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Old 04-23-2004, 08:10 AM   #1
crimsonedge
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Default Freedom of speech...

John Kerry Campaign Won't Respond to Destroying Woman's Abortion Sign

by Steven Ertelt
LifeNews.com Editor
March 18, 2004

Washington, DC (LifeNews.com) -- The campaign of Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry has refused to respond to requests for comment as to why a campaign staffer destroyed a woman's sign at a recent Kerry rally. Kerry saw Rebecca Porter's sign, saying "My Abortion Hurt Me," and a staffer tore it to shreds only moments after.

In an exclusive LifeNews.com story last week, Porter said Kerry was "shocked and surprised" to see her sign. She said a campaign official then took her sign and tore it to pieces. The same staff member destroy a similar sign brought by Porter's friend Cindy.

LifeNews.com has made four attempts to obtain comment from the Kerry campaign.

Kerry's Florida campaign office refused to comment on the situation saying the national headquarters in Washington fields all media calls.

Adam Abram, a press assistant at Kerry's national office, said he was unable to comment and would have to find a Florida campaign representative to respond to our request for an interview.

When the Kerry campaign failed to call back, LifeNews.com spoke with Abram two more times. On both occasions, Abram would not comment and would not provide contact information for a campaign representative who would.

Porter isn't pleased at the Kerry campaign's refusal to respond.

"I'm very disappointed that he will not acknowledge what happened at his rally," Porter told LifeNews.com

"As a presidential candidate for all the people -- including me -- I think he should speak to his staff and apologize to Cindy and I for their actions and guarantee that it won't happen again to other women."

Porter said other women may attend Kerry events to help him understand abortion's negative impact on women.

"My concern is for other women who may be planning on going to his other rallies. I don't want them to have their property destroyed either. I want their freedom of speech rights protected," Porter said.

Porter, who is the Florida director of Operation Outcry Silent No More, a group that helps women share how their abortions hurt them, said she si curious to know Kerry's thoughts about her sign.

"As a supporter of abortion rights, how does he feel about the fact that abortion does hurt many women and men," Porter told LifeNews.com. "Abortion takes the life of our children and leaves many very wounded individuals."

At the event, Porter made her way to an area where Kerry was shaking hands.

"Then it happened," Porter explains. "He reached up to shake a hand in the back and his eyes went up to my sign. He read it and then he looked into the crowd to see who was holding it -- and he looked me directly in the eyes."

"I hope he saw my pain. I was not angry, just pleading with him to understand. You could see the shock and surprise on his face," Porter said.

But within seconds, a Kerry campaign staff member approached Porter and grabbed her sign.

"You can't have that sign here," the Kerry staffer said.

The sign tore and Porter let go. After he had possession of it, the Kerry staffer "tore it to pieces" and walked away. "He wouldn't even let me have the pieces," Porter said.




http://www.lifenews.com/nat387.html

Good thing the Democrats so strongly support freedom of speech...I guess.
Didn't see this until today but it is interesting that Kerry wont respond to it even to deny it. I suppose he hopes it will just go away.

edited typo
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Old 04-23-2004, 09:36 AM   #2
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So somebody took advantage of their freedom to have an abortion, and it didn't work out the way they'd hoped, and they're mad because the party that supports that very freedom doesn't want to listen to them bitch and moan about it?

Right.
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Old 04-23-2004, 10:29 AM   #3
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Two words about free speech-
Antonin Scalia!!!
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Old 04-23-2004, 10:32 AM   #4
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Old 04-23-2004, 11:26 AM   #5
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So somebody took advantage of their freedom to have an abortion, and it didn't work out the way they'd hoped, and they're mad because the party that supports that very freedom doesn't want to listen to them bitch and moan about it?
Well, that's one way to look at it. Not the way I'd choose, but one way. Another way to look at it might be that she had an abortion and found out first-hand the damage it can cause and is now using that experience to warn others. Nothing wrong with a change of heart.
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Old 04-23-2004, 11:42 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by FanonFaythunder
So somebody took advantage of their freedom to have an abortion, and it didn't work out the way they'd hoped, and they're mad because the party that supports that very freedom doesn't want to listen to them bitch and moan about it?

Right.
Well, you think that is bad Fanon ? Check this out:

Plaintiffs win suit but no money
for underage abortion
By RON NISSIMOV
Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle
A jury Wednesday awarded no money to a woman and her father who sued an osteopath for performing an abortion while she was a minor without notifying the parent.

Ninety percent of the blame was assigned to the woman for using a fake identification indicating she was not a minor, the panel decided.

But the jury also found the doctor negligent, allowing both sides to claim victory in the first-of-its-kind lawsuit that could help determine how extensively physicians should verify the identification of women seeking abortions.

Cherise Mosley Hughes and her father, Frederick Mosley, 48, sued Dr. Douglas A. Karpen, alleging that he violated a 1999 Texas law requiring that minors' parents be notified at least 48 hours before an abortion. Hughes, who was seven weeks shy of her 18th birthday at the time of the August 2000 abortion, used an ID she obtained from a supermarket to convince Karpen and employees of his clinic that she was 18.


http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metro/2506899


It amazes me that a lawyer would take this case, but until we get some reforms it will continue to happen.
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Old 04-23-2004, 11:42 AM   #7
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There any mainstream news items about this? LifeNews.com doesn't strike me as the sort of source I can count on for unbiased or even factual reporting. Not denying or acknowledging the account, but give me a break- LifeNews.com? /snort
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Old 04-25-2004, 09:33 AM   #8
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Well, that's one way to look at it. Not the way I'd choose, but one way. Another way to look at it might be that she had an abortion and found out first-hand the damage it can cause and is now using that experience to warn others. Nothing wrong with a change of heart.
I can appreciate that point of view, but in that case she's protesting the wrong people. Kerry didn't convince her to get that abortion, he just represents the party that wants to keep the freedom to make that choice available.
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Old 04-25-2004, 11:45 PM   #9
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So it was wrong for her to stand at a party rally that supports the murder of children?

And it was right for somebody to grab and tear up her sign?

Because she pointed out an abortion hurt her and points at the injustice that society will put on women to pressure them to abort?

Women like Norma McCorvey, you'd know who as Jane Roe, who is Pro-Life now, by the way, were pressured by society that it was alright, safe, and that what was within her was not a child.

Any concieved being biologically is an independant living thing. Anything beyond that is opinion. You draw a line, saying it is a child after so many months... It is a living thing now, no, now, no, now... Pushing that line so far so where people determine it is "worthy" enough to be a human being. You can only imagine once you cross that line so many times, it vanishes... And as children are being actually born, they are being aborted in a cruel manner that by all means must be the most painful and barbaric experience a human being could ever have.

That line can be stepped over... injecting the child with a lethal dose after it is born... Already happening in a few places in the world. Indeed, in time, and with enough denial the a defenseless human being is very much that, you could pull that off.

I don't think the children murdered have had their "right to choose".
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Old 04-26-2004, 12:03 AM   #10
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Stop with the think of the children bullshit, there are many times when abortions are a valid life choice

1) when carrying it to term will most likly kill the mother
2) when the child is brain dead, or extremely retard(almost vegi state)
3) when she is raped, i wouldnt want the little bastard rapist gene to keeping going, being from a broken home further increases the chances of crime becoming provalent in the child life
4) when the child cant be cared for by mother, father or outside sources, for example in china they have so many kids up for adoption that they had to water down the baby food, the staff did it a little to much and ended up being responsible for over 500 infant deaths, and nothing was done to fix the the problems or to punish the workers
5) when the child will come out with aids for sure, i mean this as mercy to the baby, that is a HORRIBLE and short life, way to tragic for the child imo

i could think of more but the pro-lifers might rip me limb from limb (have to laugh at the pro life woman i saw on TV slug a pro choice woman, REAL saint )
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Old 04-26-2004, 12:06 AM   #11
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oh and if you want that freedom of speech as ammo for your arsenal, bush was the first president to make "free speech" zones FAR away from camera view, ever wonder why you didnt see any anti war signs when he landed in is little plane?
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Old 04-26-2004, 01:59 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Gerick
3) when she is raped, i wouldnt want the little bastard rapist gene to keeping going, being from a broken home further increases the chances of crime becoming provalent in the child life
Wow, there's a rapist gene now? Is it hereditary? If it is, and we're just slaves to biology, could one commit a sex crime, then sue their parents for passing them the rapist gene and making it all happen? Could we claim something along the lines of 'temporary insanity' in rape cases caused by hand-me-down DNA? Wowza! So many questions, so little time!

Bad homes raise good kids, and vice versa, all the time. People are born with this thing called freedom of choice. Sometimes they overcome their obstacles and surroundings and become better than their environment. Sometimes they're not born perfect, but end up contributing to the world and the lives around them just the same. It seems a shame to give up hope before they've had a chance to shine.
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Old 04-26-2004, 03:28 AM   #13
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Wow, there's a rapist gene now? Is it hereditary?
The need to rape isn't genetic but it can be hereditary, in the same way that the mannerisms I share with my father, aren't genetic but I did learn them off him.

In rape cases this argument doesn't stand since very few rape victims have contact with their rapist.

However, all that said, there is evidence which suggests that violence is genetic. A person who is abused is likely to abuse later in life, and therefore a person who is the product of a rape could also be more likely to rape in adult life also.

Nuff said, doesn't really support the idea of aborting a pregnancy, since anyone can be violent no matter what the circumstances.

The bigger argument for aborting a rape/pregnancy is for the mother who will relive her rape every time she sees her child. And a bigger argument then that is when all the little 5 year olds have to stand up in class and tell everyone what their father does for a living.
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Old 04-26-2004, 04:25 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Kerryn
However, all that said, there is evidence which suggests that violence is genetic. A person who is abused is likely to abuse later in life, and therefore a person who is the product of a rape could also be more likely to rape in adult life also.
I'd suggest that this has more to do with learning behavioral patterns than genetics. I don't think the pattern of abuse and violence are restricted to those incidents where the abuser is genetically linked to the victim (where they are a future perpetrator).
I think it's fair to say that people can be pre-disposed to certain behavior, but at the end of the day it's their choice. Anything less goes even further down the road of absolving responsibility from people for their actions (the devil made me do it!).
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Old 04-26-2004, 04:55 AM   #15
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You know where I stand on the matter so I have little input except a solution for stopping the "slippery slope" argument about, "When is it a child?"

Hindsight. We can look back at millions upon millions of premature births, and make our decision based on that. Here's how the process might look:

Determine at what age is there a statistically significant chance of survival. Say, a four month old fetus might have a 90% chance to live, a three month fetus a 70% chance, and so on... decide whatever % is most reasonable.

Read this carefully and realize i'm not actually talking about premature births, but instead allowing us to determine at what age we can consider a fetus to be a child, using information at our disposal.

Other than that, if parents choosing an abortion are made well aware of the risks involved I can't say much else. It's a choice you made, so don't go trying to blame anyone else for it.
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Old 04-26-2004, 05:23 AM   #16
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You disappoint me. But then again, I was idealistic when I was 19 too. I was also pro abortion. The POINT here is Freedom of Speech. Why take it any further? Maybe this lady is a Kerry supporter, but just wanted her viewpoint to be known.

I also married a woman who had an abortion before I met her, and lived with her for 12 years. I can tell you the psychological and emotional damage that having an abortion caused her.

If you want to discuss abortion, fine, but this thread is about FREEDOM OF SPEECH. If a Pro Abortion supporter showed up at a Republican Party with a sign, I would support their right to have the sign there. I would boo them, but that is just MY Freedom of Speech, I would not destroy their property.

(Just as a side note, regarding Abortion, you are either PRO or ANTI, stop the 'pro choice' or 'pro life' BS, call a spade a spade for goodness sake)
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Old 04-26-2004, 06:20 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Inmountains
Just as a side note, regarding Abortion, you are either PRO or ANTI, stop the 'pro choice' or 'pro life' BS, call a spade a spade for goodness sake
Wrong- very few people are "Pro-abortion." Pro-choice is exactly what it is. There's a fucking collossal difference between those 2 terms and your terminology is biased to portray the view that opposes your own as a side that prefers death to life.
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Old 04-26-2004, 07:07 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Gerick
oh and if you want that freedom of speech as ammo for your arsenal, bush was the first president to make "free speech" zones FAR away from camera view, ever wonder why you didnt see any anti war signs when he landed in is little plane?
Actually that went on before Bush was in office. Get your facts straight before posting.
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Old 04-26-2004, 07:52 AM   #19
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WRONG Horm!!! Again, and as usual.

Sorry this is off thread topic, but Horm wants to pursue this argument.
(The law and the argument is, "Do women have the right to terminate their pregnancy?" The medical term is "abortion". You are either PRO or ANTI that law. If you believe that is correct, then you are either "Pro Abortion" or "Pro Abortion Rights". You believe that it is ethically, morally and legally proper to "pickle", "slice and dice" or otherwise murder the child. Us "anti abortion" folks believe in the sanctity of life, PERIOD. This argument is the ultimate, endless circle, and each person will just hold their belief.)

But to further prove your stupidity, in my post I said this thread is about "Freedom of Speech", and that we should discuss abortion elsewhere, which is why I put my argument in parenthesis.
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Old 04-26-2004, 07:59 AM   #20
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Pro-choice means you support that pregnant women are allowed to choose abortion if they want.

Pro-abortion means you are in favour of the act of abortion itself. If you're pro-abortion...well, it kind of implies that you'd like all pregnant women to be forced into them.

I know this isn't what you mean but the usage of the words are very critical.

Edit : One night a drug addict breaks into a house, and snatches a 12 year old girl. It is his intention to ransom her to the family for drug money but very soon he finds out that the mother of the little girl is on welfare, and is struggling to pay her own bills let alone a ransom. The addict is furious and in a fit of anger and drug induced rage rapes the little girl.

A few months before he raped the little girl he'd shared a needle and contracted aids. He unwittingly passes this on to the little girl.

6 weeks later the little girl finds out she is pregnant with his child.

Her mother comes to you and asks you for permission to abort the life of a child who won't live past the age of 10. Doctors have already told her that due to her fragile frame it is likely that carrying the baby to term will kill them both.

After two months of councilling the little girl decides that she does not want this baby, she want's to be rid of it because it will only serve to remind her of her torture and rape. Do YOU grant her the right to abortion?

Last edited by Kerryn; 04-26-2004 at 08:06 AM.
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Old 04-26-2004, 08:19 AM   #21
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Inmountains, I'm not arguing for or against abortion rights in this instance- that's one of the most futile debates we could have here since we both know it will go nowhere. It was you who called for a change in terminology as if it was somehow a neutral and indisputably correct assessment of the two camps. I rightfully pointed out the bias in your terminology. That you can't see this is a tribute not to my "stupidity" but to your inability to understand basic concepts.

I am not pro-abortion. I do not promote abortion as a preferable alternative to perpetuating the human species. I don't know a single person who does.

I am pro-choice. I believe a woman- or a couple- should have the right to choose what happens to her body. It is never a happy or easy choice when abortion is the decision, but it is one that is the best solution in many cases, in my opinion. You could call me pro-abortion-rights if you want, but there is a massive difference between pro-abortion-rights and pro-abortion from a semantics point of view, and an important one at that.

You are anti-abortion, more commonly called pro-life, though that term is also biased for the specific contrast it tries to imply as if one camp is pro-death. You believe the willful termination of a pregnancy through artificial means is murder, in any instance regardless of circumstances.

If you cannot grasp what I wrote in these past 3 paragraphs, then you need to call your parents up and yell at them for failing to provide a most basic education. Use your brain Inmountains- even you can probably keep up with this logic.
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Old 04-26-2004, 08:21 AM   #22
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I think you could make it even easier then that Ares. The fetus isn't considered a child until the umbilical cord is cut and living on it's own. Until then I consider it part of the mother.
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Old 04-26-2004, 08:48 AM   #23
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The fetus isn't considered a child until the umbilical cord is cut and living on it's own.
So, it isn't a child until it's in its early 20s? Oh, and that should read "The fetus isn't considered a child in my opinion until the umbilical cord is cut and living on it's own. Using that logic, siamese twins aren't two individuals, but one person, since they're attached and all.
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Old 04-26-2004, 09:12 AM   #24
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So, it isn't a child until it's in its early 20s? Oh, and that should read "The fetus isn't considered a child in my opinion until the umbilical cord is cut and living on it's own. Using that logic, siamese twins aren't two individuals, but one person, since they're attached and all.
I thought it was obvious that it was my opinion, I guess not. When I say living on it's own i mean breathing and able to digest foreign substances. You are right I wouldn't consider siamese twin as separate beings, as you said they are still connected. When they are separated then they are separate humans.
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Old 04-26-2004, 09:25 AM   #25
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Ok, well you have a funny way of determining what makes a human being. I think what makes a sentient being goes a little beyond the physicalities. I mean, how do you expect it to breathe in the womb? Or how do you expect to feed it other than how it's set up now? Hell, every time you go scuba diving, you cease to be a person...well, until you surface and start breathing on your own again.

If you can convince me that brain activity doesn't begin until the doctor's slapped its ass, then maybe I would agree with you. Until then, attached or not, it's still a life.

By the way, when I say "individual", I mean that each twin is thinking, acting, feeling, etc. independently. You wouldn't refer to them as "him" or "her" (well, you might, but most wouldn't).
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