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Old 04-15-2004, 02:56 AM   #1
Kerryn
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Default Bin Laden Offers Truce.

Yahoo.co.uk

DUBAI (Reuters) - A purported audio tape by Osama bin Laden, aired on Arab television, offers a truce to Europeans if they pull troops out of Muslim nations but vows to continue fighting the United States and Israel.

The voice on the tape, which sounded like that on previous broadcasts believed to be genuine, also said that the March 11 train bombings in Madrid that killed 191 people were retaliation for Spain's role in Iraq, Afghanistan and with the Palestinians.

"I offer a truce to them (Europe) with a commitment to stop operations against any state which vows to stop attacking Muslims or interfere in their affairs," the voice said on Thursday.

"The announcement of the truce starts with the withdrawal of the last soldier from our land and the door is open for three months from the date of the announcement of this statement.

"Whoever rejects this truce and wants war, we are its (war's) sons and whoever wants this truce, here we bring it."

The address to Europe looked like an attempt to exploit Trans-Atlantic differences over the war in Iraq and the Middle East peace process and notably wide disquiet among European voters and some governments about U.S. foreign policy.

It was not immediately possible to verify the authenticity of the tape broadcast by the Dubai-based Al Arabiya channel and Qatar-based Al Jazeera. The CIA has said some previous tapes allegedly by bin Laden were likely to be genuine.

The fugitive Saudi-born al Qaeda leader is believed to be in hiding somewhere in Afghanistan or on the Pakistan frontier.

"President (George W.) Bush and leaders in his sphere, big media institutions and the United Nations...all of them are a fatal danger to the world, and the Zionist lobby is their most dangerous and difficult member, and we insist, God willing, on continuing to fight them," the man on the tape said.

He vowed revenge on Israel and the United States for the death of Hamas leader Ahmed Yassin, killed last month in Gaza.

Speaking of the September 11 attacks on the United States in 2001 and this year's March 11 bombings in Spain, he said:

"Our actions come in response to your actions of destroying and killing our people in Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine. It is enough to witness the event that shocked the world, the killing of the elderly, wheelchair-bound Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, God have mercy on him, and we pledge to God to take revenge on America, God willing."

"What happened on September 11 and March 11 are your goods returned to you so that you know security is a necessity for all," the voice on the tape said.

Madrid sent troops to Iraq after Saddam Hussein was toppled and also has a contingent in Afghanistan. Militants claiming links to al Qaeda have claimed responsibility for the Madrid bombings, which have raised pressure on the government to withdraw Spanish troops from Iraq.

Spain believes most of the bombers are among Moroccans now in custody or who died in a suicide blast two weeks ago. It says they may well have had links to al Qaeda.

TRUCE FOR SPAIN

"This is a message to our neighbours north of the Mediterranean Sea with a proposal for truce in response to the positive reactions which emerged there," the man on the tape said.

He said public opinion polls in Europe showed that its people wanted peace and urged scholars, clerics and traders to form a "permanent committee to build awareness among Europeans about the justice of our causes, foremost Palestine".

"Stop shedding our blood to save your own and the solution to this simple but complex equation is in your hands. You know matters will escalate the more you delay and then do not blame us but blame yourselves. Rational people do not risk their security, money and sons to appease the White House liar."

The last purported audio tape by bin Laden was broadcast by Al Jazeera on January 4, in which the fugitive militant mentioned the arrest of Saddam by U.S. troops in December and urged Muslims to fight U.S. occupation forces in Iraq.

Another tape supposedly by bin Laden's deputy Ayman al-Zawahri, aired by Jazeera in February, warned Bush to prepare for more attacks on the United States.
There's never been any secret that I'm against the war in Iraq. I lost friends out there in 91, I've lost another this time around.

With that said I sincerely hope with all my will that every country in Europe with overseas troops in the Middle East at the moment tells Bin Laden where to shove his offer. We may have dug a hole for ourselves but it's our hole, and it's a hole we should defend to the death.

There is nothing to be gained from pulling out of the Middle East at this time. It would be an act of complete cowardice, and would forever destroy any union between Europe and the US, regardless of how many of you don't care for that anyway. Not only that but a withdrawal at this time would mean that the death of every troop that died out there would not be in vein.

I'm strongly against Blair, but I can no longer vote for any politician who would suggest we withdraw our troops on this basis. I wonder if Bin Laden knows now that with this message he has effectively sealed our co-operation with the US in the Middle East.

It saddens me, and angers me, to know that to uphold our ideals, some time in the near future, innocent civilians in my country will die once again. For as sure as this message is true, that there will be a truce if we withdraw, non-capitulation will surely provoke recriminations. There is a man who everybody must believe has both the will and the way.

But now we truely see the mentality of this man and his agenda. For years he has said he simply wants to make the middle east an independant region goverened by it's own states. He has said that he simply wishes for us to keep out of their business. As well intentioned as his ideals were, his methods were not.

But this makes it clear. By not offering the same deal to Israel and the US, it is clear he is a man after revenge, and naught more.
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Old 04-15-2004, 03:56 AM   #2
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Agreed. This man must die
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Old 04-15-2004, 04:13 AM   #3
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More than likely Europe will take the offer and run and hide under a bed somewhere. I don't see them having the stomach to do what's right...they haven't in the past..why start now? France and Germany I would imagine are already in line to kiss UBL's ass and grab the first bus out of town and Spain has already kissed ass and ran so who is really left..?
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Old 04-15-2004, 04:29 AM   #4
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Trith, it's people like you that help give such a bad impression of Americans to the rest of the world. Think about it, you 'would-be English if it wasn't for the French' moron.

And as far as the offer of this 'truce', it will do nothing but steel peoples resolve to hunt him down.
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Old 04-15-2004, 04:49 AM   #5
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Right..and most all of Europe would be German if it wasn't for the Americans...what's your point again?
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Old 04-15-2004, 05:03 AM   #6
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"More than likely Europe will take the offer and run and hide under a bed somewhere. I don't see them having the stomach to do what's right..."

Yup, that's why the Italian and British leadership have already stated that OBL can basically shove his 'offer'.

Right again as always, eh Trith?
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Old 04-15-2004, 05:05 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Trith
Right..and most all of Europe would be German if it wasn't for the Americans...what's your point again?
Actually, America would be German if it wasn't for the European and especially British resistance, but that's another argument....
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Old 04-15-2004, 05:07 AM   #8
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And how has Spain 'kissed ass' by contemplating re-deploying their troops to Afghanistan from Iraq if significant progress (read handover to the UN) hasn't taken place?

fuckwit
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Old 04-15-2004, 05:31 AM   #9
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I have to agree with Sakkath. If I thought for one moment that the majority of people in the US were like Trith there would be no alliance at all. Lets face it, all you've done is used this post to have another baseless, clueless dig again. And once again, as per usual you've shown yourself up to be completely wrong as European governments are quick to respond refusing the truce. The british have never backed down from a fight and are unlikely to any time soon.

I get the feeling it's not so much a show of solidarity towards the US though, but because we won't pull out of the Middle East because it's the wrong thing to do.

Where the french go now is anybody's guess. I suspect they will also refuse the offer but they've taken such an ear bashing lately from idiots like Trith who knows. Very difficult to find a french person to ask any more, since they were driven off these boards a year ago.

Is it your intention to piss off as many Europeans as possible? You might not care what we do and don't think we're necessary but your government certainly thinks differently.

When the attack happens over here, and more of my friends and loved ones are killed, I'll think of you Trith and all the other ignorant arseholes like you who they're dieing for. And given that I work in one of Englands biggest cities, and this happens to be one of my last posts on this board, I'd just like to say a big "Fuck You" to you and those that share your beliefs.


Edit :
Actually, America would be German if it wasn't for the European and especially British resistance, but that's another argument....
I think that's unlikely to be fair. Whilst it's certain they'd have taken many more losses then they did the huge body of water between Germany and the US would have prevented the Nazis from mounting a serious invasion. This is what was the undoing of the British in the civil war. It simply took us far too long to bring reinforcements in.

Although without British there would certainly have been many many more US civilians killed.
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Old 04-15-2004, 05:47 AM   #10
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I think that fighting a war on two fronts would have stretched the US, but you're right, it was probably unfair. The reason we were successful in WW2 was the cooperation between the US and Europe. We need to harness that multi-lateral cooperation if we are to be successful in combating terrorism, not the devisive and unilateral policies that some would propose.

Historically, it is not the strong that survive, it is those that learn to work and cooperate with others.
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Old 04-15-2004, 05:49 AM   #11
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Well actually Kerryn, the majority of England didnt want to fight Charles.
Support for War of JenKins Ear was lukewarm at best
and England didnt really WANT to fight the US in 1812.

BUT I agree that they did fight after all.
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Old 04-15-2004, 05:54 AM   #12
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Explain to me how we have an alliance now? We have us and...the UK...that's your "European" Alliance? Spain has already gone ass up...France and Germany took it in the ass from the very beginning..where is this mystical "alliance" you keep refering too.

Sorry..I'm just tired of the world trying to feed the ego's of nations that are too shitty to do anything about problems that directly effect them..especially France and Germany. Terrorism is not a US issue..it's a global issue..and unfortunately two of the largest powers in Europe have decided they would like to just "sit this one out".

I have no respect for anyone who refuses to defend themselves or their citizens.

Whether or not you like me or my nation is completely irrelevant..I, and most Americans could honestly care less what you think. We care about one thing..our own security..and if it pisses you off that we are trying to secure a future for our children..guess what...fuck off and have a nice day.

I really have no desire to sacrifice my family to terrorists so some politician somewhere can pat an aristocratic French toad on the back to make him feel better about being a pussy.
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Old 04-15-2004, 05:57 AM   #13
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Yup, that's why the Italian and British leadership have already stated that OBL can basically shove his 'offer'.
And this is also why the Italians are now contemplating pulling out of Iraq after *gasp* 1 of their civilians was executed by terrorists. yeah..that sound's dedicated to me...

fucktard.
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Old 04-15-2004, 06:05 AM   #14
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Trith, please do not presume to speak for the majority of America. Some of us have no wish to alienate ourselves with the rest of the world.
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Old 04-15-2004, 06:10 AM   #15
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Fine then..you can kiss Europe's ass all day Wildane..just remember if your family dies as a result of concessions made to terrorists on behalf of "staying friendly" with Europe...you might as well have killed them yourself.

Most all of my anger goes toward France. I'm not as ticked at Germany..but frankly if France went down in a cloud of radioactive fire I would not shed a freakin tear.

I'm probably overreacting..but I stand by what I say when it comes to the French..because what scares me about them is they seem to be ACTIVELY trying to stop other nations from helping in the war on terror.
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Old 04-15-2004, 06:16 AM   #16
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Trith speaks the truth
Explain to me how we have an alliance now? We have us and...the UK...that's your "European" Alliance? Spain has already gone ass up...France and Germany took it in the ass from the very beginning..where is this mystical "alliance" you keep refering too.

Sorry..I'm just tired of the world trying to feed the ego's of nations that are too shitty to do anything about problems that directly effect them..especially France and Germany. Terrorism is not a US issue..it's a global issue..and unfortunately two of the largest powers in Europe have decided they would like to just "sit this one out".

I have no respect for anyone who refuses to defend themselves or their citizens.

Whether or not you like me or my nation is completely irrelevant..I, and most Americans could honestly care less what you think. We care about one thing..our own security..and if it pisses you off that we are trying to secure a future for our children..guess what...fuck off and have a nice day.

I really have no desire to sacrifice my family to terrorists so some politician somewhere can pat an aristocratic French toad on the back to make him feel better about being a pussy.
A lot of europe doesnt like the US, im sure they like our money over there, but as proof by sakkath and kerryn they think of us as arrogant warmongers and are basically afraid we will get them all killed. Europe needs another Hitler to remind them how much we protect their interests.
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Old 04-15-2004, 06:29 AM   #17
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Fine then..you can kiss Europe's ass all day Wildane..just remember if your family dies as a result of concessions made to terrorists on behalf of "staying friendly" with Europe...you might as well have killed them yourself.
Yes, because it's Europe's fault that terrorists fucking hate us so much *shakes his fist at Europe*. And we only have them to blame for the internal security of our nation failing us. SHAME ON YOU EUROPE!!

Nobody's kissing ass here, Trith. If some countries want to basically turn their backs on us, then they can fend for themselves from now on. But to blame them for future terrorist attacks on our soil or our citizens is ludicrous.
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Old 04-15-2004, 06:30 AM   #18
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Explain to me how we have an alliance now? We have us and...the UK...that's your "European" Alliance? Spain has already gone ass up..
Spain has told you it will shift it's forces out of Iraq, into Afghanistan and Israel if you don't hand over control to the Iraqi government as planned. They, like Germany and Italy are still very active on the war on terrorism and you get much of your intelligence on terrorism from the likes of Interpol. They then let you use their country as a staging area, to hold reserves. There's your alliance.

France and Germany never stated they would not go to war. They stated that they would not go to war unless the UN supported the attack, so before that resolution came you started calling them cowards and think they'd do anything to help you. That's how fucking clueless you are.

Sorry..I'm just tired of the world trying to feed the ego's of nations that are too shitty to do anything about problems that directly effect them..especially France and Germany.
and
I have no respect for anyone who refuses to defend themselves or their citizens.
As we've seen today France and Germany aren't as directly effected as you've got it into your head. Most of the worlds terrorist organisations have no argument whatsoever with Europe unless they support America. These countries could easily defend themselves once and for all from terrorism by walking away. They have today announced they will not do that.

Whether or not you like me or my nation is completely irrelevant..
You have an overinflated sense of your own self worth as does Chuk. I dislike you both particularly, not Americans. I think you are both arrogant twats and you play the same card over and over again. One last time for you, I don't think Americans are arrogant twats or warmongers..I think a seclect few, you two included are. Some of the best people I ever had the pleasure to play EQ with are Americans, and many of the people I play Galaxies with are too.

I, and most Americans could honestly care less what you think.
Oh? Did you have a poll? Are you speaking for most Americans or are you yet again speaking out of your arse? You might like to think that the majority of your countrymen share your anti-European sentiment but you've been wrong on everything else so I imagine this is another step out for you.

We care about one thing..our own security..and if it pisses you off that we are trying to secure a future for our children..guess what...fuck off and have a nice day.
Here we go. Gone is all your idealistic talk of deposing Saddam Hussein to help the Iraqis. Now it's about one thing...you.

So you talk of European cowardice and yet go on to say how you only care about yourself. Now that's the funniest thing I've read all week. All European governments would have to do to ensure our own security is have your selfish attitude too.

If we only cared about ourselves we could walk out of the Middle East and leave everone to die. In the same move we wouldn't have to care about leaving American soldiers on their own out there too and we could leave them to die. And we would secure one thing...our own safety. For a time. We haven't done that because we care about the victims of the middle east, and we care about those American troops we fight alongside. I dont think this is about European cowardice. I think its about your cowardice.

I really have no desire to sacrifice my family to terrorists so some politician somewhere can pat an aristocratic French toad on the back to make him feel better about being a pussy.
The irony is that you expect the French to sacrifice their families for a politician miles away and get angry when they will not. You don't want an alliance. You want a diversion and you want cannon fodder.

And this is also why the Italians are now contemplating pulling out of Iraq after *gasp* 1 of their civilians was executed by terrorists. yeah..that sound's dedicated to me...
Fucking hell can one person actually be this stupid. Why yes. Yes they can.

Trith speaks the truth
Actually no. He speaks bullshit but you're too stupid to smell it.

Last edited by Kerryn; 04-15-2004 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 04-15-2004, 06:44 AM   #19
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Missed this one.
Europe needs another Hitler to remind them how much we protect their interests.
So what you're basically saying is that Europe needs to suffer yet more deaths so you can inflate your ego? You speak of "we" like you actually believe that you personally Chuk defend the interest of civilisation.

Wildane, can you understand now why I accuse certain people on this board of being warmongers?
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Old 04-15-2004, 06:44 AM   #20
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One last time for you, I don't think Americans are arrogant twats or warmongers..I think a seclect few, you two included are
Well I can see my point went about 4 miles over your head. Let me clarify things for you again:

"I don't care what you think."

There that should do it.
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Old 04-15-2004, 06:53 AM   #21
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Nothing warms my heart like reading a thread where Trith gets a mudhole stomped in his ass with every opposition reply
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Old 04-15-2004, 06:53 AM   #22
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Wow. I rip your post to shreds and you can only reply with "I dont care what you think"?
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Old 04-15-2004, 06:56 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Trith
"I don't care what you think."
And with that attitude, the war on terrorism is already lost.

Ever thought going into Iraq actually made things worse?
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Old 04-15-2004, 07:01 AM   #24
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Anyone else think it's absolutely hilarious how certain Americans have this 'holier-than-thou' perspective on terrorism, when they've been fucking funding Sinn Fein (AKA mouthpiece of the IRA) for years?

Or is it just me...?
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Old 04-15-2004, 07:03 AM   #25
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You ripped nothing to shreds. You don't understand. You arguing from a disaffected cozy little position because you don't believe you have a group of radical crazed Islamic fundamentalists who want to kill your friends and family just for breathing their air. You feel safe and cozy as long as you turn a blind eye to the rest of the world and above all you have a an over-nurtered sense of apathy that if you just "ignore" something it will eventually go away. What you are incapable of understanding is why anyone in their right mind would ever consider solving a problem instead of just letting it go.

The problem has not hit home for you...yet. Keep ignoring it..keep scratching your head and wondering why the US wants to stand up for itself and when 3000 of your friends family and loved ones and country-men get vaporized by a religous fanatic for no reason other than being whatever nationality they are you might begin to understand.

When you will really understand will be the day you go to your friends and ask them for help in bringing the terrorists, their networks, and countries that support them to justice and these long term so called "allies" decide to tell you "nahh..we will sit this one out".

I hope for your sake you don't have to deal with this problem..but the reality is, you will..and right now you are so disaffected you honestly believe you can sit in judgement of the victim. This will change when you become the victim.
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