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Old 04-13-2004, 05:49 AM   #26
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You're both full of shit and you know it
How exactly am I full of shit? I didn't read any of the links, I simply answered the question I have in quotes up there; I am not speaking specifically of this case. I merely pointed out how inane it would be to accept the statements found on a partisan website as the best source of the truth.
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Old 04-13-2004, 05:57 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Wildane
I didn't read any of the links
'nuff said.
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Old 04-13-2004, 07:45 AM   #28
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Man, you really can be dumb as a post, you know that, Horm? You asked the question of what could be better than Kerry's own website to refute accusations of him. THAT is what I addressed. I do not need to read his website to know that you won't find anything but praise for the man. I know for a FACT, that you will NOT find any impartiality at all on his website. I am not concerned with the issue in the initial post at all, halfwit. Do I really need to dumb it down even more?
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Old 04-13-2004, 07:47 AM   #29
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You know what's really funny, though? I KNEW you were going to single out that statement to try and use it against me. Sorry, not gonna make it that easy on you, sparky. You get a D+ for effort, though!
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Old 04-13-2004, 07:48 AM   #30
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D+ is generous for Horm..
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Old 04-13-2004, 08:07 AM   #31
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Wildane- you didn't read the link so you didn't notice the NBC transcript (which i've mentioned how many times now and you cretins on the right have failed to acknowledge it?) that makes up the main point of the rebuttal. NBC != John Kerry. So yes- there's the impartiality, such as that concept is available in media. Do I need to dumb it down any further for you is the real question?

And if you're so uninterested in the point at hand then fuck off. Unless you've got any substantive material to contribute you're just taking up space. In fact, none of you bozos have contributed anything in this thread except one highly discredited op-ed collumn from a disreputable tabloid newspaper and a bunch of drooling "Right on!!!"s.

If you've got proof of Kerry's wrong doing then post it up- I'm interested to hear what you can come up with. Then again, supporting argument with fact has never been a strong suit of this board's conservatards. Put up or shut up ladies.
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Old 04-13-2004, 08:16 AM   #32
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Horm, where is the probe finding that Kerry said he triggered? You know, the in which he never followed up on. The one in which the GAO said they never did. Or are you just going to forget he said that?
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Old 04-13-2004, 08:18 AM   #33
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HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!! You STILL don't get it, numbnuts! What a surprise.
NBC != John Kerry. So yes- there's the impartiality, such as that concept is available in media
WRONG! What you see is a report defending or glorifying Kerry and that is why it is linked from his site. You can guarantee if that report corroborated any evidence pointing to Kerry lying, it would not be there. Why not? It concerns Kerry. Well, I'll tell you why, because you just don't seem to be able to get it into that monkey head of yours. Because the website isn't impartial. It will not display the bad with the good, hence it is not an objective source of information. Do you understand yet, shit-for-brains?

As far as not contributing to the initial post, so what? I am responding to a statement made in a proceeding post; that's what a DISCUSSION is. You brought up the validity of the website, so YOU opened the door, fool. Don't like it? Then YOU can fuck off
If you've got proof of Kerry's wrong doing then post it up- I'm interested to hear what you can come up with. Then again, supporting argument with fact has never been a strong suit of this board's conservatards. Put up or shut up ladies.
My argument was never about Kerry's alleged wrong-doings. Why should support something I never claimed in the first place?

Man, try reading the actual posts, loser. I'm not one to usually pepper my posts with insults, but man, you just don't get it. And instead of trying to understand, you would rather spend your time on the defensive, which is only because you put yourself there.
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Old 04-13-2004, 10:08 AM   #34
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Apparently I can't dumb it down enough for Cletus here, so I'm going to move on to dealing with people who while off-base are at least discussing the issue. Find help here .

I repeatedly see this reference to Kerry telling the Boston Globe that he triggered this probe. However, I searched the Globe archives and didn't find anything of the sort. I'm not saying it's not there but I haven't found it. Does anyone have a link to Kerry's actual statement? This is part of my problem with the Post article's low journalistic quality- no direct quotations, just vagaries (<-edit). It's hard to look into a quote when I haven't even seen it.

I wish google had a filter to get rid of small-time websites and extremist message-boards and blogs (of both sides). It's like dental work trying to pull out real information from the clutter of political zealotry on the web.
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Last edited by Hormadrune; 04-13-2004 at 10:35 AM. Reason: Crimsonedge said I could get a C- if I corrected my spelling
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Old 04-13-2004, 11:01 AM   #35
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I hate to bust up this thread but the New York Post is yellow journalism at it's finest, and a right wing smear rag at it's worst.. I'd give that article just as much credibility if I'd read it in the National Enquirer. What's even scarier is that people believe this shit.

Find another source in the mainstream media for this wild tale and I'll recant, until then I consider the entire basis for this thread to be stillborn.

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Old 04-13-2004, 12:23 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune
I repeatedly see this reference to Kerry telling the Boston Globe that he triggered this probe. However, I searched the Globe archives and didn't find anything of the sort. I'm not saying it's not there but I haven't found it. Does anyone have a link to Kerry's actual statement? This is part of my problem with the Post article's low journalistic quality- no direct quotations, just vagaries (<-edit). It's hard to look into a quote when I haven't even seen it.
The US General Accounting Office conducted an undercover investigation of airport security measures after Senator John F. Kerry provided a tape of a Boston television station report on lapses earlier this year at Logan International Airport, Kerry said.


''They began an undercover investigation in response, specifically, to our inquiry,'' Kerry told reporters at the State House.


Kerry said he did not know the outcome of the probe.


His press secretary, Kelley Benander, said the GAO told the senator's office about the investigation in June.


The GAO, the investigative arm of Congress, however, yesterday issued a statement saying that ''we are not presently conducting any airport screening investigations'' and said it would provide no further information than appears on its Web site.


The GAO's most recent report to Congress was issued Aug. 31, 11 days before the terrorist suicide hijackings at Logan, Dulles, and Newark airports. It involved a survey of two airports - Logan was not one - and 41 federal office buildings. The report found that nearly all the facilities had taken steps to upgrade security after GAO undercover agents in April and May 2000 were ''100 percent successful in penetrating ... targeted sites'' with bogus credentials or badges.


http://www.boston.com/news/packages/...t_Logan+.shtml

There it is, I put up now you shut up. Took me a whole one google search. Tough to find when your not looking Horm.
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Old 04-13-2004, 12:28 PM   #37
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I hate to bust up this thread but the New York Post is yellow journalism at it's finest, and a right wing smear rag at it's worst.. I'd give that article just as much credibility if I'd read it in the National Enquirer. What's even scarier is that people believe this shit.
Don't you just love how easy it is to disregard media sources you don't like or agree with? I do it all the time with CNN and NYT...
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Old 04-13-2004, 01:02 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Me
I'm not saying it's not there but I haven't found it.
I did indeed look for it Crimsontard- in fact, I went out of my way not to claim the item didn't exist but that I had as of yet been unable to find it.

My initial google was too cluttered I think since I had included too many terms. Sorry I didn't spend all afternoon on my homework project and had the nerve to ask if anyone had a link

"/google kerry gao boston globe" worked perfectly though. I never said it didn't exist.

As to shutting up on your account cuntflaps- don't flatter yourself. In fact, you only muddied the waters of your already dubious argument.

GAO spokesman Jeff Nelligan would not elaborate on the statement or say whether the GAO had ever conducted a similar probe of Logan.

Robert H. Hast, head of GAO's office of special investigations, said, ''At OSI, we do not comment on any ongoing investigations.''
Now this could go either way- did he or didn't he ask for an investigation? Did they or did they not conduct said investigation?

Where's the current follow-up though? This shit is old news (the globe article is 9/15/01) and not definitively for or against Kerry since it leaves things so open-ended.

He could have lied or mistated things- absolutely- all politicians do, some worse than others. But you guys haven't done dick to prove it. Show us current follow-up that shows he lied and I'll be the first to admit you're right. Til then- piss off.
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Old 04-13-2004, 01:17 PM   #39
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Actually I commend Crimsonedge for finding a reputable source for the story.

It made me want to know more though so I started digging.

It turns out that the GAO August 31, 2001 wasn't really a special report by any stretch but was one in a series of warnings to Congress about lax airport security.

Here's a link to the actual GAO web site that shows these investigations had been uncovering and reporting weak airport screening since at least Oct 1987.

http://www.gao.gov/airptsec.html

So to sum it up: Congress, the FAA, and presidents Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush ignored the threat for fourteen years or did as little as possible to counter the problem.
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Old 04-13-2004, 01:32 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Trith
Don't you just love how easy it is to disregard media sources you don't like or agree with? I do it all the time with CNN and NYT...
Who said I agreed or disagreed with them? I just like to think for myself and like to have more than one source before I consider it to have any merit. If you want to call Post unbiased I've got some scary stuff I can show you about how much media control Rupert Murdoch has.

Also note that Crimsonedge didn't find his corrobrating story in either CNN or NYT, but rather in the Boston Globe, the same paper that the neocons slammed back when they released the Bush AWOL story.
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Old 04-14-2004, 04:23 AM   #41
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Apparently I can't dumb it down enough for Cletus here, so I'm going to move on to dealing with people who while off-base are at least discussing the issue.
Translation: "I cannot possibly admit that I am wrong, so I'll just toss out an inane jibe to distract the readers from the fact that I couldn't possibly argue the pro side of why men and women should get married."

Face it, Horm, you've only yourself to blame. As I stated, you invited discussion on the topic, since you are the one that brought it up. I know it's much easier to insult my intelligence than to admit that you are, in fact, wrong, so I can understand cornered weasel approach you are so fond of using. Must be taking your cue from AresProphet's sig.

As far as the original topic is concerned, in my opinion, the finger-pointing has grown tiresome on both sides. It's a shame we can't actually discuss a topic without resorting to that. But no, one side always has to take a jab at the other. This is why, although my views are usually leaning towards the conservative side, I will not officially associate with either party.
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Old 04-14-2004, 04:47 AM   #42
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How am I wrong tard? Because you said so? Riiiight Wildane you are, have always been, and will always be a shitstain both upon these boards and this fair earth. Someone should have told your mother about the miracles of abortion
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Old 04-14-2004, 05:04 AM   #43
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I have already explained how you are wrong, you are just incapable of understanding. But then, what can you expect from a child. Well, except for the continued barrage of mediocre wit (and I'm really stretching when I include the word "wit" when it comes to you). Nice to know you are every bit as cliche as I made you out to be .
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Old 04-14-2004, 05:28 AM   #44
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No one person is responsible for 9/11 - not Bush, not Clinton, not Kerry, not any other single individual involved over the last ~15 years or so. You can only prepare and predict and plan for so much. We got duped, plain and simple. We weren't prepared, as a nation. They didn't suggest enough pre-emptive changes, and we probably wouldn't have accepted them without evidence of necessity. We all bear a portion of the responsibility for what happened that day.

People lie in general. I'm not sure why everyone is surprised. Trying to pin 9/11 on a single person is ludricous, regardless of who the current favorite "whipping boy" is.
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Old 04-14-2004, 06:20 AM   #45
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Wildane- you haven't explained a thing. You have clearly demonstrated your inability to read or reason effectively numerous times- thanks for the reenforcement- but you certainly haven't explained how I'm wrong. Here's a cookie for the effort though.

I can never tell whether to dislike you or pity you Wildane. I went to school with a kid who was slow- not DS but handicapped to a fair degree. However, out of frustration I guess, he compensated for his slowness by picking fights with people who were clearly able to wipe the floor with him. It got so bad eventually that in junior high school the administration literally sent him home 10 minutes earlier than the rest of the school so he could get a head start on the people from whom he'd begged a beating during the day.

I wonder sometimes if he didn't grow up to become you. The same inability to reason, the same drooling frustration, even the same bad habit of getting into fights with people who are clearly your superior. Almost makes me feel guilty. Almost.
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Old 04-14-2004, 07:40 AM   #46
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That's certainly a touching story, Horm, and I'm glad to see administration at the school you're attending took pity on you...err, I mean, "the other guy" (don't worry, your secret is safe with me ).

As far as showing where you are wrong, I'll try this once more, although the inability for me to draw pictures here prevents me from explaining things in terms you can truly understsand. This is you opening the door to new conversation:
Originally Posted by Hormadrune
Where better to get a rebuttal to the nonsensical horseshit that you slopped up on the board?
To which I questioned the site's impartiality. You then stated:
Originally Posted by Hormadrune
Wildane- read the link. 95 percent of the text they devote to this issue is a transcript from Nightline (an NBC program).
which doesn't reinforce your statement that this site is impartial, because, as you also stated
Originally Posted by Hormadrune
NBC != John Kerry
Now, here's where your poor little brain just can't keep up. NBC is an objective news source. This particular report dissuades the accusations in the NY Post. The simple fact that this is on their website does NOT make the website impartial, because it is favorable to Kerry. How many stories that put him in a bad light will you find there?
Originally Posted by the dictionary
Impartial - not partial or biased; unprejudiced
Do you honestly mean to tell me John Kerry's web site is unbiased?
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Old 04-14-2004, 11:15 AM   #47
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Wildane are you that fucking retarded?

Is a news site not supposed to have an article favorable to anyone in order to be impartial? The mere presence of one that objectively defends someone's actions does not bias make. This is because, sometimes, the truth is that false accusations are made without basis. Is it biased to reveal those accusations as nothing more than hot air? No, in fact it follows the code of journalistic integrity, something the NY Post blatantly violated.

An impartial source doesn't have to have material completely devoid of any favored side. The only important thing is that it doesn't twist a story to favor a party it shouldn't.

Kerry's website then links to that article because it is favorable to them, not the other way around as you seem to think (NBC didn't air it because it was favorable to him). Of course a politician is going to want people to read news that favors him, what the fuck do you expect? It's a reputable source showing facts that happen to support Kerry. I'd expect Bush's campaign to do the exact same thing, if an article objectively shows facts that favor Bush.

You really need to stop being so fucking paranoid and partisan.
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Old 04-14-2004, 02:33 PM   #48
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Ares, I am apparently not as fucking retarded as you.
Kerry's website then links to that article because it is favorable to them, not the other way around as you seem to think (NBC didn't air it because it was favorable to him).
I believe I already fucking stated that. In fact, that was the main fucking point in my fucking argument. I already fucking stipulated that NBC was an objective fucking source.
Of course a politician is going to want people to read news that favors him, what the fuck do you expect?
Which is exactly why it is fucking biased.
It's a reputable source showing facts that happen to support Kerry.
Which does not fucking make it fucking unbiased.
I'd expect Bush's campaign to do the exact same thing, if an article objectively shows facts that favor Bush.
Bush's fucking web site isn't any more fucking impartial than fucking Kerry's.
You really need to stop being so fucking paranoid and partisan.
You fucking really fucking need to fucking learn to fucking read, mmkay?
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Old 04-14-2004, 07:30 PM   #49
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NBC is an objective news source. This particular report dissuades the accusations in the NY Post. The simple fact that this is on their website does NOT make the website impartial, because it is favorable to Kerry. How many stories that put him in a bad light will you find there?
Either you're a goddamn hypocrite or you have really poor writing skills. Clarify yourself, because right here it looks like you go from "NBC is objective" to "NBC is not impartial".
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Old 04-15-2004, 03:46 AM   #50
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Well, the goddamned website I'm referring to is Kerry's. The article from NBC is posted on Kerry's website, which has been stated in this thread more than once. Fucking happy?
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