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Old 04-24-2004, 08:11 AM   #126
hymdall
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LOL, I have been busy this week, and haven't gotte nachance to see the responses to my post. I think that perhaps it was misunderstood. I never said I was better than anyone... I didn't even try to imply that.
I figured as much, not everyone gets a chance to read the boards daily but to the point, your post was so full of elitism, how can you even try to say you weren't impying it with comments like...

Sorry folks, that's how it is, humans are an asset, and you don't send your most valuable capital assets out to die. Sorry if it's crude, but that's business.
That comment right there says "I shouldn't have to go fight if called, Im better than you"

Great, you work with children, you work with the elderly, you do taxes for free and you will offer free legal work. These are great things to do and very admirable, but still in the scheme of things, they really aren't a contribution to society that would exclude you from fighting if you were drafted (though your being a woman definitely would exclude you from the draft, at least for now...go ERA )

It's better for me and for society if I stay here and remain productive. Otherwise, I would simply go to another country and enrich that society.
So you spent all this money and time learning about the American way of life and yet, if you were to be drafted you would go enrich some other country's community first? Obviously all those classes about the American way of life you took missed the part that explained that if you are drafted, it is your American duty to go. Again, I disagree with the draft, I think in today's society it has no place, but if it is re-instated it's a simple understanding that if drafted you go. All are asked to take the same risk and all are expected to follow through with the commitment.

What I am saying is that I have spent my life learning about the American system to help people emjoy its benefits, to send me or even others like me to combat (where we have little to no training, and could not really contribute to anything other than friendly fire from not knowing how to use guns), is absurdity.
So you're not trained for Combat, no one is until you step off the bus at a Recruit Training Depot. You don't sign up, get handed a rifle and jump into combat. Basic training is 9 to 13 weeks (depending on branch) followed by 4 to 6 weeks of AIT and then a various (depending on MOS) amount of time for your job. By the time you would actually have to fight, you would have a bare minimum 13 weeks of training. If you can not grasp an understanding of something as basic as combat in 13 weeks, how are you seriously going to fare in law school?

Your father fought in Vietnam, your grandfather in WW2. Welcome to the club. My father was a tunnel-rat for the Army in 1969, my Grandfather an MP in 45.

P.S. Being a 10 year old girl and seeing your father crying uncontrollably = not cool.
I will not get into the pains I saw my father go through, or the screaming at midnight or the flashbacks, not that anyone wants to know, but you can ask my wife about the 2 am wake ups, I know first hand what you went through as a child and unfortunately I know first hand what your father went through, I'm sorry, but you are in no way special in that regard.

Daf
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Old 04-24-2004, 11:24 AM   #127
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Default Refresher English Lesson

This thread is in danger of being un-derailed. I am taking swift action to prevent that tragedy.

I call today's lesson form agreement.

The subject of a sentence or clause generally sets the forms for all verbs and object nouns.

The human is an asset. singular subject + linking verb = singular object, singular verb.
Humans are assets. plural subject + linking verb = plural object, plural verb.
The human runs fast. singular subject + action verb = singular verb, formless adverb.
Humans run fast. plural subject + action verb = plural verb, formless adverb.
The human will be an asset. singular subject + linking verb = singular object, singular verb.
The humans will be assets. plural subject + linking verb = plural object, plural verb.
The humans will be an asset. Be careful! This subject is actually singular. This is a collective form. The subject can be considered as "all of the humans together" in contrast to the "each human by itself" from before.
Humans are an asset. This might work if you were an alien who had enslaved the entire species. Otherwise, you need to use a plural object, or denote the specific humans you mean (those humans, some humans, the humans, etc)

The collective forms can cause confusion. If in doubt, ask yourself if you mean all, or if you mean each.

Some nouns have neither singular nor plural forms. Those nouns generally take singular verb forms (Filth grows) and singular objects (Filth is an asset), and can generally be used as an object (The human is filth. The humans are filth.).

Yes, I am at work and just killing time, and yes, this post was completely uncalled for.
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Old 04-24-2004, 11:35 AM   #128
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Wow monk... just.... wow....
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Old 04-24-2004, 11:51 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Maximus Faticus
Sorry but we failed that one right there. There are 2 other branches that have just as much power as the executive branch. They can even kick him out.

heh, have you seen the new bills coming up to remove the checks and balances? obviously you dont keep your fingers on the slowly fading pusle of our once great nation
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Old 04-24-2004, 04:04 PM   #130
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As far as feeling a like a "big man"...these tend to get weeded out real quick, Everclear. Not sure where you were going with this, but, it is plain you dont know what the fuck youre talking about. Life is a dirty business. Try not to belittle those who give you the ability to be snide and help the elderly.

I have no idea where you got your ideas of grandiosity, but they are sickening. Im afraid I, also, have experienced your father's trials...it isnt pretty. You dishonor him with the shit your spouting.
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Old 04-24-2004, 05:01 PM   #131
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Those bill would never pass, and if they somehow did they wouldn't last long. I couldn't see Congress, or the Supreme Court willinglly give up their power like that.

Care to link some of those bills your talking about?
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Old 04-24-2004, 06:26 PM   #132
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Those bill would never pass, and if they somehow did they wouldn't last long. I couldn't see Congress, or the Supreme Court willinglly give up their power like that.
I too have a hard time seeing Congress or the Supreme Court willingly decrease the checks and balancing system. Well, maybe Congress. We have some real "winners" in there right now, but not the Court. This group has been real strong minded when it comes to judicial review.

A thought just occured to me...Everclear's big contribution to society is that she is going to be a lawyer. I heard once that the USA has more lawyers than any other country, is it really a needed service for us to add one more?

I don't think EC can convince me of her superiority. All I've seen from you is elitism and cowardice hidden in justification. I don't mean to be insulting, just calling a spade a spade.

Closing this with simply saying Semper Fi to my brothers, keep your aim straight, your head down and come home safe and sound. That goes to you army navy and air force punks too.

Daf
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Old 04-24-2004, 06:40 PM   #133
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A thought just occured to me...Everclear's big contribution to society is that she is going to be a lawyer. I heard once that the USA has more lawyers than any other country, is it really a needed service for us to add one more?
There are too many lawyers, they spent large sums of money on their education and its hard for them to find work becuase there are too many already. What ends up happening is lawyers start doing whatever they can to earn money. They become ambulance chasers or work for tort firms. Its the damn lawyers who put so many wrinkles in the godamn law and why your favorite medicine was taken off the market.
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Old 04-24-2004, 06:51 PM   #134
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I understand also Hymdall. My father was in the navy. Not sure if it was WWII or Korean war, but he was on a ship that zig zagged across the ocean to New Caladonia (sp).

I can't tell you how many time's my mom and brother would have to take him to the VA. Nothing like visiting you're father when you're 10 years old on the 4th floor mental area. Hard to grasp why elevators and walls are padded. He would be fine and normal then every so many years he would just nut up.

I remember once when I was 16, I was taking him some where and I pulled in a Shell gas station. He went balistic because the colors were red and gold. He kept saying they were the communist and he had information they were trying to get from him. I said "ok ok, chilll", pulled in a Chevron that was red, white and blue and he was fine.
Needless to say when I got back home I told my mom and not long afterwards he was back in the VA again.

It is tough and hard to explain, but many of us have gone thru it. Seeing your dad fine, well and normal then all of a sudden wondering what in the hell is wrong with him. Now that I'm older and with the help of the internet, I understand what he was going thru. This didn't happen alot. Maybe once in 5 years, then he would be fine for 10 years and it would happen again.
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Old 04-24-2004, 08:17 PM   #135
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congress thinks the SC is overstepping its bounds latly(equvilent to saying they are to frisky) like allowing that house search without a warrent because the man wasnt home, and allowing their lower circuit courts to do gay marrage(not that i am for or agenst)

basically the bill says congress can reverse or change any ruling they want as long as they get 2/3 majority.

that isnt checked or balanced
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Old 04-24-2004, 10:33 PM   #136
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Well, I wanted to scream bullshit on Gerick's post but after some digging, I guess I cant.

H.R.3920 is proposed and in commitee as of March 9th. This amendment will allow congress to overturn a decision of the SCOTUS witha 2/3rd vote from both houses, much like the over turning of the presidential veto.

http://www.theorator.com/bills108/hr3920.html

Little late for me to put alot of thought into it...I ran out of caffene bout an hour ago. Links there if anyone wants to read it. Currently I have a hard time seeing this become law or amendment. They don't have the authority to over rule the SCOTUS yet, and like I said before, this bench is pretty protective of Judicial Review. This bill seems to be more of a "we tried to get it fixxed" move by 20 some odd representatives as a reaction to the 9th circuits decisions as of late. An appeasement to constituants with very little hope of ever getting out of commitee.

I had no idea of the number of bills presented to each Congress. Thousands are currently in commitee to the current legislature and so damn boring to read , couple interesting highlights...1 amendment to deny citizenship to people born in the United States to non-citizen parents another to allow foreign born citizens (who have lived in the US for 20 and 35 years (there are 2 seperate bills)) to hold the office of President and Vice-President.

Daf

edit - so damn late I mispelt March nite all
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Old 04-24-2004, 11:21 PM   #137
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I have no idea where you got your ideas of grandiosity, but they are sickening. Im afraid I, also, have experienced your father's trials...it isnt pretty. You dishonor him with the shit your spouting


Ok, enough trying to get my point across. I don't have ideas of grandiosity. You haven't experienced my father's anything, because I am willing to bet you don't know my father. Additionally, I don't know a rat's ass from you, so who gives a flying fuck what your opinion of my honor is?

Secondly, for you people thinking my opinion is "elit", it's the product of being raised by a man who is proud of his daughter, and years of being told "You are better than that" by a parent who never wants to see his child placed in a death squad that is governed by "elitist".

I'm sorry if your parents never told you that you were better than something, or if they trained you like a monkey to "Do what you are told because it's your duty" To hell with that. My family has fought because they believed in rights, not compulsory bullshit. It's my DUTY to fight or do what I believe in, and if it's NOT going to die that's MY CHOICE. My choice is wanting to get involved with a system, so one day, maybe I will be able to help prevent sending troops to needless wars.

I'm not better than anyone else, but they sure as hell aren't better than me. One politician's opinion that I should do something is in no way better than my opinion that I don't. Clearly I don't have the same attitudes that many reading my posts have, I concede that. I am not the kind of person who allows my future to be dictated for me, believing that others are smarter or more "qualified" to decide the direction of my life. I don't allow myself to be confused and victimized by laws, I find a way around them or try my hardest to participate in changing them. For all the posts of rudeness about my opinions, I find it extremely typical. I find it typical that I can respect your opinions, even if I disagree, yet you "patriots" resort to namecalling and malicious slanders. Well, I am sure your rightousness is great, and I am sure you will go to a red white and blue heaven, and I salute you for that. I honor the sacrifice you make. Unfortunatley, if you are bitter with everyone who decides not to make the same choice (Such as ex-president Clinton for reasons VERY SIMILIAR TO MINE), then just hang out with other chimpanzees that were all trained to think like you.
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Old 04-25-2004, 04:37 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by Everclear
Quote :

I have no idea where you got your ideas of grandiosity, but they are sickening. Im afraid I, also, have experienced your father's trials...it isnt pretty. You dishonor him with the shit your spouting


Ok, enough trying to get my point across. I don't have ideas of grandiosity. You haven't experienced my father's anything, because I am willing to bet you don't know my father. Additionally, I don't know a rat's ass from you, so who gives a flying fuck what your opinion of my honor is?

Secondly, for you people thinking my opinion is "elit", it's the product of being raised by a man who is proud of his daughter, and years of being told "You are better than that" by a parent who never wants to see his child placed in a death squad that is governed by "elitist".

I'm sorry if your parents never told you that you were better than something, or if they trained you like a monkey to "Do what you are told because it's your duty" To hell with that. My family has fought because they believed in rights, not compulsory bullshit. It's my DUTY to fight or do what I believe in, and if it's NOT going to die that's MY CHOICE. My choice is wanting to get involved with a system, so one day, maybe I will be able to help prevent sending troops to needless wars.

I'm not better than anyone else, but they sure as hell aren't better than me. One politician's opinion that I should do something is in no way better than my opinion that I don't. Clearly I don't have the same attitudes that many reading my posts have, I concede that. I am not the kind of person who allows my future to be dictated for me, believing that others are smarter or more "qualified" to decide the direction of my life. I don't allow myself to be confused and victimized by laws, I find a way around them or try my hardest to participate in changing them. For all the posts of rudeness about my opinions, I find it extremely typical. I find it typical that I can respect your opinions, even if I disagree, yet you "patriots" resort to namecalling and malicious slanders. Well, I am sure your rightousness is great, and I am sure you will go to a red white and blue heaven, and I salute you for that. I honor the sacrifice you make. Unfortunatley, if you are bitter with everyone who decides not to make the same choice (Such as ex-president Clinton for reasons VERY SIMILIAR TO MINE), then just hang out with other chimpanzees that were all trained to think like you.
More diarrhea of the "mouth"...

Once again you make my point for me. You come off as a worthless, self-centered, elitist sack of shit...btw, this is my first attempt at "name-calling", as you call it.

No one here has said they are better than anyone else...you say you think you are not? Your words/attitude say otherwise.

No my parents did not raise me telling me i was better than everyone else. I was raised to work hard and to respect others. Not to be a bully, but never walk away. To never "hit a girl"(though I wanted to as a child, many times hehee)I know its old fashioned, but so were my parents. To strive to be the best at everything I did. To go to church and to love/fear god...this one backfired. And finally that there were repercussions/consequences for my actions...boy I hated those "talks". I still vivdly remember the beatings, hehe. But, they did it because they loved me. I do not fault them.

At no time did my parents try and fill my head with rubbish. They taught me to be an honest, hard working, caring man....and I love them for it. You obviously love your father. This is a wonderful thing. Just dont expect us to agree with your self appointed snobbery.

You reek of mediocrity...get over yourself.
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Old 04-25-2004, 07:36 AM   #139
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You haven't experienced my father's anything, because I am willing to bet you don't know my father.
Oh I get it, those of us who actually fought for our lives, have had friends die next to us or as we carried them to the evac, those of us who watched our father sweat uncontrollably as he had yet another fucking flashback, we have no idea what you or your father went through, because we don't know him or you...

Damn Fel, I feel so bad now. All that crap we saw, did, and put our families through, it couldn't be nearly as bad as what poor Everclear's father did. Who are we to state we understand and know what's going on with that?

Unfortunatley, if you are bitter with everyone who decides not to make the same choice (Such as ex-president Clinton for reasons VERY SIMILIAR TO MINE), then just hang out with other chimpanzees that were all trained to think like you.
Here's the major diff between you and Clinton. Clinton was never actually drafted, he avoided the draft through educational means, this was actually an accepted means back then and if the mudslinging campaign hadn't of been as bad as it was in '88, I doubt we would of cared less. My only real problem with Clinton was that he thought he needed to cover up everything. He should of come out and said, "Yes Senator, she got on her knees in the oval, but you know she wasn't all that good, couldn't handle the presidential wood..."

You have actually stated that you would leave the country upon receiving a draft notice and "enrich some other country first" before doing your service. You have actually stated it's far better to send some blue collar worker to take your place because you're too valuable. So I find the comparison between you and Clinton lacking.

You have failed to make your point on why someone should take your place in a warzone or a draft line. I truly hope you improve at making points counselor, or your legal career will be questionable, now pucker up, go for a jog...work them wind sprints, those ambulances can get pretty fast.

Daf

edit...sorry quick note to Caelie. 4th floor Bethesda is a creepy place, I had a buddy of mine that worked there as a corpman in the navy. First time I went up there, I saw an old Gunny lose control. If you were wearing a lab coat you were VC...no one told that floor's staff the Gunny was a champion boxer while he was in the service. Thank God I was in my uniform. I can't imagine the strength it took for you to visit your father there and can only count the blessings that I was not ever in that situation. The padded elevators were very unreal to me.
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Old 04-25-2004, 07:52 AM   #140
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Fel said:

You have failed to make your point on why someone should take your place in a warzone or a draft line. I truly hope you improve at making points counselor, or your legal career will be questionable, now pucker up, go for a jog...work them wind sprints, those ambulances can get pretty fast.



No Fel, you just can't read, apprently. I specifically stated that I thought the draft was wrong. I specifically said that I was NOT saying that it was OK to send bluecollar Americans or anyone into compulsory service. What I DID say was that I was trying to explain why I, personally would not go, and why I personally believe it would be ridiculous to want me to go.

What's with this ambulance chasing pathetic attempt at insult? I am not even going into personal injury law. I realize that many find that kind of practice immoral, and I am inclined to agree with you. I just don't know if the problem is the ethics in this situation, or the fact that they still make more money than most jobs.

It's not a surprise that you would resort to namecalling, but being a lawyer is my dream. Maybe your dream had something to do with the military? Mine doesn't. I only have one life to live, and there are things that I want to accomplish, and I don't plan to let anything get in the way of them.

The point is, that I won't join the military today, I won't kill someone I don't know because some senator I don't know told me to. If it was a war I truly believed in, then maybe things would be different, maybe I could get a job at the US embassy (those get bombed, too unfortunately). But it's my choice how and when to risk my life, and I won't have someone else take that right, and I am not saying it's ok for them to draft anyone else. I hate the idea that 18 year old boys from all over the country could get drafted, just out of highschool, with no idea what to expect. I know not everyone could afford getting out of it, and I know many young boys would lie to themselves and tell themselves it's their duty, or buy into military propoganda. Well the pamphlets don't help when they are miles away from home, scared.

That's why I support our troops and think they really are heros. They are heros because they chose to make that sacrifice. Drafting people is just wrong, IMO. The bottom line, for whatever reason I don't want to go into the military, my post is about how it is now, and will continue to be my choice. I don't care if people are comfortable with a government that takes away rights, I'm not. I won't give up the right to live my life as I choose.
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Old 04-25-2004, 07:58 AM   #141
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Quote:

Here's the major diff between you and Clinton. Clinton was never actually drafted, he avoided the draft through educational means..


No, that's how we are similiar. I am basically saying that I should qualify as exempt, based on educational grounds.... and wasn't Educational Exemption basically the government saying EXACTLY what my post was about? That these people are better just kept finishing thier educations so they can do the jobs they were trained for?

P.S. Once again this does NOT imply it's OK to draft anyone else. h8 the draft!
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Old 04-25-2004, 08:00 AM   #142
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Fel said:
Actually I said that, Fel's reading skills seem to be fine.

What's with this ambulance chasing pathetic attempt at insult?
Actually, if you'll read my previous posts (not Fels) I don't insult, or try not too at least. that was actually a pathetic attempt at a humerous jibe or tease, nothing more than that.

Drafting people is just wrong, IMO.
On that we agree, as I stated earlier, in today's society, there is no place for the draft.
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Old 04-25-2004, 08:31 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Everclear
Fel said:

You have failed to make your point on why someone should take your place in a warzone or a draft line. I truly hope you improve at making points counselor, or your legal career will be questionable, now pucker up, go for a jog...work them wind sprints, those ambulances can get pretty fast.



No Fel, you just can't read, apprently.
LMAO, Hymdall you beat me to it! Everclear...for all your vaunted, elite, brain skills your reading comprehension is down-right laughable. I said none of this. My reading skills are quite adequate for critiquing you.

As far as you believing so much in a campaign you would volunteer your time at a US Embassy...make sure you let the Marines, protecting your spoiled ass, know how you feel. Way to show your support for the War Machine.

And...to once again set you straight on something...

I never once fired my weapon because some sorry ass Senator said so. My Chain of Command pointed me in the right direction and said "Go". Get your facts straight...Senators dont send men into combat, the POTUS does...for better or worse, he is the CINC.
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Old 04-25-2004, 09:28 AM   #144
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everclear has a good point, but s/he really over does it on her/his self worth, NO one should be ripped away from those they love so violently, and then abused by the fast "get em in the bodybags already" training they do in the army, its no wonder so many people have mental problems related to combat, its brutal.
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Old 04-25-2004, 09:46 AM   #145
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<3 Everclear
/hug


/flee!
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Old 04-25-2004, 04:05 PM   #146
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LMAO, Hymdall you beat me to it! Everclear...for all your vaunted, elite, brain skills your reading comprehension is down-right laughable. I said none of this. My reading skills are quite adequate for critiquing you.


Then critique, but the point is you aren't responding to what I said. I said I thought the draft was wrong, and why I think it would be ridiculous to send me. That what I said had nothing to do with personal value. So critique away, but if you are going to critique at least respond.

Oh, and yeah I might have tagged it wrong, Fel I apologize, I am having problems with cut and paste on my computer =/
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Old 04-25-2004, 07:24 PM   #147
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Im not critiquing your opinion on the draft, Everclear. It is your opinion. Ours differ here as in other places.

Just about my entire submission to this thread, has been about criticizing your quasi-elite snobbery. Thankfully you have toned it down a bit.

In the end, it is only opinion.
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Old 04-25-2004, 08:43 PM   #148
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Oh, well that's totally cool. I mean, the thread was about the draft, so agreeing on that is what really matters.. It's okay if you think I am an arrogant jerk. I know that sometimes I sound rude, but it can be hard to keep momentum, and that's how I keep chugging forward. It's hard to watch friends get married and have babies, while trying to single mindedly pursue my career. It takes a lot of self reinforcement to keep myself motivated, and so I can get really excited about discussing those things =P I will also admit that I have somewhat of a resentment, having experienced people calling me evil and all other sorts of things for wanting to go into the fields I have chosen.. and also being from the south...some in society have shastised me for being a girl and not settling down with a husband and just having kids.

At any rate, if you don't like my reasoning, feel free to dismiss it as an incidental venting of a sometimes frustrated girl, who also happens to post a lot while she's at school....sometimes when I get the most frustrated and am reminding myself what it's all for =P
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Old 04-27-2004, 07:14 PM   #149
crimsonedge
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Originally Posted by Kerryn
I think the day that comes when the US starts drafting people is the day every single bit of support for the war in Iraq ends.

And when the support dies, the first politician to announce the withdrawal from Iraq will be elected.
I read this and it rang a bell so I found this:

The record shows something different, indicating that 86 percent of those who died during the war were white and 12.5 percent were black, from an age group in which blacks comprised 13.1 percent of the population. Two thirds of those who served in Vietnam were volunteers, and volunteers accounted for 77 percent of combat deaths

That quote made me look up more statistics and I found this:

Draftees vs. volunteers:
25% (648,500) of total forces in country were draftees. (66% of U.S. armed forces members were drafted during WWII)
Draftees accounted for 30.4% (17,725) of combat deaths in Vietnam.
Reservists KIA: 5,977
National Guard: 6,140 served; 101 died.

91% of veterans of actual combat and 90% of those who saw heavy combat are proud to have served their country.
66% of Viet vets say they would serve again, if called upon.
87% of the public now holds Viet vets in high esteem.

http://25thaviation.org/id275.htm#personnel

Really dont believe you are right Kerryn, I think people in general are smarter than that.
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Old 04-28-2004, 02:22 AM   #150
Wildane
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Location: The Hospitality State, asshole!
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And the number one sign that points to faulty logic?
Originally Posted by Gerick
everclear has a good point
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