were murdered because too many Americans naively reject the reality that some nations are dedicated to the dominance of others. Many political pundits, pacifists and media personnel want us to forget the carnage. They say we must focus on the bravery of the rescuers and ignore the cowardice of the killers. They implore us to understand the motivation of the perpetrators. Major television stations have announced they will assist the healing process by not replaying devastating footage of the planes crashing into the Twin Towers.

I will not be manipulated.

I will not pretend to understand.

I will not forget.

I will not forget the liberal media who abused freedom of the press to

I will not forget that CBS anchor Dan Rather preceded President Bush's address to the nation with the snide remark, "No matter how you feel about him, he is still our president."

I will not forget that ABC TV anchor Peter Jennings questioned President Bush's motives for not returning immediately to Washington, DC and commented, "We're all pretty skeptical and cynical about Washington."

And I will not forget that ABC's Mark Halperin warned if reporters weren't informed of every little detail of this war, they aren't "likely-nor should they be expected-to show deference."

I will not isolate myself from my fellow Americans by pretending an attack on the USS Cole in Yemen was not an attack on the United States of America.

I will not forget the Clinton administration equipped Islamic terrorists and their supporters with the world's most sophisticated telecommunications equipment and encryption technology, thereby compromising America's ability to trace terrorist radio, cell phone, land lines, faxes and modem communications.

I will not be appeased with pointless, quick retaliatory strikes like those perfected by the previous administration.

I will not be comforted by "feel-good, do nothing" regulations like the silly, "Have your bags been under your control?" question at the airport.

I will not be influenced by so called, "antiwar” demonstrators" who exploit the right of __expression to chant anti-American obscenities.

I will not forget the moral victory handed the North Vietnamese by American war protesters who reviled and spat upon the returning soldiers, airmen, sailors and marines.

I will not be softened by the wishful thinking of pacifists who chose reassurance over reality.

I will embrace the wise words of Prime Minister Tony Blair who told the Labor Party conference, "They have no moral inhibition on the slaughter of the innocent. If they could have murdered not 7,000 but 70,000, does anyone doubt they would have done so and rejoiced in it?

There is no compromise possible with such people, no meeting of minds, no point of understanding with such terror. Just a choice: defeat it or be defeated by it. And defeat it we must!"

I will force myself to:
-hear the weeping
-feel the helplessness
-imagine the terror
-sense the panic
-smell the burning flesh
- experience the loss
- remember the hatred.
-visualize the people jumping

I sat in a movie theater, watching "Private Ryan" and asked myself, “Where did they find the courage?"

Now I know.

We have no choice. Living without liberty is not living.

-- Ed Evans, MGySgt., USMC (Ret.)
____________________________________________________________ ____
As this was emailed to me, I cannot guarantee the authenticity, but the thoughts are feelings are right on! I don't want to be healed from this, I don't want to forget, I want revenge!!! Whether a person is a terrorist, an evil dictator, a murderer, I want him eliminated from the gene pool. So are we winning? Every person who has the intention to murder innocents needs to be killed. And each time we do, we can chalk up one in the WIN COLUMN.

In the words spoken by William Wallace in Braveheart, but paraphrased for this case, "If you pacifists call yourselves Americans, I am ashamed to call myself one" As far as I am concerned, you aren't even Patriot's!!!!!
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Old 04-28-2004, 10:04 AM   #47
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I should have bought futures in ignorance...then I too could be rich.
I thought you already cornered the market on ignorance.
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Old 04-28-2004, 10:14 AM   #48
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I don't want to forget, I want revenge!!!
Gee, revenge has never been a solution or a fix to anything. It only satiates the bloodthirst. Revenge is why the terrorists fight. There are times to fight and not to fight. There are reasons to fight and not to fight. As a functioning body we have to fight to win, not to satisfy ourselves. It is a mission not an indulgence. Yours is a lesson in futility. Use common sense instead of reacting just to react.

IM, I can tell by your consistent references to Conservative Hollywood that you and other cons, as I have been saying all along, are way too influenced by Hollywood. Your visions of reality exist in Rambo movies and Clint Eastwood and Ah-nold flicks. Get a clue, things don't really work that way.

Once we kill one person in Iraq, it angers ten people in Iraq. They are not nameless, faceless people. The situation in Fallujah was incensed because we killed 17 protestors there about 9 months ago. If we go in and raid Fallujah it is seen as a city by Iraqis. We might as well at that point concede the war because all we will be doing is setting up Iraqi citizens vs. USA and that was never our purpose in the beginning.

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Old 04-28-2004, 11:22 AM   #49
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What you fail to realize is that this was NOT STATE SPONSORED. It is an individual cell.
Prove it. You can't, you can only make assumptions, much like the intelligence agencies of the smartest/best equipped nations on Earth did. Oh yeah, keep forgetting that Emarr board readers are MUCH better informed than stupid intelligence agencies.

before you go stereotyping anyone
And to back this up, we have these little gems from the genius himself:

We know Republicans have all you sheep in their nets
you and other cons, as I have been saying all along, are way too influenced by Hollywood.
you cons tend to think of everything in black and white
George W. and his band of merry rednecks
Aren't all of those little tidbits pretty much lumping everyone with possibly SOME similar ideas into one group? sorta like stereotyping....

I don't care what all of you Monday morning quarterbacks think, truthfully. The decision was made, by people with far more knowledge than you or I, to pre-empt possible dangers/attacks on US citizens. It's fact, it happened. Now, either be proud to be an American, and support those who are there, or move. I don't give a flying fuck about that either.

Second guessing and trying to politicize shit for a political party are fucking stupid. If you truly, TRULY BELIEVE, that Bush invaded Iraq, not out of a sense of protecting Americans, but to line his pockets....DUCK! because the black helicopters are circling now....

BTW, I fucking hate pacifist retards who think everything can be solved with hugs and flowers. I mean, it's worked so many times in human history.

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Old 04-28-2004, 11:29 AM   #50
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Violence begets violence, wars beget wars.


I'm not some crazy pascifist (look up the idiots who did the human shield thing), i do believe that there are times when fighting is necessary, but it should be saved as a last resort.

Sending troops to Afghanistan to find Osama was a good thing to do. Sending troops to Iraq based on heresay information about Saddam supposedly having weapons of mass destruction was not.


That patriotic manifesto is laughable. The person depicted as the narrator is about as unamerican as those he describes.

I will not forget the Clinton administration equipped Islamic terrorists and their supporters with the world's most sophisticated telecommunications equipment and encryption technology, thereby compromising America's ability to trace terrorist radio, cell phone, land lines, faxes and modem communications.
Lets not forget previous administrations (as in before clinton) that also sold them guns, ammo, missle supplies, etc.


I will not be comforted by "feel-good, do nothing" regulations like the silly, "Have your bags been under your control?" question at the airport
So he's making the born-again patriots feel that airport security should involve more methods that infringe on our personal freedoms.

I will not be appeased with pointless, quick retaliatory strikes like those perfected by the previous administration.
He wants to watch a country suffer under our might, make them cower in fear so that they won't attack us again. Which one is the terrorist again?

I will embrace the wise words of Prime Minister Tony Blair who told the Labor Party conference, "They have no moral inhibition on the slaughter of the innocent. If they could have murdered not 7,000 but 70,000, does anyone doubt they would have done so and rejoiced in it?
Neither does the narrator it seems.

I will not forget that CBS anchor Dan Rather preceded President Bush's address to the nation with the snide remark, "No matter how you feel about him, he is still our president."

I will not forget that ABC TV anchor Peter Jennings questioned President Bush's motives for not returning immediately to Washington, DC and commented, "We're all pretty skeptical and cynical about Washington."

And I will not forget that ABC's Mark Halperin warned if reporters weren't informed of every little detail of this war, they aren't "likely-nor should they be expected-to show deference."
How did they abuse their freedom? By having an honest thought based on the opinions of millions Americans throughout the country? So he's frowning on news anchors for being critical of the government, hmmm....


[quote]I sat in a movie theater, watching "Private Ryan" and asked myself, “Where did they find the courage?"

Now I know.[/quote[

Acting school.


I hate neo-patriotic bullshit like that.

Second guessing and trying to politicize shit for a political party are fucking stupid. If you truly, TRULY BELIEVE, that Bush invaded Iraq, not out of a sense of protecting Americans, but to line his pockets....DUCK! because the black helicopters are circling now....
Feh, Bush isn't getting any money out of this. He's just spending a metric fuckton of it.
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