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Old 04-22-2004, 07:48 AM   #51
hymdall
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(1) Zolmaz can't join because they don't take retarded hermaphrodites.
I dont know, the Navy might take him....

If I remember correctly, it was Rangel (D) from NY that was calling for a draft whent he war was about to kick off. I don't recall him saying it was needed to be racially fair, I think he was hinting around the line that very few sons of the policy makers in DC were in active service and that a draft would make them think more about the war they were about to start.

Oh, Im kidding about the Navy thing, I doubt they'd take Zolmaz

Definitely Coast Guard material....

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Old 04-22-2004, 09:25 AM   #52
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I wouldn't go, if they tried to draft me. I haven't spent hundreds of thousands of dollars of my and my parents money on education, food and clothing to raise a person just to go die. Not to be rude, but I consider myself an investment, and you don't send a winning lottery ticket to the shooting gallery to get shot full of holes. It's better for me and for society if I stay here and remain productive. Otherwise, I would simply go to another country and enrich that society.

People complaining that a disproportionate amount of low income people are in the military, WAKE UP! Sorry folks, that's how it is, humans are an asset, and you don't send your most valuable capital assets out to die. Sorry if it's crude, but that's business.

~Note, that is NOT to mean that people of less education or income have less human value, it is simply a higher risk for society to soldier up people that have so much investment sunk into them. Yes I do support and love our troops =D
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Old 04-22-2004, 09:54 AM   #53
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Now remember this is me talking Everclear, a shameless rabid liberal, but if you're not willing to serve your country when called- if you're going to outright refuse citing your self-professed higher value as a person- then you don't deserve the honor of being a citizen. You'd be rightly locked up for draft dodging.

I don't want to go anymore than you do, but the whole point of selective service is that we all have the same duty- the poor don't have more of a duty to die to preserve your freedoms than you. That's some serious class-based elitism there. If you seriously think your life is more valuable than the guy who pumps your gas or picks up your trash, that they should risk their necks so you can continue on in your life uninterrupted and safe behind your legions of working class soldiers, then you sir, are fucked.

I would think differently if you were objecting based on conscience, but this is cowardice and the worst kind of elitism speaking.
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Old 04-22-2004, 10:00 AM   #54
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Well Everclear's post brings up a point. Why should "investments" be forced to take the same risk as us dregs that didn't have mommy and daddy paying our way?

I'm curious Everclear, what exactly do you do that is so important to society?

How exactly do you enrich my life or the life of my neighbor?

What have you done that you think makes you exempt from something as horrid as war?

How is what you do better than say, my wife who teached High School math or my father who was drafted to fight in Vietnam? My father designs machinery that you can actually see in fields making the life of a farmer easier thus helping him get more food from the fields. I see his "contribution" to society everyday. How are you better than him, that you would leave the country to enrich someone else first?

Why should my son, god forbidding, have to take your son's place because you left the country or because you have money?

Dont get me wrong, I'm not a fan of compulsory service, I just want to know how you're better than say, me or any other blue collar worker out there.

Your post is smack full of elitism and I'm calling you on it.

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Old 04-22-2004, 10:07 AM   #55
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I wouldn't go....to visit Everclear's sorry ass in federal prison. But I would take comfort in knowing he was there for draft-dodging and not spreading his filth in society. I am too old for the draft myself..but I would proudly give my son to military service when he came of age, and proudly lose him to maintain the liberty of this nation. It would be a terrible loss, but at the same time one of the proudest moments a family member could have.

Your post is smack full of elitism and I'm calling you on it.
Hymdall you are the man. Preach on brother.

Everclear..on a personal note to you..some of the most worthless people in the world are those with high IQ's, multiple degrees, and zero self worth or character development to show for it. An IQ of 140 and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee...the same cup of coffee a man with an IQ of 70 and a dollar will get.
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Old 04-22-2004, 10:38 AM   #56
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I have spent over half of my life in the military...and I still say I havn't seen this disproportion of lower class or minorities serving. I will agree that there is not many who come from upper class families...but as Everclear is an example of one...I wouldnt want them with me anyway and they couldnt handle it if they did go.

The military is a very good option for many people...regardless of class...as long as you realise the extent of your obligation and what it is you are signing up for. The military gave me a trade...helped me earn my degree...and helped me grow up. In return I gave my time...my effort...my loyalty...risked my life...and gave up many things that people not serving take for granted.

I have always thought that compulsary service by each person graduating high school was a good idea...but my view on that is changing somewhat as I think that while you will increase the numbers serving...you will also drastically increase the disciplinary problems...and that is something no Commander in the field or on a ship needs.

Regardless...this country will never go to a draft again...there would be a very large public outcry from all of the Baby Boomers.

We dont need more troops...we need the freedom to allow the troops to do what is necessary to win the war on terrorism...like JFK said a long time ago, we are fighting against a new kind of soldier...and if we wish to win the battle we must be just as ruthless and terrible as he is willing to be for his cause. This country doesn't have the stomach for that...and as much as I would like to become as ruthless as Isreal is in their fight...I am glad we are who we are and do things with honor....even if it means we lose some soldiers in the process...many of whom are my friends.
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Old 04-22-2004, 10:56 AM   #57
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I believe my father would be a lot more proud of me finishing up college, getting a master's degree (maybe even a Ph.d), getting the job I'm working for, getting married with kids (k...that's streching it!) than to come home in some coffin.

I've grown up watching many documentaries on war since I was a little kid. I didn't know what in the world half of the time was going on, but I'd just sit there, load one of the beta tapes on WWI/II and just watch back then. I'd ask myself, why? What would drive people like Hitler to do such atrocities? Why would our government not look into all scenarios (even the worst)? The king simply sends forth the pawns to buy more time, trying to think of a better fuck up.

Just because you go to college doesn't make you "rich". I worked my ass off to afford college. Ever see those county fairs with all those animals before they went to market to get slaughtered? I raised animals and sold them since I was 7yrs old, the money went straight to my own bank account which I never touched, even in high school (where people strive to be "cool").

Call me arrogant (god knows I can list too many times) and selfish for not wanting to be drafted, but I will not be a pawn. My only other goal than finishing up my education and "enjoying" my job would be to give back to my parents 100x.
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Old 04-22-2004, 11:33 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune
Zolmaz, the difference is I have never mouthed off about how much I'd love to sign up. Another difference is I'm not like some of you repugs who try to prop up your own flaccid cocks by ordering better men than you to go die for dubious causes. You constantly talk the talk with no remote chance of walking the walk. That's the difference Zolmaz.

As for owning my own business- no I don't Zol. My fiance does however and I take care of her financial reporting in addition to working my own (albeit crappy) full-time job. I'm hardly an enemy of the American entrepreneur. I don't really see what that has to do with anything though.

It's got nothing to do with you being too old and everything to do with you being a craven blowhard.

hehe horma, if zol is the average business man of a america its no wonder our econemy sucks.
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Old 04-22-2004, 11:37 AM   #59
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Hell would anyone explain to me WHY we really need a draft? i mean, we could relocate some men from peace keeping, pull out half from each of our stations and use them for war, see the reason we are extending tours of duty is it costs money to ship them back and ship in a new group, that is why we THINK we are short on men, we really arnt.

Real reason they keep mentioning the draft is simple, to get us used to it to the point were we let them do it because we stop fighting it, thinking it wont happen, between 2004 and 2008 i think we will invade another country we have no reason to be in.(the reason will probibly change six or seven times before we put it down in the history books im sure)
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Old 04-22-2004, 12:00 PM   #60
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I believe my father would be a lot more proud of me finishing up college, getting a master's degree (maybe even a Ph.d), getting the job I'm working for, getting married with kids (k...that's streching it!) than to come home in some coffin.
I can guarantee you your father would NOT be very proud to see you on the 6'oclock news hopping the border to Canada with the words "Draft Dodgers" rolling across the screen underneath your picture.

I would disown you, if I were your father....or wait till you came slumming home looking for a handout and turn you in to the Fed's myself.
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Old 04-22-2004, 12:13 PM   #61
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if our president can do it why cant he? oh wait, he isnt elite or rich, figures.
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Old 04-22-2004, 12:15 PM   #62
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Call me arrogant (god knows I can list too many times) and selfish for not wanting to be drafted, but I will not be a pawn. My only other goal than finishing up my education and "enjoying" my job would be to give back to my parents 100x.
It's one thing to admit that you don't want to be drafted. That's not what you originally posted. Your original post was full of "I am way above serving in the military because I am way to educated to risk my life for my country".
People like you make me sick. I seriously hope we never have to resort to the draft. It would be a sad day for the soldier that was serving proudly to have to fight alongside scum like you.
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Old 04-22-2004, 12:22 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Trith
I wouldn't go....to visit Everclear's sorry ass in federal prison. But I would take comfort in knowing he was there for draft-dodging and not spreading his filth in society. I am too old for the draft myself..but I would proudly give my son to military service when he came of age, and proudly lose him to maintain the liberty of this nation. It would be a terrible loss, but at the same time one of the proudest moments a family member could have.



Hymdall you are the man. Preach on brother.

Everclear..on a personal note to you..some of the most worthless people in the world are those with high IQ's, multiple degrees, and zero self worth or character development to show for it. An IQ of 140 and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee...the same cup of coffee a man with an IQ of 70 and a dollar will get.

you are a fucking moron.

unless it someone trying to take US over i dont see why the fuck it is "saving liberty"

If your country was invaded, no mater what the reason, wouldnt you fight back the people coming in? maybe thier nutty ass suicide bombings is their only recorse that they can see agenst being westernized.

thing is if we were to give up today, we wouldnt be invaded, thats the point, its the same reason the V. draft was wrong and the same reason we lost THAT war back in the day, not everyone is going to let us take over and leave them as a better country because of pride, or hate, or spite.

if we are the invaders and we run out of men, what does that tell us? slow the fuck down! do we really need men in iraq? no, we could ship out plenty tomarrow, we have been dropping our numbers there for over a month there, the people that went home didnt die, they are still in the army, they could head back after some R&R, but of course no one says this because we want a draft so we can take out a nation that WILL fight back.

iraq was using out of date, shitty guns and tanks, they had no real chance, iran and seria on the other hand, have decent tanks and decent guns(and missle mind you) so guess what? we are going for them next and ALL OF THIS CAPITAL B BULLSHIT is just to get us used to the idea of a draft, so no one will fight it when it comes(talking about legal fighting here, lobeying etc)

god you mother fuckers piss me off with blind loyalty, excuse my ranting but how far aside can you put the well being of your family and friends just to sound like a pompus blowheart who "loves his country"

the real people that love their country are the ones trying to preserve their rights and freedoms, not some old shit in a arm chair telling us to knuckle down and shut up
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Old 04-22-2004, 12:24 PM   #64
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Caelie,

It was Everclear posted that he was worth more than others and thus shouldn't have to serve if called.

Deadscale posted he doesn't want to be drafted. (your recent quoting)
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Old 04-22-2004, 12:28 PM   #65
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Oh and kenj, thank you for a good post, i agree with you whole heartedly about how we are acting in this way.

If shooting off some evil fucks knee caps will get me details on the bombs he planted, id do it, infact a recent general in iraq stopped a bombing by saying "enough of this shit" and shot the prisoner in the shoulder, that got him the answers he needed but he got discharged.

on the same token i want to make it clear, NO man has the right to decide who should do HIS fighting, forced service is bullshit because its only a step up from slavery, which has been romaticized by our government, no girl is gona jump in the sack with you just because you shot a guy in the face, and no man should be able to tell me i need to kill or i will be shot for treason, im sorry if i dont want to dirty my soul and kill my chance of not pissing off god just so you can make a profit off the war.
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Old 04-22-2004, 12:29 PM   #66
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It's one thing to admit that you don't want to be drafted. That's not what you originally posted. Your original post was full of "I am way above serving in the military because I am way to educated to risk my life for my country".People like you make me sick. I seriously hope we never have to resort to the draft. It would be a sad day for the soldier that was serving proudly to have to fight alongside scum like you.
Please... you are breaking my heart. And if you read my very first post as much bitching and moaning I give, I'll gladly do my job with just as much pride. Scum eh? Would scum even take time out of their day to help out elderly at those retirement homes? Would scum donate whatever is in their wallet to some war veteran standing by the road, while this "scum" is scraping for money himself to pay off bills? How are you to tell ME how to live?

I can guarantee you your father would NOT be very proud to see you on the 6'oclock news hopping the border to Canada with the words "Draft Dodgers" rolling across the screen underneath your picture.
Why Canada? I can get more in Mexico, and it's 30min away. My father opposed this conflict to begin with. (But NZ has always appealed to me, even have plenty of friends there) But I don't plan on running.
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Old 04-22-2004, 12:33 PM   #67
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All this draft talk reminds me of what a comedian said:

Why can an 18 yr. old join the military, fight in a war, lose a limb, come home, and be refused a fucking beer because he/she isn't 21?

If there is a draft, and I don't care because unlike most on this board I have served in the military, then they should change the* legal drinking age to 18.

/hijack off

*added because i can't type today
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Old 04-22-2004, 12:34 PM   #68
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All this talk is fairly irrelevant though- there isn't going to be a draft for the Iraq conflict.

Does anyone honestly think this would happen? I just can't see this going down.
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Old 04-22-2004, 12:37 PM   #69
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NZ rocks, its pretty and they keep to themselves

flub its fairly sad when i can be looked down on for having sex when im 17-18ish but i can kill a man and im some sort of fucking hero, but i cant drink, or smoke(but i can be full of metal fragments!)

horma, it isnt about iraq, think about it, what better way to qwell public outrage then to get the public used to an idea so they roll over? they start pushing it now, and use it later when bush or kerry pick their next target, they are cousins after all, wouldnt surprise me if kerry is a bush puppet and this election was a song and dance number
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Old 04-22-2004, 12:53 PM   #70
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And the Conspiracy Theory Award of the Day goes to....

Gerick! Grats~!

I just don't think even the ApeBoy himself would have the balls to bring back the draft for the sorts of missions the US undertakes in the modern era. An active volunteer armed forces with reserves seems more than adequate for anything we do.
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Old 04-22-2004, 12:53 PM   #71
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Oh...forgot something.

Are you a PROUD American Caelie? Have YOU tried to enlist in the Army? "Boohoo, I'm too old, or medically I cant!" Pride is never letting up on what you believe in.

I have Exercise Induced Asthma. Ran track and cross-country since I was in the 7th grade. I continued running at the Regional Cross Country meet after taking a runner's spike deep into top of my calf and then having him well pretty much strike it down. I kept on running at a track meet having blisters form (taking up both soles of my feet) and bleed 800meters into a 3200meter race (and placed). I needed to run the 1600meter race after that and the coach refused to let me, I couldn't even walk. Hour came by I was at the starting line with the coach yelling his lungs at me and took off in the race. Suffering a "dislocated rib" (that's what the trainer called it) during the 1600m race, I still kept my promise and ran with a buddy of mine 2 days later.

Don't you tell me what pride is. If I believed in this conflict, I'd be there right now. I wouldn't hide behind age, disability, family, I'd find my own way to be there, even it's just cheering up the troops there.

-----
NZ is damn beautiful, went there a few years back and loved it. I hated the plane ride though lol
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Old 04-22-2004, 01:07 PM   #72
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I would love to live there, but I really cant considering the trade offs, such as medical and tech.
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Old 04-22-2004, 01:46 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Everclear
I wouldn't go, if they tried to draft me. I haven't spent hundreds of thousands of dollars of my and my parents money on education, food and clothing to raise a person just to go die. Not to be rude, but I consider myself an investment, and you don't send a winning lottery ticket to the shooting gallery to get shot full of holes. It's better for me and for society if I stay here and remain productive. Otherwise, I would simply go to another country and enrich that society.

People complaining that a disproportionate amount of low income people are in the military, WAKE UP! Sorry folks, that's how it is, humans are an asset, and you don't send your most valuable capital assets out to die. Sorry if it's crude, but that's business.

~Note, that is NOT to mean that people of less education or income have less human value, it is simply a higher risk for society to soldier up people that have so much investment sunk into them. Yes I do support and love our troops =D
Only a worthless sack of shit would spout this load of buttdrivel. One more person to add to the wasted sperm list.

Before I sign off...please tell me you do not truly believe you are better than the working stiffs who serve every day, because you have a few k into an education? I have 2 degrees myself, bought and paid for by me and Uncle Sam, doesnt make me better or worse.

Better men than you have served and died...that is a tragedy. Moreso that they died defending you and your ilk.

Maybe I read your post wrong, but I doubt it.
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Old 04-22-2004, 02:03 PM   #74
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I sort of skimmed over Everclears post the first few times I read this thread, my mistake. I truely hope it was satire and not a serious expression of how she sees herself and her role in society.
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Old 04-22-2004, 02:19 PM   #75
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unless it someone trying to take US over i dont see why the fuck it is "saving liberty"
It's a damn good thing there are men in this country born with balls still, because someone has to look out for pillowbiting pussies like you and keep you rights and freedoms intact. If every man in this country believed in what you believed in we would still be living under British rule as a fucking colony you idiot.

Go have a latte..get your legs waxed and redecorate or something..but otherwise you are right..you definately don't belong in the military..they need soldiers..not targets..
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