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Old 04-21-2004, 08:42 PM   #1
bumbleroot
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Default Bush says we will not negotiate... but...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Apr21.html

Seems to me like Ole Ironsides (Bush) is going to give into the regime that we apparently were liberating Iraq from.
What gives?
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Old 04-21-2004, 08:44 PM   #2
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What the fuck? Post wants us to register?

Cut and paste Bumb.
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Old 04-21-2004, 08:49 PM   #3
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Here you go

U.S. Moves to Rehire Some From Baath Party, Military

By Robin Wright
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, April 22, 2004; Page A01


The United States is moving to rehire former members of Iraq's ruling Baath Party and senior Iraqi military officers fired after the ouster of Saddam Hussein, in an effort to undo the damage of its two most controversial policies in Iraq, according to U.S. officials.



The U.S. administrator of Iraq, L. Paul Bremer, proposed the policy shifts to broaden the strategy to entice the powerful Sunni minority back into the political fold and weaken support for the insurgency in the volatile Sunni Triangle, two of the most persistent challenges for the U.S.-led occupation, the officials say. Both policies are at the heart of national reconciliation, increasingly important as the occupation nears an end.

"Iraq has a highly marginalized Sunni minority, and the more that people of standing can be taken off the pariah list, the more that community will become involved politically," said a senior envoy from a country in the U.S.-led coalition.

The Bush administration is fleshing out details, which it hopes to conclude this week. But the United States, backed by Britain, has decided in principle to "fix" or "soften" the rigid rules that led to the firing of Iraqis in the Baath Party from such jobs as top government positions, teachers and doctors, U.S. officials said.

The U.S.-led coalition is already bringing back senior military officers to provide leadership to the fragile new Iraqi army, with more than half a dozen generals from Hussein's military appointed to top jobs in the past week alone, U.S. officials said. Army Gen. John P. Abizaid, chief of Central Command, is working to identify other commanders to bring back, officials added.

"The decisions made a year ago have bedeviled the situation on the ground ever since. Walking back these policies is a triumph of the view in the field over policies originally crafted in Washington," said a senior U.S. official involved in Iraq policy. Ironically, the two policies were the first actions taken by Bremer, who brought them from Washington, when he arrived in Baghdad to assume leadership of the U.S-led occupation last May.

The administration insists neither move is a policy reversal, but foreign policy experts said it will appear that way in practice to Iraqis. "We are reviewing implementation of policies to look at how to better balance the desire to employ resident expertise with the need for justice," said National Security Council spokesman Sean McCormack.

The first move to revise policy on former Baathists will be to reinstate about 11,000 teachers and hundreds of professors fired after Hussein's demise last year, U.S. officials said. "These are many of the people who were treated unfairly by the system. Their Baathist status did not reflect their role in the party," said a senior official in the Coalition Provisional Authority.

By eventually getting thousands of other well-trained Sunnis back in jobs critical to Iraq's revival, the long-term goal is to incorporate Sunnis in post-Hussein Iraq.

"More broadly, [this strategy] is again reaching out to the Sunnis and making them feel part of the process and investing them in the process while also not alienating the rest of Iraq, particularly the Shiites and the Kurds," said a senior administration official familiar with the discussions.

Baathists in the top four levels of the party were fired and the military was dismantled because they were seen as the primary instruments of Hussein's Sunni-dominated government and their continued presence as a threat to the transition, even though vast numbers of Iraqis joined largely to ensure employment or even survival, U.S. officials now concede. They were allowed to appeal for job reinstatement, a process that has proved slow and unwieldy -- and has alienated vast numbers of Sunnis who are the main targets, U.S. officials say.

The administration is considering a range of options, such as a proactive approach that would identify other groups of Sunni professionals to reinstate, or expediting the current process by creating a new commission to adjudicate the appeals. The committee charged with "de-Baathification" is headed by Ahmed Chalabi, a Shiite Muslim and controversial politician on the Governing Council.

The administration has not decided how far up the four top layers of the Baath Party to go. But the U.S.-led occupation authority wants only Iraqis who have clean records to be reinstated in government jobs or military positions, U.S. and occupation authority officials said.

The two policies have been under fire inside and outside the administration for months.

"Those policies should never have been put in place because there wasn't enough information on the Baath Party from the outset, and the effort to dismantle the party was ill-conceived and based on ignorance, even though it was clear something had to be done. The CPA went about it willy-nilly," said Timothy Carney, a former U.S. ambassador who served in Iraq in the first months after the occupation. "Dismantling the military was done in haste as well."

The escalating confrontation between U.S. troops and Sunni insurgents around Fallujah over the past month has accelerated the debate within the administration, a senior State Department official said. The administration wants to balance military pressure with political and economic incentives to ensure alienation among Sunnis does not deepen, he said.

The biggest concern and unknown is how Iraq's Shiite majority, historically repressed by the Sunni minority, will react to the two moves, U.S. officials said. As the United States brings back military officers, it is paying special attention to the balance among ethnic and religious factions. The first three former generals reinstated this week included a Sunni Muslim, a Shiite and a Kurd.
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Old 04-21-2004, 09:26 PM   #4
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Iraq's ruling Baath Party and senior Iraqi military officers fired after the ouster of Saddam Hussein

Fired huh? Thats a laugh. Does anybody have common sense anymore?
Tell us who fired them. /Taps foot (See above about common sense)

Another great post Bumbleroot. I didn't read past that line, and I know your
going to bash me for being truthfull.



God Bless America
God Bless President Bush for his Leadership
Zolmaz.
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Old 04-22-2004, 12:18 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Zolmaz Zo'Boto
Fired huh? Thats a laugh. Does anybody have common sense anymore?
Tell us who fired them. /Taps foot (See above about common sense)
Jesus, you know fuck all. At least google it before asking dumb questions.

Bremer ordered the Iraqi army to disband, against the advice of the British and other coalition partners, and without even consulting the joint chiefs of staff.

That was a huge mistake. Instead of using the (approx) 400,000 troops to work for the coalition (most had little loyalty to Saddam), arrogant Bremer put 400,000 armed, unemployed and bored men on the streets.

Last edited by Sakkath; 04-22-2004 at 12:25 AM.
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Old 04-22-2004, 04:46 AM   #6
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Now Z, if we are giving in to the Baathists and as you and other cons say, they were terrorists, how are we winning the war on terror by giving in to the terrorists?
Fortunately for us libs, we tend to believe the Baathists were not terrorists, but just people on the take.

So what is it going to be? Either we give in to terrorists or the Conservative argument that Hussein was a terrorist is wrong.
Tapping foot....waiting for an answer.
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Old 04-22-2004, 05:25 AM   #7
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The Baathist and Sunni's are not all terrorist. There are actually many from these parties that want peace and freedom. What they do want is for their people and parties to be represented.

No different than our government being made up of republicans, democrats, libratarians and tree huggers. There are some of all parties that make up our senate, congress etc that represent and vote for their followers.

It's not a bad move IMHO to include them.
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Old 04-22-2004, 05:54 AM   #8
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The Baathist and Sunni's are not all terrorist.
You need to separate Sunni and Baathist. Baathists are a political party. They either had an ideology of terrorism or they didn't. You are trying to change what you and other cons have said in the past and it just isn't holding any water. Sunni's on the other hand are a religious sect. The Baathists were secular. That is who we are proposing to hire back.
Here is something on the Baathists.
http://reference.allrefer.com/countr...aq/iraq73.html
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Old 04-22-2004, 06:07 AM   #9
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I swear today's GOP backpedals faster than an all-pro cornerback.

I hear they're hiring Osama Bin Laden on in a consulting capacity to examine how best to win over Islamic extremists
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Old 04-22-2004, 06:42 AM   #10
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Horm,

You certainly ride the short bus to school dont you?

I mean what kind of unintelligent fucktard are you?

Here is my interpretation of your words

Hi my name is Horm, I am a fudgepacking liberal assmonkey that can form no opinion for myself and anything the media tells me is right I will state that in public forum and now that we are on this subject VOTE LIBERAL i dont care if its the fucking grand dragon of the KKK as long as its not bush I will vote for him, give me David duke over bush, give me farakahn over bush, give me HITLER over bush, I am just another sheep to be led to the slaughter.

The whole democratik, agenda is that no matter what the issue if bush votes or says one thing the demokrats go another. And who the fuck do the demokrauts think they are telling nader not to run. That right there shows their own disdain for the american citizens they dont care about any citizen only on how to expand their Reich. You know hitler said that the 3rd reich will last 3000 years and the demokratic party is hell bent on keeping to that statement.
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Old 04-22-2004, 06:54 AM   #11
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Is that true Nuzum? Did the Dem's tell Nadar not to run? LOL to funny if they did.
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Old 04-22-2004, 07:05 AM   #12
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Nuzum- the right wing cabal of this board already has one rimlicking retard mascot and his name is Zolmaz. If you two want to fight it out for rights to be the apple of the eye of my derision that's all well and good, but there can be only one.

The difference is, at least Zolmaz's palpable ignorance is good for a laugh once in a while. You're just an also-ran wannabe message board toughguy.

Let me paint your portrait: 29 years old, five foot five inches tall, 215 pounds or so. Not hopelessly obese, but your stomach has a tendency to peak out from under your sweat-stained t-shirts, especially when your long-untreated hyperactivity disorder flares up. You wear a retainer still, not because your teeth aren't straight but because you developed a nearly religious oral fixation during your childhood. You've never quite recovered from the scarring of teenage acne and your low-grade alcoholism has left a subtle, but permanent boil on the tip of your nose. You've taken to drinking sparkling wine coolers out of the same sippy-cup your parents gave you as a toddler. You like to wear drawstring pants because they make masturbating easier. And zippers are hard work. You had a job doing contract janitorial work around the fast food restaurants of your hometown but you were fired when your supervisor caught you trying to deep fry your Fruit of the Looms after hours. You're currently running an envelope stuffing business out of your parents' basement. You run such a constant thirst from all the envelope and stamp licking that you go through 3 cases of Mountain Dew a day- however, that has played hell with your urinary control and you've taken to wearing Depends, just in case. You just got out of a 6 year cyber-sex relationship because when you finally worked up the courage to ask HawtLadii035 to meet in real life you found out it was the 73 year old oxygen sucking invalid who lives next door in that house that smells funny. You now spend your evenings doing old Jane Fonda workout tapes in hopes that you'll eventually flatten your stomach enough to fulfill your dreams of autofellatio.

Dare to dream Nuzum. You're gonna be somebody- I can feel it
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Old 04-22-2004, 07:20 AM   #13
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Any of you cons want to explain why you have and are now supporting the backpedaling of our position. Do you want to explain why you are now hiring back the people that were deemed unfit in the first place?
Can I hear the word Waffle?
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Old 04-22-2004, 07:25 AM   #14
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I explained Bumbleroot. It's not backpeddeling. It's called moving forward. It's called seperating the bad guys from the good guys. They are finding out that not all Sunni's and Baath's are terrorist, nor do they all support terrorism. FYI negotiating with the terrorist would be pulling out of Iraq.
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Old 04-22-2004, 07:33 AM   #15
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It's the newest tactic by the GOP. Every time they get called on their shit for breaking the rules, they turn around and say "No- we changed the rules!....er, I mean the rules changed....er, I mean, you're un-American! Kerry looks like a fish!!"

If only it weren't so laughably transparent it might be a good political tactic. It's like playing hide and go seek with retards here lately- there's very little satisfaction for us on the left when we say, yet again, "I found you!"
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Old 04-22-2004, 07:38 AM   #16
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In breaking news,

The demokratic agenda is this:









Yeah thats what i thought too, and it is true the demokrast didnt ask nader they TOLD nader not to run because it would ruin their chances of winning.
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Old 04-22-2004, 07:41 AM   #17
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And what will you do Caelie whne you get your way, and you set up some
Gov in Iraq, and the US pulls out, and the Gov in Iraq collapses in three weeks? Will you admit then that it was an impossible mission?
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Old 04-22-2004, 07:46 AM   #18
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Ah, Pukagok- another irrelevant n3oc0n troll. Did he come in the mail today or something? Small packages often don't catch my eye.

As to Nader, he sure was encouraged by Democratic leaders not to run because he clearly does affect their chances to win. I don't see where the scandal is. "Told" though? Ralph Nader has never been one to let anyone tell him what to do. Hell, he might have entered the race purely to spite the Democrats who asked him not to enter.
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Old 04-22-2004, 07:59 AM   #19
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They are finding out that not all Sunni's and Baath's are terrorist, nor do they all support terrorism. FYI negotiating with the terrorist would be pulling out of Iraq.
Care to explain to me how we know that any of them are terrorists then? Because you apparently have some magic formula for determining who a terrorist isn't. So you must have a formula for determining who the terrorists are as well. And if in fact you do, that formula doesn't seem to be working too well as you seem to admit that we are finding out now that we were WRONG.
(Just another con and another wrong)
Seems to me like you are saying that we are just now finding out that what we called terrorists are in fact, not terrorists. I have news for you Caelie, we never called Sunnis terrorists. Somewhere along the line you know that terrorists are your enemy. Hence any enemy is a terrorist. That isn't true. The USSR was our enemy for years but they were not terrorists. In fact they fight a terrorist organization even to this day.

And pulling out of Iraq is not negotiating with the terrorists. We need to do what is best for our country, not anything that pleases the terrorists. If a terrorist tells you to brush your teeth are you not going to do it because they said it? No, you are going to take care of yourself first. If at some point it is in our interest to pull out, then we do it. We don't operate on reverse psychology in this country and your insistence that we do is ridiculous.
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Old 04-22-2004, 08:02 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Bumbleroot
And pulling out of Iraq is not negotiating with the terrorists. We need to do what is best for our country, not anything that pleases the terrorists. If a terrorist tells you to brush your teeth are you not going to do it because they said it? No, you are going to take care of yourself first. If at some point it is in our interest to pull out, then we do it. We don't operate on reverse psychology in this country and your insistence that we do is ridiculous.
Excellent point.
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Old 04-22-2004, 08:15 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Bumbleroot
And pulling out of Iraq is not negotiating with the terrorists. We need to do what is best for our country, not anything that pleases the terrorists.
Hillarious! God please don't let Kerry win! Bumbleroot, you're a liberal you fool...You have no idea what's best for our country!
Originally Posted by Chiteng
And what will you do Caelie whne you get your way, and you set up some
Gov in Iraq, and the US pulls out, and the Gov in Iraq collapses in three weeks? Will you admit then that it was an impossible mission?
I may have missed something Chiteng, but I understood Bush to say we wouldn't be pulling out of Iraq until the Iraqi's had a stable government. That's not to say we'll keep 150,000 soldiers there, but I see the US military being in Iraq for a long time.
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Old 04-22-2004, 08:17 AM   #22
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Ahh so the USA becomes hostages just like in Korea and Germany.
What a great plan =P
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Old 04-22-2004, 08:25 AM   #23
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Hey we gotta station our troops somewhere. Iraq, Hawaii, Germany, Japan or Korea. What difference does it make as long as it's not a hostile environment. I seriously don't think Bush is going to cut and run our troops out on July 1st if the takeover happens on June 30th. Is this what you guys on the left were thinking?
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Old 04-22-2004, 08:40 AM   #24
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Let's not forget that the Administration is in fact negotiating with the so called terrorists in Fallujah. This whole give us your weapons or we'll shoot business is laughable at best. What is the point? They are not going to give up their armaments or go down without a big fight. Chiteng has been right all along. The US doesn't have the guts to go in and do what really needs to be done. The US is going to continue to be perceived as soft and it is going to haunt this occupation for a very long time.
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Old 04-22-2004, 08:49 AM   #25
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I keep telling you Caelie I am not on the left. You simply ignore it.
Not my problem then =)
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