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Old 04-15-2004, 07:05 AM   #26
Trith
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Ever thought going into Iraq actually made things worse?
Nope.


what would have been worse would have been to adopt the French idea of "lets pass another resolution to enforce the last resolution that didn't enforce the last resolution"...and if that fails..well..."we can try another resolution."
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Old 04-15-2004, 07:06 AM   #27
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Anyone else think it's absolutely hilarious how certain Americans have this 'holier-than-thou' perspective on terrorism
Heaven forbid anyone should ever fight terrorism right? If fighting terrorism is holier-than-thou..then sign me up..I'm all for it.
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Old 04-15-2004, 07:08 AM   #28
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More than likely Europe will take the offer and run and hide under a bed somewhere.
Well, Europe tells bin Laden to shove it up his ass.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapc...ape/index.html

Looks like you and the bullshit beliefs the conservatives have told you about Europe just simply don't ring true Trith.
ADMIT YOU ARE WRONG!!!! That is if you are man enough to.
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Old 04-15-2004, 07:11 AM   #29
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Bumble did you notice how France was mysteriously left out of the list of nations rejecting the offer in that article? I withold any judgments other than my original until I see action, not words from europe. Words are a cheap commodity there.

Saying "We won't deal with Bin Laden" while pulling troops out, or not providing troops, is a contradiction in terms.
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Old 04-15-2004, 07:11 AM   #30
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It wasn't a French idea; virtually every other country wan't to adopt that position, even the UK. When the US decided to go in anyway, several countries (including the UK) decided to join so they would have more influence to moderate the US administrations policies.

What you don't seem to understand is that this is a global problem, but that people have different views on how to best deal with it. Countries with much more experience in dealing with terrorism than the US understand that you cannot win a war on ideology with force. That is the fundamental problem with the position of the US administration. Every time you go in and bomb a mosque to kill 40 'terrorists', you create 400 more.
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Old 04-15-2004, 07:12 AM   #31
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you conveniently chopped the *important* part of the post Trith...

Americans have funded terror against the UK for years. Kind of tarnishes the 'great white hero' persona you're trying to project, Trith. Does it not?
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Old 04-15-2004, 07:12 AM   #32
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And dealing with it using the French method is EXACTLY what cost 3000 people their lives in the first place Sakkath. There is NO diplomatic solution to this problem...only force.
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Old 04-15-2004, 07:13 AM   #33
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Americans have funded terror against the UK for years. Kind of tarnishes the 'great white hero' persona you're trying to project, Trith. Does it not?
I'm sorry I didn't hear you..there were too many black helicopters flying over as I read your post...
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Old 04-15-2004, 07:14 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Trith
I withold any judgments other than my original until I see action, not words from europe
You mean until you see inaction? What date have you set to determine whether you made a complete ass of yourself by making outrageously incorrect assumptions?
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Old 04-15-2004, 07:15 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Trith
I'm sorry I didn't hear you..there were too many black helicopters flying over as I read your post...
NORAID? Americans were funding the IRA for years whilst the IRA spent 25 years blowing up UK citizens, murdering their political and religious oponents and dealing drugs
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Old 04-15-2004, 07:21 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Trith
And dealing with it using the French method is EXACTLY what cost 3000 people their lives in the first place Sakkath. There is NO diplomatic solution to this problem...only force.
How many innocent people have lost their lives so far by following the 'US Method'? And I don't just mean soldiers. And I know you like to have someone to demonise, but getting the UN involved wasn't the 'French method' but the method that the global majority supported. And I think we would have had better results whilst avoiding the current danger that the US will get bogged down in Iraq.

A mixture of diplomacy and force is needed; but with more emphasis on diplomacy. As an example, look how effective having countries like Pakistan as an ally have been. Do you think it would have been a better solution to invade Pakistan to try and take control of their borders?
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Old 04-15-2004, 07:35 AM   #37
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Perhaps my opinion is a bit biased because I'm American-born and -raised, but I do hope Europe tells OBL to cram it. While I feel like this truce is primarily an attempt at driving a wedge between us, I feel like it's also an attempt to threaten and manipulate Europe. If anything, I would hope it would encourage Europe (as a whole) to stand up to him and tell him they won't take his crap either.
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Old 04-15-2004, 07:39 AM   #38
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You ripped nothing to shreds. You don't understand. You arguing from a disaffected cozy little position because you don't believe you have a group of radical crazed Islamic fundamentalists who want to kill your friends and family just for breathing their air.
No Trith. You don't understand because you haven't done any research whatsoever before spouting shit. Lack of research has what has hung you out to dry today and what has made you such an easy opponent in the past.

If you had opened a news site before saying that Europe would run and hide you'd have seen we refused Bin Laden's offer. If you had opened a news site before saying that Italy was pulling out after the death of a worker you'd have seen you were wrong. If you're looking at a news site and they aren't reporting this information you need to assess whether you're reading the wrong news site or whether they have their own agenda.

They've announced this morning they'll leave us alone if we withdraw and I said we shouldnt. I then talk about how I beleive we are next and there you come on the train from Clueless Village telling me I don't believe there are terrorists? Did you read my initial post or did you just think..."Ooh a European. Let me have another go at them?"

You feel safe and cozy as long as you turn a blind eye to the rest of the world and above all you have a an over-nurtered sense of apathy that if you just "ignore" something it will eventually go away. What you are incapable of understanding is why anyone in their right mind would ever consider solving a problem instead of just letting it go.
Hit the middle wheel button on your mouse and push the whole thing forward about 6 inches. At the top you'll see a post where I specifcally state we should not turn a blind eye. Where we should not give up to make ourselves safe.

As for the rest of your post, you have this misguided idea that only America has suffered from terrorism. Read Xanthaar's post and try and do some research. It is a fact acknowledged by your own government that American money supported the IRA. You sit there, probably laughing, about the idea that America funded terrorism as if we made it up because once again you are clueless to anything that doesn't get reported on Fox News. America got duped, and it wasn't something they were proud of so it got brushed away with all the other things that people like to forget.

Kind of tarnishes the 'great white hero' persona you're trying to project, Trith. Does it not?
He's not mate. He's given up on that when we proved it was bullshit and has resorted to the We only care about ourselves argument.
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Old 04-15-2004, 07:42 AM   #39
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They will Brigiid, despite what Trith would like people to believe.

The whole statement is engineered to try and drive a wedge between the US and Europe (and I mean OBL - not Trith, although it obviously applies to both), and people see it for what it is. And it's totally hypocritcal for them to talk about not killing muslims, al-Qaeda has killed many muslims over the past few years - in fact most of their terrorist attacks have been in Muslim countries.

The one part of the statement that I agree with is that something needs to be done to address the Palastinian issue. This is a great source of grievance in the Arab world, and a fair solution would go a very, very long way.
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Old 04-15-2004, 07:58 AM   #40
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NORAID? Americans were funding the IRA for years whilst the IRA spent 25 years blowing up UK citizens, murdering their political and religious oponents and dealing drugs
That's a religous issue and organization I believe..not a political one. The US government didn't actively fund the IRA...what would we ever have to gain by undermining our single greatest ally?
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Old 04-15-2004, 08:00 AM   #41
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You mean until you see inaction?
Show me an example of French action please...other than trying to block and stall the war on terror in the UN..
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Old 04-15-2004, 08:03 AM   #42
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The whole statement is engineered to try and drive a wedge between the US and Europe
BINGO- my thoughts exactly.

Oh and last I checked, France was part of the EU. Its just that they don't currently hold the presidency to it right now.
Kudos to the EU for fighting the real war on terror.
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Old 04-15-2004, 08:05 AM   #43
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If it makes you all feel better I will revise all my criticism then....I will limit it to just the French.

Everyone else in Europe is doing their part..for now, and is greatly appreciated. I will not back off my feelings that the French are being pansy slackasses..and I feel it's for sinister reasons..IE financial partnerships with many terrorist organizations. I feel they are very worried about progress in the war on terror because it will expose something they don't want the rest of the world to find out (arms and technology sales anyone?)..I've probably gotten too upset with them, and it has bled over undeservedly to other nations so If I offended you..and you are not French, I will offer a rare apology..if you are French..I don't care what you think get off your lazy asses and help and stop being a problem and be part of the solution.
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Old 04-15-2004, 08:14 AM   #44
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Sakkath, Xanthaar..

Do you recommend Cif or Flash for cleaning monitors and keyboards?
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Old 04-15-2004, 08:20 AM   #45
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Kudos to the EU for fighting the real war on terror.
You mean Kudos to part of the EU...not all of the members have contributed.

/points to his previous post.
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Old 04-15-2004, 08:28 AM   #46
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It seems France did finally release an official statement rejecting Bin Laden's offer. Better late than never I suppose..and it least it didn't take 75 UN resolutions to do it.
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Old 04-15-2004, 08:33 AM   #47
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Finally?

According to the Erollisi Marr web server you posted at 5:05 PM GMT Trith.

A full hour earlier the news agencies went live with this. It clearly states that Jacques Chirac has also refused the deal.

See what I mean about posting before you have the full facts?

And then even after you have the facts you're still not man enough to admit you were wrong.

We've not seen any news from Belgium, Luxembourg, Hungary, Turkey, Sweden, Denmark or Switzerland yet. Keep that anti-european sentiment going strong.
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Old 04-15-2004, 08:41 AM   #48
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It seems France did finally release an official statement rejecting Bin Laden's offer. Better late than never I suppose..and it least it didn't take 75 UN resolutions to do it.
Better late than never?
bin Laden's statement isn't even 12 hours old and they have rejected it.

Trith, France is not the pacifist country that your Conservatives try to make them out to be. They are JUDICIOUS. That apparently seems to be a lost concept and your conservative talking heads think it is a sign of weakness.
Oh by the way Trith, JUDICIOUS means they fight when they need to not when they want to.
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Old 04-15-2004, 08:45 AM   #49
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It should also be pointed out that there are a large number of French troops in Afghanistan.
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Old 04-15-2004, 08:47 AM   #50
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Bush and Blair won't back down Kerryn. You can rest easy there. It's highly unlikely that Japan, Australia and some of the other coalitin will back out either.

The day we back out of our commitment will be the day I am an ashamed American.
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