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Old 04-21-2004, 08:14 PM   #26
bumbleroot
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Haven't you been reading these boards? There are NO terrorists in Iraq. Just ask Bumble, Ares and Horma!!!
IM, you obviously don't seem to comprehend many things too well. Every one of us libs have conceded that terrorists have come into Iraq after the war. We also concede that there are new terrorists created from going to this war. Hence, the dead kids in Iraq today.
That is not what you say here. We never even said there were no terrorists in Iraq before the war. There are terrorists in the US right now, that doesn't mean that we support terrorism, or does it? What we said....and listen real closely since you seem kind of hard of understanding.... is that Saddam Hussein did not have a terrorist state and that he was not linked to Al Qaeda. That is hardly anything like what you say. We also said he is, nor was not a threat to the US. So, stop putting words into our mouth to fit your agenda. Speak the truth and stop making shit up.
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Old 04-21-2004, 08:36 PM   #27
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Sakkath, you make me laugh!!! I wasn't bringing up a "flat tax amount", if anything, I would rather see tax on what is spent, not on what is earned. This encourages more investment!!!
Are you serious?

Investment would have to be taxed in order to prevent people from pooling their entire salary into a stable fund and spending it indirectly. Loopholes abound.

Then, with spending taxed (including investments, necessarily) people would just sit on their money and do nothing with it. Eventually the government would have to switch back and they'd have gobs of untaxed income leftover from the income tax-free years.

If you have the slightest clue about what "investment" really is, you realize it's just spending money on something that will increase in value, then selling it.
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Old 04-22-2004, 10:41 AM   #28
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Bumble, it was a joke, OK??

Ares, obviously you are a "money wizard" and understand all things financial. So no use in even arguing, we should just all bow down to your financial astuteness!!!! (I had to stop laughing at your post before I could type this)
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Old 04-22-2004, 01:01 PM   #29
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Back to the original topic. Jon Stewart nailed it when he said that these countries were suffering from "Premature Evacuation"
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Old 04-22-2004, 07:26 PM   #30
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Alright then, oh wise and all-knowing Inmountains.

Explain to me what investment is, if it's not purchasing something, waiting for the value to increase, and selling it?
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Old 04-22-2004, 11:06 PM   #31
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Well, for example, an investment can provide income as opposed to capital growth. The saleable value of the asset does not increase over time, ie: a cash deposit account or a debt instrument that is not saleable in a secondary market.
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Old 04-23-2004, 12:14 AM   #32
AresProphet
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I don't know a whole lot about the specifics of investment, and I never have claimed to.

However, there is a business major I know who I asked about it this evening; he agreed that if income tax were abolished in favor of a sales tax, you would have to tax investments of any kind. He seemed to know his shit pretty well, and I'm going to trust him over some batshit-insane anonymous messageboard psycho who names himself after a geographic feature of the area he lives in.
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Old 04-23-2004, 01:19 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Zaniel
Well, for example, an investment can provide income as opposed to capital growth. The saleable value of the asset does not increase over time, ie: a cash deposit account or a debt instrument that is not saleable in a secondary market.
The FV ('saleable value') of cash in a deposit account does change. Perhaps you can name a debt instrument that you can invest in that has no secondary market, I can't think of any off the top of my head where a position can't be unwound.

Certainly there are hundreds if not thousands of investment vehicles, and some of them are very exotic, looking nothing like what people outside the industry would expect. But at the end of the day, it almost always comes back to Future Value/Present Value (ie appreciation).
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Old 04-23-2004, 01:20 AM   #34
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sovereign countries may do as they want. just like we choose to go to war without UN support.
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Old 04-23-2004, 01:23 AM   #35
Sakkath
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Originally Posted by Ramesses Elliscer
sovereign countries may do as they want. just like we choose to go to war without UN support.
So you were quite happy to watch Iraq invade Kuwait?
You would have no problem if Iraq had been amassing WMD?
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Old 04-23-2004, 01:37 AM   #36
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I think his basic premise is correct though Zaniel. The idea of investment is to get a return on your money in excess of inflation, whether paid as capital distribution, income, or as an offset against taxes payable.
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Old 04-23-2004, 02:36 AM   #37
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no sakkat i was not, amassing WMD and invading another country are crimes wich have to paid for. As far as I know leaving from Iraq is not or will never be a crime. You trying to compare apples to oranges here friend.
catch my meaning or you rather twist the words around some more?

A sovereign country choose to do what the hell ever they want, if they break international laws in the process they most pay. If not, who cares?
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Old 04-23-2004, 07:16 AM   #38
Zaniel
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Originally Posted by Sakkath
The FV ('saleable value') of cash in a deposit account does change. Perhaps you can name a debt instrument that you can invest in that has no secondary market, I can't think of any off the top of my head where a position can't be unwound.
If you are talking about the NPV of a cash account yes that changes, anything does in that case. The overall "capital value" of a cash account only changes in raw dollar terms if you are reinvesting the funds. I am unsure how you are implying that you can sell $1 in a bank account for $1.20 though, if you can then you are a very rich man.

Certainly there are hundreds if not thousands of investment vehicles, and some of them are very exotic, looking nothing like what people outside the industry would expect. But at the end of the day, it almost always comes back to Future Value/Present Value (ie appreciation).
Some specific instruments such as special classes of shares are unsaleable by the terms of issue or whatever trusteeship type arrangement they are issued under. They simply provide income for a set period of time. Yes its obscure, I was just trying to think of an example to illustrate how buying an investment for capital growth was not the only reason for an "investment"

For example, one of the investments I hold is a private equity venture fund. Under the terms of the trust deed under which I invested my holdings in the fund cannot be sold until the 10 year mark. Until that date all I will receive is income. There is no secondary market for my holding.
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