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Old 04-27-2004, 05:41 PM   #51
Gerick
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Inm, me saying this is amazing but your are dumber then ME.

next time your in a pool of water drop a leaf, or a pool toy in the water, now move twords it, what happens? the displaced water moves the object further away from you, the same thing happens in the womb, the child DOES NOT have any muscle that could allow it to do that.

scratch that, next time you are in a pool just drown yourself
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Old 04-27-2004, 06:38 PM   #52
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Would it be possible to get a vote on whether this post is the most hijacked post in Steam Vent ?
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Old 04-28-2004, 03:10 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Kerryn
Hey Inmountains...answer my question.

Raped 12 year old
Now suffering AIDS,
Baby wont live past the age of 10. What little life it does have will be full of illness and pain.
Mother told that due to her size the child is likely to kill her.

Would you allow an abortion in this case?
Generally speaking, I'm opposed to the killing of unborn children, regardless of the reason. If I were personally faced with one of the situations listed above, I'd choose to see it through and hope for the best. I understand that not everyone feels that way, and will leave it to them to decide.

I am opposed to abortions of convenience. By this, I mean the pregnancies that weren't forced, or where there aren't impending health concerns. You choose to have sex, and sometimes there are consequences to be dealt with. Don't make a defenseless child pay for your inability to cope. You chose to behave as an adult, now act like one and take responsibility for your actions.

I also despise this argument: "When does it become a life?" In my mind (or heart, not sure on this one), it becomes a life at the point of conception. It becomes a growing, living being that has the potential to thrive, to love, to be loved, to participate in the world around them and to choose their own path in life.

How do I word this? In my opinion, no one wants to look like a monster. No one wants to be the guy/gal that supports baby-killing. I feel almost like they're saying, "Oh, it's not a baby. It's just a random collection of cells that we're removing from the body." so that they don't appear inhumane or barbaric. It's just playing with words, but in the end, it's all the same thing: the loss of a life by deliberate, intentional means.

Kerryn, I realize your post wasn't directed at me. It just made me think: It's not the situations you listed that I have the problem with. It's the unnecessary deaths that seem to result from the concept that life is disposable if it becomes inconvenient to others.
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Old 04-28-2004, 06:51 AM   #54
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Once again you "choose" whilst still advocating the removal of choice.

The problem is not that abortion creates irresponsibility. The irresponsibility remains no matter if the solution to that irresponsibility is removed.

Teenage girls won't suddenly start thinking, "Hey, no more abortions. I better not put out" because they arent thinking of that in the first place. If they were thinking they'd use contraception.

Removal of abortion won't stop condoms breaking, or spermicidal lubricant failing to work. So those people are forced into having a baby they don't want. They don't suddenly think "We're having a baby and we're going to love it and we'll be so happy"

Trust me. It's better not to have the baby then have one that knows it was never wanted, never loved, and was a burden to it's parents.

So what are you really forcing here. You think it's making the situation any better?

There is no black and white in this matter. There's only shades of grey.

I still want Inmountains to answer my question. In my example would he allow an abortion?
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Old 04-28-2004, 06:57 AM   #55
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Trust me. It's better not to have the baby then have one that knows it was never wanted, never loved, and was a burden to it's parents.
I disagree. There are plenty of couples out there who would love to have children, but are preventive from conceiving one of their own. And in some cases, they're willing to pay for the expenses of childbirth, so that isn't a burden on the mother. There are always alternatives to abortion if you simple just don't want the baby.
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Old 04-28-2004, 10:43 AM   #56
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Inm, me saying this is amazing but your are dumber then ME.
I found this funny since the sentence is laced with grammatical mistakes.

Since this thread started out talking about freedom of speech, I just thought I'd point out that freedom of speech or choice for that matter at least in this country is not as cut and dry as most of us think. We technically do not have freedom of speech or freedom or choice delegated to us by the federal government. It would be advisable to lookup your own state's constitutions to see what civil rights and liberties you actually do have. If you've ever read the 1st Amendment it does not say that American citizens have freedom of speech. It says:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

It just says Congress shall pass no law. Semantics I know, but anyone who knows anything about law knows that it is all about semantics. The Bill of Rights does not state that Congress will pass no law abridging freedom of choice (abortion issue), so the way I interpret law, the government if it so choses does legally have the right to make abortion illegal even in extreme and remote cases like Kerryn presented.
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Old 04-28-2004, 12:45 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Kerryn
Once again you "choose" whilst still advocating the removal of choice.
Was this one directed at me? Actually, I don't advocate the removal of choice. I was stating my own personal belief, and even made this statement:


Originally Posted by Brigiid
I understand that not everyone feels that way, and will leave it to them to decide.
to make it clear that while I may not choose that path for myself, that I understood others were free to make their own choice.

I am pro-life in that I respect and value all life, regardless of where it came from, and think it should be protected. I am pro-choice in that I think this is a matter that should be dealt with on an individual, personal, moral basis, rather than legislative. Keeping that in mind, I selfishly wish that people would choose to do the responsible thing, but I realize that's not my right.

Again, I'm referring primarily to abortions of convenience, as that's where the root of my conflict lies.
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Old 04-28-2004, 01:41 PM   #58
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Kerryn, my older sister is mentally handicapped due to injury while in the womb. Although she is 47, she had the mentality of about a 7 year old. Should my mother have aborted her after the injury? Of course not. She is a loving person, works full time, and enjoys life. Who am I or you to decide what life is worth living and what life is not worth living?

But to answer your question, there are the exceptions to this. If my older sister had gotten pregnant, then I would say to terminate the pregnancy. She would be incapable of handling the emotional, physical, mental and social stresses that go along with being pregnant, and most likely, she and the baby would die before child birth. There are medical exceptions. But 99.9 percent of abortions are done because it is just inconvienent for the woman to be pregnant? Boo hoo, cry me a river. You made your bed now lie in it. Or is it the LIBERAL WAY to always try and find the easy way out of life's troubles? That's what I just don't understand about you liberals, you don't want to be accountable and responsible for you actions. If you don't like the consequences, blame someone else because there is just no way you could be wrong!!!!
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Old 04-28-2004, 02:56 PM   #59
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Hah, IM, you just illustrated how weak your position is by offering up an exception condition. Don't you remember the whole "Who am I or you to decide what life is worth living and what life is not worth living?" line of argument you used in your previous paragraph?

By the way, are you sure you didn't suffer a similar injury to your sister's?
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Old 04-28-2004, 07:40 PM   #60
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I think he got shocked in the womb while his mother was licking lightsockets
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Old 04-28-2004, 08:44 PM   #61
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I would have to say that the majority of people posting so vehemently FOR abortion - are those who have never had one, nor known someone who has had one - and seen the total empitness that these women feel year after year. A pain that never goes away, that is never releived, and that in many cases, requires counseling to overcome.

There are always exceptions, but the majority of abortions are NOT done for the exceptional circumstances. They are mostly done for convience.

No, I have not had one, I don't believe I could. I did watch a very dear friend who had one go through agony on a yearly basis, adn that was just the start of the emotional problems it caused. I also am close to 4 others who had abortions. None were for any higher notion or cause or corcumstance. All were because they were young and didn't want to have babies yet. All 5 could have - all were healthy, and had money and family support. The ultimate in selfishness.

I also know a woman on the other side who could not conceive and would have loved to have a baby.

Maybe you should walk a mile in their shoes before telling them how safe and good and fine of a choice it is to have an abortion, or before you support them in it. And while yu're at it, be sure to tell them to get over it, that it was their choice and they exercised their right.

I am against abortion, except in very extreme cases, because it is abused.

I am also realistic and I understand that taking away the choice will not change the irresponsible behaviour.

It is a life. Plain and simple. Saying its a bunch of cells without feelings and/or a right to live is just ridiculous imo.
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Old 04-29-2004, 12:08 AM   #62
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If you outlaw it, people will go back to rusty hangers and that will cause even more deaths, no, i dont think we should make it illegal again.
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Old 04-29-2004, 04:12 AM   #63
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While I'm not stating that people wouldn't find ways to have abortions if it were made illegal, I question that it would cause more deaths. Perhaps it would cause some to consider other options, such as adoption, or perhaps to some it would be a preventive measure, since there wouldn't be an "out" if you accidently got pregnant.

Personally, I wish it were physically impossible to abort a pregnancy. Not for the reason that it kills babies, but for the fact that it brings out the worst in people. I mean, how many doctors have you heard that have been murdered outside their abortion clinics? Kind of a strange way for a pro-lifer to get their message across, if you ask me.
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Old 04-29-2004, 06:02 AM   #64
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"By the way, are you sure you didn't suffer a similar injury to your sister's?"
Hormadrune

PLEASE, you are so DAMN predictable!! Hell, I should have just posted FOR you just to save you the extreme effort that 'come back' taxed on your brain.

But since I like to post little tidbits about my life, let me enlighten you all a bit. My mother had somewhere between 10-15 miscarriages due to her own health issues. This was back in the 1950's, so medicine is not where it is today. The doctor's were giving her experimental medication, mostly to build up her blood iron which was low and causing her to lose pregnancies right and left. The medicine she took while pregnant with me increased the iron and oxygen content of her blood, and the doctor's said this would most likely increase the intelligence of the child she was carrying. They also said that over 90 percent of the women who took this drug had female children, so she had a strong chance of having a girl. So I guess that makes me a highly intelligent female inside of a sexy, handsome males body!!! The best of both worlds, no monthly cycle but still the intelligence!!!!
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Old 04-29-2004, 06:04 AM   #65
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I always knew you were a confused soul IM, but I didn't realize your confusions went so deep as to include gender identity.
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Old 04-29-2004, 07:07 AM   #66
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Roflmfao!!!!
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Old 04-29-2004, 08:18 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Wildane
While I'm not stating that people wouldn't find ways to have abortions if it were made illegal, I question that it would cause more deaths. Perhaps it would cause some to consider other options, such as adoption, or perhaps to some it would be a preventive measure, since there wouldn't be an "out" if you accidently got pregnant.

Personally, I wish it were physically impossible to abort a pregnancy. Not for the reason that it kills babies, but for the fact that it brings out the worst in people. I mean, how many doctors have you heard that have been murdered outside their abortion clinics? Kind of a strange way for a pro-lifer to get their message across, if you ask me.
people would take a wire hanger, strip the shit they put on it, put water on it and let it rust, then they would use it to abort the child, eather by stabbing the featus(sp) or letting the rust and the germs kill it, the problem with this is 5 times out of 10 it cause toxic shock syndrom, which is fatal in most instances, not to mention all the back ally arbortion jobs people did for quick cash back when it wasnt legal, i honestly dont want to go down an allyway and find an aborted baby, dead mother etc just to suit your moral purpose, if you cant prevent it then do damage control.

i do agree PETA, pro-lifers and others do some fucked up things, its called being fuckwits
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Old 04-29-2004, 11:45 AM   #68
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I highly doubt that making abortion illegal is going to cause a widespread epidemic of home-made abortions. The "attraction", if you want to call it that, to current abortion procedures is that it's relatively clean, clinical, and professionally done. Take your average scared teenager or young adult woman, and they're not going to opt for the back-alley abortions that you describe. They may not want to be pregnant, but that doesn't mean that they're willing to go to any means necessary to get rid of their child, or to subject themselves to the health risks of going that route.

I think part of the problem is that an abortion is a relatively easy fix for a bad situation. Like someone (Wildane?) said, remove that as a legal, viable option, and you may have mothers decide to keep the child through pregnancy and consider other options after they're born. It's as feasible a prediction as your prediction that women will opt to shove a wire hanger up their hoo-ha and take care of it that way.
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Old 04-29-2004, 06:42 PM   #69
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Bullshit, most teenage girls are more afraid of their father then a wire hanger some guy tells them "will work perfectly fine, docters just want your cash"

it was common enough that there was a ban on wire hangers in some areas.

health risks? know better? you know the stupid shit kids do when they are in panic mode, and you know there are ALOT of girls who still think you can get pregnant by giving someone a bj, you cant really use "common sense" as an arguement here.

lets look at some of the other lovely ways that im sure hurt the baby(give it pain) more then a doctor doing it.

boyfriend/husband beating the mother in order to kill the child, mother getting VERY drunk several times in a effort to kill it, mother runs herself into the corner of a desk several times, mother ODs on sleeping pills in a effort to kill child, the list goes on and on and the number of people that managed to kill themselves and their babys are just as long as those that did it without hurting themselves


im sorry but the legal way is better
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Old 04-30-2004, 01:20 AM   #70
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Talking of predictability Inmountains, here's a small template for you that you can save in Notepad and use when you post here

----CUT HERE-----

OMFG!!! ROFL!!! !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CAN YOU NOT READ!!!!!

----CUT HERE-----

Thought I'd save you some typing time.
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