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Old 04-12-2004, 07:49 AM   #26
bumbleroot
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Here is a bit of chronology from that day-
http://www.vho.org/tr/2003/3/Elsis273-284.html
Note the following from this excerpt
8:17 a.m.: After 3 minutes and 30 seconds of lost voice contact with American Airlines Flight 11, the FAA should have started to implemented Standard Intercept Procedures
Apart from the black helicopters- This is mainly put in here as a chronology. The interesting question is that the standard intercept procedures were no longer in place as of June of 2001.
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Old 04-12-2004, 11:56 AM   #27
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From my understanding, they knew the second plane was hijacked before it hit the tower. "They" being the FAA. In all likelihood they knew the first plane was too, but standard procedure at that time was to attempt to negotiate, instead of shooting them down. For the most part people were concerned about keeping the passangers alive, and didn't consider that the plane could be used as a missile.

Nobody is at fault, and if you say "we should have shot down that plane" you're only saying that because of hindsight. And I can guarantee you that if a plane is hijacked in the future it will be shot down if it gets within 5 miles of a major population center. However, this wasn't our policy in the past, with good reason, because the possibility of major damage from a suicide hijacking seemed remote.
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Old 04-12-2004, 01:24 PM   #28
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I'm not suggesting anything. I think the lack of action is concerning.
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Old 04-12-2004, 01:27 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by AresProphet
Nobody is at fault, and if you say "we should have shot down that plane" you're only saying that because of hindsight. And I can guarantee you that if a plane is hijacked in the future it will be shot down if it gets within 5 miles of a major population center. However, this wasn't our policy in the past, with good reason, because the possibility of major damage from a suicide hijacking seemed remote.
Great point, and one I totally agree with.
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Old 04-12-2004, 02:42 PM   #30
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I remember 9/11 quite well, and as I recall.. people didn't know where the second plane was headed, because of loss of communication. I was living in Houston at the time, and there wa a real fear that the second plane could be headed toward downtown. All of downtown Houston was evacuated!

It really isn't fair to judge those events given the current information. When I first heard about the first tower on the radio, I didn't even believe it was true. It took about 30 min to realize that something like this could even happen. It is understandable, the president would want as much info as possible before reacting.
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Old 04-12-2004, 02:50 PM   #31
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Also, what kind of damage would have been done by shooting down 5 planes on the suspicious of hijacking?

Can you imagine the family members balking at their relatives being killed by their own government, without being given a fighting chance to get to safety? What if there were some error and the hijacking wasn't what it seemed? What if the passengers were able to overpower the hijacker? Then he'd be the president that shot down planes full of US citizens over US soil without even looking for other options. I'm sure he'd have been taken to task for that decision too.

What sort of physical damage would have been done by shooting down a plane? Given that I don't know much about where exactly the planes were at the time or with what speed they were travelling...would the pieces of falling fragment land on houses, on people, etc? That particular area of the east coast is heavily populated.

Granted, the death toll might not have been as high as the WTC, but you have to account for the destruction of life and property that occurs when you shoot down 5 passenger planes full of people over a residential area.

I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here. In the matter of minutes he had to respond, I don't know that he could have anticipated what was to come. If he shot down those planes, he had definite damage and death to consider. If he didn't shoot them down, there was the off-chance that another course of action would have resolved the situation.

People hijack planes, cars, etc., for any number of reasons. Even given the sketchy intel he had, there is no way he could have predicted, within a matter of minutes, that this is how things would turn out. Comparing him to previous leaders isn't exactly fair. Granted, many of them have done great things, and many of them were fortunate to have things turn out like they'd planned. Hindsight is 20/20. Trying to guage how they'd handle current events with the resources we have is risky at best.
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Old 04-13-2004, 07:53 AM   #32
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And that, Brigiid, is exactly why it was policy to not shoot them down.
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Old 04-13-2004, 08:08 AM   #33
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What I'm getting at is that fact that tower 2 wasn't evacuated. Why? The airlines knew that they had lost more then 1 plane. Our intelligence agencies knew of the possibility of multiple targets(if they are intelligent).
Well, you just answered your own question. They knew the possibility of multiple targets, but that doesn't tell them what those other targets were. That said, they should have evacuated the second building immediately, as tower 1's collapse would have affected it, as well. Course, I'm sure that's Bush's fault, too.

And Bumble, you have no idea what it takes to be the President of the United States, so you cannot possibly know the best way to resolve any situation at the time it's happening. Until you are put into that position, then you cannot say what he SHOULD have done, so why not just stop the broken record routine and shut the fuck up.
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Old 04-13-2004, 08:14 AM   #34
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Yup, sorry Bumble, you don't get to criticize the president until you become president first

Do I have to become a stumbling asstard to gain the pure-peer relationship with you Wildane that would permit me to criticize you?
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Old 04-13-2004, 08:39 AM   #35
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It's one thing to criticize the President, but it's quite another to sit here and say how things should be done. If you don't know all the aspects of the circumstance, then you really have no idea what should be done. You can give your opinion on what should be done all day long, but until you are placed in that situation, your opinion means dick. Doesn't take a genius to figure that one out, Horm, but then again, that's why I'm surprised you didn't.
Do I have to become a stumbling asstard to gain the pure-peer relationship with you Wildane that would permit me to criticize you?
1. You are already a stumbling asstard
2. The only way for us to be peers is if I were to have myself lobotomized.
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Old 04-13-2004, 09:51 AM   #36
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There's nothing funnier than watching a self-important eunuch like Wildane get his onesies in a bunch. Thanks for the chuckles- you never fail to deliver
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Old 04-13-2004, 11:14 AM   #37
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When you are all talking about the second plane I am curious which of the four planes you are refering to?

There were 4 planes hijacked. First one that hit WTC 1 (Not exactly sure which tower was hit first) second one hit WTC 2 third one hit the Pentagon forth was crashed by the passengers in a field in PA. If I recall correctly many of the passengers on the planes had called family and friends to say goodbye. I am sure that the Air Force was heading to intercept (that was the word they used on the news at the time) the forth plane. By the time the forth plane was identified there was no longer any question that it was a flying bomb waiting to happen because by that point all the other 3 planes had hit thier targets.

If you think that our government would allow that plane to fly into another building at that point you are deluding yourself. That final plane was the one they thought was to head to the White House.
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Old 04-14-2004, 04:10 AM   #38
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I disagree Horm. It's much funnier to see how you have to resort to childish insults because you can't argue your point. Maybe when you've grown up and actually start acting like a man, you'll realize that you don't need me to make you look like such an imbecile, you're already doing such a splendid job all by yourself
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