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Old 04-26-2004, 02:52 PM   #1
Chiteng
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Default The truth about pro life

Its just another attempt by people with unhappy sex lives to try and control
the sex lives of other people. This constant refrain of abstinance as the
only real solution is the proof. There are several soultions, but they want to
see THAT one.
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Old 04-26-2004, 04:23 PM   #2
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So whats your point beyond your personal ignorance of reality?
And yes, Ignorance is a word with meaning.




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Old 04-26-2004, 04:29 PM   #3
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Yeah, because it couldn't possibly be the fact that it is the ONLY one that is 100% effective. Lets purposely choose a less effective method that encourages disease, mishaps, unwanted pregnancies, and then eventual murder.

Fact: No person who has used abstinence as birth control has EVER has ever murdered their child in an abortion.

It couldn't possibly be that we are tired of paying for single mothers to keep spreading their legs. I know of at least TWO people locally who have gone and got pregnant and don't know who the father is... and then done it again with someone else... and then one of them has just recently done it a third time. That's 5 children I am supporting already, and I don't have any of my own yet.

Now I'm aware your post is simply an attempt at board trolling. Obviously not all pro life people are for abstinence. Some are just anti murder.

Regardless, I'm not a big fan of abstinence, I enjoy sex. I do, however, believe in married sex where both (opposite sex) partners accept the fact that sex can be fun but equally accept that it can bring great responsibility.

Like it or not, pc or not, the family is a great structure when handled right. Sex outside of a marriage relationship is immoral from a spiritual standpoint, but even from a worldly standpoint it is demeaning to a relationship if someone has an ounce of self respect.

The whole "I like an experienced partner" is a lie continually told by people who are embarrassed that they married a whore or want to excuse their past behavior. I find it funny that people who claim to like sex cant fathom the joy of experiencing everything with one partner, learning together and growing together. Maybe I just got lucky with my wife, or maybe other people just dont have any imagination or ability to reason, but any way you look at it I didnt miss out at all by waiting, and they did by not.
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Old 04-26-2004, 04:41 PM   #4
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Hmmm? I endorse none of those lifestyles CNJmorris.
However I do resent seeing people try to control other people.
Murder is a legal term. It is defined by the state. You would be closer to the truth if you said 'kill'

You oppose sex as recreation, so do I actually. But I DONT hold myself
morally superior to those that do.

The facts are that if you remove the cheapest form of recreation they have,
and you are unwilling to allow/provide a new recreation, you will fail.

People are NOT sheep, and they will do as they wish. get used to that.


BTW we can assume that 'sex outside marriage' is more than umbrage
against adultery? You are decrying sex between consenting non-married?
Good luck pushing that boulder Sisyphus.
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Old 04-26-2004, 05:14 PM   #5
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So what you are saying is that if people don't like what you teach you should stop right?

Using that mentality the earth would still be flat. If you believe it then it must be true.

Murder is just as cheap a recreation. I guess we shouldn't try to remove it.

Cheap doesn't mean its a good one and like it or not irresponsible sex isn't good.

Adults will consent to a lot of things, doesn't mean I will support it.

As far as being sheep... I am doing what I want to do. The point isn't to keep people from doing what they want, the point is to educate people so that they desire more responsible and beautiful things.
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Old 04-26-2004, 05:42 PM   #6
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That is a laudible goal. However, you must also recognize what drives the
behavior. Couching things in terms of morality doesnt really help.
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Old 04-26-2004, 05:42 PM   #7
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Default Pro-Life Movement

Pro-Life has nothing to do with controling people. It has everything to do with defending them.

You could look at law as something that is "controling" you. No, it protects your right as a human being by granting restrictions such as murder, theft, and forms of violence.

When you murder a pregnant woman, you just murdered two people.

As for abstinence, it is the best birth control there is. Forcing it upon people isn't an option, it is their right. But with rights come responsibillities. With your right to freedom of speech for instance it has a responsibillity that if it endangers others it is not allowed. For example yelling,"FIRE!" in a building or phoning in a bomb threat.

When you have sex, you have responsibillities, no matter what you intended. If you get an STD, that is your fault. If you become responsible for another human life, you to are responsible for that.

And abortion is murder, no matter what way you cut is down to be.
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Old 04-26-2004, 05:51 PM   #8
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However Attica you are choosing to impose YOUR standards of what
'responsibilities' means. What if the target audience doesnt agree?

That is exactly why the Pro-lifers are doomed in the end to fail.

You must address the economics behind the problem.
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Old 04-26-2004, 06:22 PM   #9
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Pro murder will win, but that doesn't mean logical people will not speak up against it or accept it.

The reality is that logical people don't want condom use taught in school because abstinence is a better alternative. Why teach teenagers that sex is okay if you are safe if you can teach them to not have sex because they aren't married and because it is the ONLY safe way.

Saying "they will do it anyway" is cowardly and irresponsible. I didn't. I dated from 12 till I was married and before you say that people who are 12 don't know what dating is... I was a mature 12, and my first girlfriend was 16 (unless you count some chick when I was 10 who gave me a stick of gum that had "for the guy I like" written inside the wrapper. Strange how I remember thinking "hey, you opened my gum!" and "um, why did you give me some other guys gum?" at the same time. Oops, I'm getting off topic). I was alone with women at times. It is amazing how a brain can help you make responsible decisions.

Teaching your children to use a condom IF they have sex is like giving them a $20 bill and saying "don't waste this, but if you see something you need bring me the change." Why don't you just hire 2 out of work (if it's possible) porn stars to demonstrate proper use of a condom in case you hadn't already made it easy enough for them to screw up.

Saying to use a condom means sex is okay. I assure you that "sex is okay" is a message that stays in there head much longer than "for protection" and if they don't have one available then why not just go ahead?

The reality is that they don't want to teach abstenence because they can't look their kids in the eye and say "do as I say not as I do" since most of them are going to be divorced, on their second or third marriage, or never married in the first place.
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Old 04-26-2004, 07:29 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by AtticaX'Layan

And abortion is murder, no matter what way you cut is down to be.
And if the woman had a pregnancy which, if she tried to carry to full term, would in all likelihood kill her AND the child? Where do you go from there?

Honest question, not trying to bait.
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Old 04-26-2004, 07:46 PM   #11
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And if the woman had a pregnancy which, if she tried to carry to full term, would in all likelihood kill her AND the child? Where do you go from there?
With modern medicine, c-sections, etc a full term pregnancy killing the mother during birth is almost pure myth.
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Old 04-26-2004, 07:56 PM   #12
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I just want to know what sort of fucked up 16 year old goes for a 12 year old Catcen? I mean, if I was 12 and one of my buddies scored on a 16 year old I'd think he was the man, but from a removed perspective there just has to be something wrong with that girl. That's a sophomore in high school dating a 6th grader finishing up little league.

As to the rest of this thread it's typical conservajibberish. None of it is grounded in common sense, understanding, or logic- just the deep-seated desire to control other people's lives and impose their anachronistic ideas on everyone.
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Old 04-26-2004, 07:56 PM   #13
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I'm not talking about childbirth, I'm talking about the pregnancy itself.
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Old 04-26-2004, 09:16 PM   #14
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I mean, if I was 12 and one of my buddies scored on a 16 year old I'd think he was the man, but from a removed perspective there just has to be something wrong with that girl. That's a sophomore in high school dating a 6th grader finishing up little league.
I was shaving at 10 and 6'1" at 12. I weighed in at 180 and you could see my ribs, all my weight was in my frame (mostly shoulders). Not only did I act mature but I looked older. In fact, when we went out to dinners the waiter offered me the wine list and she got carded (neither of us drank). Not only did she date me, but she left her 18 year old boyfriend to do it. We dated until I was 16 and she was 20. And I'll be honest, I've never been good looking. Some girls just enjoy a good conversation and a sense of humor more than a number that seldom means much or looks that mean less. I also dated a 15 year old when I was 19 (18 when we started), and it wasn't for the reason that most guys date younger girls.
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Old 04-26-2004, 10:29 PM   #15
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Default Responsibillities Indeed

Romans would put children they didn't want on hillsides. Was it imposing "responsibillities" on them to get rid of that practice? No. It was human rights. Once you concieve a child, you are responsible for two people.

For example... You should not smoke when pregnant, do drugs, do things to endager that child. Are you not responsible ofr its well being? Indeed you are.

Your original point was Pro-Life was just to control people... No, it is to protect human life. That is its goal. Pro-Choice is the belief that a woman has the right to murder a child in her womb, or a child half born.

A lot of points are made... Rape, child killing the mother, incest, etc...

But in the hundreds of thousands of innocent children burned to death, ripped apart, and poisoned, how many of these "exceptions" most people make really are in them? Probably less than 1%, my bet no more than 3%.

Common scenerio is two people slept together, birth control failed, and they decided it was right to murder a human being. No different than throwing it in a trash can.
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Old 04-27-2004, 06:04 AM   #16
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Murder is state defined. If the state says it isnt murder, then it isnt.
It is exactly that aspect that you dont like.

As for myself, I was a product of the era I was raised in.
I didnt give a damn what my parents thought or her parents thought.
I did whatever the hell I wanted to do.

As a far older and sadly wiser man, I can say yes it was a mistake,
but not for the bullshit reasons being given here.

It was a mistake, because I thought I was in LOVE, and I didnt realize
that women can and do change their minds.
Notice that making babies is absent from that line of regret.
Of course I would never have sex w a woman that I wasnt willing to marry
so I shrugged off that issue.

You cannot control other peoples sexuality. Stop using abortion as the foil
for that agenda.
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Old 04-27-2004, 06:31 AM   #17
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Horm, you are so correct, MURDER is NEVER grounded in common sense. Susan Smith drowning her two young boys in that lake is absolutely no different than if she aborted them at 3 months term. (Yes, this is my opinion, and NOTHING anyone can say will change it, as nothing I say will change your opinion)

Also, if some of you want to term "sex" as recreation, that is your prerogative, but as for me, I prefer to consider "sex" the ultimate opening of oneself to another for the reasons of love, commitment, honor and integrity.
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Old 04-27-2004, 06:56 AM   #18
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Murder is state defined. If the state says it isnt murder, then it isnt.
It is exactly that aspect that you dont like.
So, when someone pleads down to first degree manslaughter because the state doesn't want to take the chance of a person getting off on a technicality then all of a sudden he never murdered?

I am surprised that you are willing to give up the freedom to call something what it is and defer to the states opinion. I can only imagine that if the state declared it murder then it would be murder? So you aren't pro choice you are pro state?
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Old 04-27-2004, 07:00 AM   #19
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Sex is fucking, IM. And fucking is fun. Given the strong emotional side effects and potential longterm consequences of sex, I do agree that one should generally only have sex with people they feel quite strongly about. However, the trumped up idea of sex as the ultimate opening up etc...is total horseshit. When I see a good looking woman, my gut, and Thor- Hammer of the Gods (hey, we all give ours a name ok ) tell me "Go get it!" That's what sex is. Think back a few years when you still had a pair IM and realize that you've been brainwashed into thinking sex is something it isn't.

You're talking about love- and those are not guaranteed to line up all the time.
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Old 04-27-2004, 07:48 AM   #20
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Pro-Life has nothing to do with controling people
And invading Iraq has nothing to do with occupying it. It is all about perception. The fact that men tell women what they can do with their bodies is the problem entirely.
I would never have an abortion if I were a woman. If I impregnated a woman I would do everything in my power to not have that child aborted. However, I am not qualified to make those decisions for a woman.
If you cons feel so strongly about this, then the answer is not in protesting and fighting against women. The answer is in teaching woman the spiritual scars left upon them.
I don't care what you blockheads suggest, abstinence is never a social solution. It may be one person's solution. Those people vowing abstinence are breaking those pledges and they are leading to more STDs amongst them than others who never pleaded that way. These people also are experiencing more STDs than those who have had sex more freely.
http://www.dailystar.com/dailystar/news/13162.php
Why? Because they did not learn (either by practice or education) about safe sex.
Let's face it, sex is a primal human instinct. It is as basic as eating and seeking shelter. We have opportunities to reduce pregnancies, STDs and other results unwanted that come from sex. Instead of embracing that as a good thing, many conservatives demean it because it doesn't espouse their point of view. I am sorry, but it IS a good thing. Is it the correct solution? No! Is it one of them? Yes!

One last point- can anyone tell me where pre-marital sex is not allowed in the Bible? From all I can see, the bible talks about Fornication as sexual immorality, but it refers to it as beastiality, incest and adultery. The Bible also speaks against prostitution. There is, however, nowhere that mentions pre-marital sex as being immoral.
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Old 04-27-2004, 08:51 AM   #21
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let me get this straight...you would make a rape victim that became pregnant as a result of that to carry out the pregnancy to full term?
you pro-lifers have a twisted sense of reality. You go and tell a rape victim that she as to carry the fetus and that she as to give birth and take care of that baby.

sorry but I am pro-choice just because I dont believe I can tell you what to do with your life, its your life you live it as you please.
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Old 04-27-2004, 09:09 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Ramesses Elliscer
let me get this straight...you would make a rape victim that became pregnant as a result of that to carry out the pregnancy to full term?
you pro-lifers have a twisted sense of reality. You go and tell a rape victim that she as to carry the fetus and that she as to give birth and take care of that baby.

sorry but I am pro-choice just because I dont believe I can tell you what to do with your life, its your life you live it as you please.

Bro, you and I see eye to eye so often its scary.
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Old 04-27-2004, 09:28 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune
Sex is fucking, IM. And fucking is fun. Given the strong emotional side effects and potential longterm consequences of sex, I do agree that one should generally only have sex with people they feel quite strongly about. However, the trumped up idea of sex as the ultimate opening up etc...is total horseshit. When I see a good looking woman, my gut, and Thor- Hammer of the Gods (hey, we all give ours a name ok ) tell me "Go get it!" That's what sex is. Think back a few years when you still had a pair IM and realize that you've been brainwashed into thinking sex is something it isn't.
haha, exactly!

(keeps his name a secret )

One of man's basics instincts is to well, reproduce, to spread his seed to as many women as possible to ensure his gene survival. We might not be actually spreading the genes, but the concept of sex is still there. It isn't till one "learns" and then they withhold or hide that feeling. Almost like "Adam and Eve" they were running around ass naked with each other and didn't see anything wrong with it, till the bitch ate the apple and then threatened Adam with no sex till he ate it!
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Old 04-27-2004, 09:52 AM   #24
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Why? Because they did not learn (either by practice or education) about safe sex.
Well then, lets not take drugs to cure lethal diseases, because those who don't know about the drugs die.

Not very logical. The solution is better education.

Let's face it, sex is a primal human instinct. It is as basic as eating and seeking shelter.
So is rape. Want sex? Have it. It's a primal instinct. It is an act of reasoning that makes you want to have the other person consent, and even want it also.

One last point- can anyone tell me where pre-marital sex is not allowed in the Bible? From all I can see, the bible talks about Fornication as sexual immorality, but it refers to it as beastiality, incest and adultery. The Bible also speaks against prostitution. There is, however, nowhere that mentions pre-marital sex as being immoral.
Like it or not sexual reference in the Bible is always made in the context of marriage or immorality. It is one or the other. The implication is clear and only those who want to deny it are willing to over look it.

People need to be religious or not. Trying to say you are religious and then changing the beliefs of your religion for the sake of convenience is crazy and ignorant. You can keep asking what you can get away with or you can ask what God's design was. What was His intention?

Is God serious about marriage? You tell me; He compared the Church to a bride (Eph 5:25). Is He serious about purity? When His people mingled with other nations He said they played the harlot.

The Bible does speak out against sex outside of marriage.
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Old 04-27-2004, 10:07 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by AtticaX'Layan
Pro-Choice is the belief that a woman has the right to murder a child in her womb, or a child half born.
*CRASH*

Wrong! Pro-choice is an idea that every person deserves the right to choose for themselves. Once again, this issue is falsely painted in black and white.
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