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Old 04-10-2004, 11:01 AM   #1
MoggeTreestump
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Default One question

If there was warning of 9/11 a month prior to the incident why didn't someone speak up after the first plane hit?

What I'm getting at is that fact that tower 2 wasn't evacuated. Why? The airlines knew that they had lost more then 1 plane. Our intelligence agencies knew of the possibility of multiple targets(if they are intelligent).

Why wasn't the call made to evacuate?

I can't place blame on any one person but I'm certain some will try to.
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Old 04-10-2004, 01:28 PM   #2
bumbleroot
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There were four planes hijacked and we did nothing until an hour later. The standard procedure when there is a plane hijacked is to mobilize the Air Force. This never happened. Instead our president gave no orders and continued to read to 2nd grade children. HE FROZE!!!!
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Old 04-10-2004, 01:41 PM   #3
Tuan00Dorf
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I can't place blame on any one person but I'm certain some will try to.
Leave that to the bumbling idiot.
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Old 04-10-2004, 03:09 PM   #4
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
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Originally Posted by Bumbleroot
There were four planes hijacked and we did nothing until an hour later.
The standard procedure when there is a plane hijacked is to mobilize the Air
Force. This never happened. Instead our president gave no orders and
continued to read to 2nd grade children. HE FROZE!!!!
I know you would have prefered that Bush ran down the hallway with
his arms flailing and scaring the hell out of the children.

Now, that would be leadership in your pacifist cowardly eyes.

Bush handled it like a leader and remained calm. If you look into what
his security adviser(?) told him after the first plane hit, you would
understand why he didn't abruptly leave. But then, you could care
less about the facts..


GOD BLESS AMERICA
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Old 04-10-2004, 04:23 PM   #5
AresProphet
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Maybe you'd care to link that Zolmaz?

Not that I'm trying to say anything about the accuracy of your claims, but if you are going to say "look into" something, pull up Goggle and do it yourself. It really helps make your argument, instead of just portraying you as saying a lot without really saying anything.
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Old 04-10-2004, 04:23 PM   #6
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
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A thought,
How long did it take us to respond to Pearl Harbor?




Z..
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Old 04-10-2004, 04:37 PM   #7
AresProphet
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Who's asking? Not me. You said this:

If you look into what
his security adviser(?) told him after the first plane hit
And I asked for a link.

I'd be much obliged if you would comply.
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Old 04-10-2004, 05:14 PM   #8
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How long did it take us to respond to Pearl Harbor?
Our response by the Military was immediate. They were being attacked. Way to think on your toes Z.
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Old 04-10-2004, 05:18 PM   #9
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
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Originally Posted by AresProphet
Maybe you'd care to link that Zolmaz?

Not that I'm trying to say anything about the accuracy of your claims, but if you
are going to say "look into" something, pull up Goggle and do it yourself. It really
helps make your argument, instead of just portraying you as saying a lot without
really saying anything.
I'm not the designated teacher this week. Some of you will have to
know the facts before you make fools of yourselves.

This one time I will overlook your apparent laziness and post the timeline.
Not that you want the truth, since you refuse to learn on your own.




9 a.m. -- Bush arrives at Sarasota, Fla., school for speech. White House chief of staff Andrew Card tells him a plane has crashed into the World Trade Center.

9:05 a.m. -- Bush is visiting a second-grade class when Card whispers to him that a second plane has struck the towers. President delays plans to address the tragedy, deciding to get more information first.

9:30 a.m. -- Bush meets privately with National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, who briefs him.

9:31 a.m. -- In Sarasota, Fla., President Bush calls crashes an "apparent terrorist attack on our country."

9.57 a.m. -- Aboard Air Force One en route to Louisiana, Bush calls Vice President Dick Cheney and puts America's military on a high alert status. Sifts through reports from staff, including erroneous report that a car bomb had struck the State Department. Gets news that plane has crashed near Pittsburgh.

11:40 a.m. -- Bush arrives at Barksdale Air Force Base, La., where he makes series of telephone calls from a general's conference room. Tells Cheney in telephone call, "It's the faceless coward that attacks." He also talks to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and New York Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y.

1:04 p.m. -- From Barksdale Air Force base in Louisiana, Bush announces U.S. military on high-alert worldwide: "Make no mistake: The United States will hunt down and punish those responsible for these cowardly acts."

1:15 p.m. -- Bush departs conference room for Air Force One in a camouflaged Humvee. Talks to Cheney again en route to Nebraska air force base and schedules a 4 p.m. meeting of his national security staff. Also talks to New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani and Gov. George Pataki. "I know your heart is broken and your city is strained and anything we can do, let me know," Bush says.

3:07 p.m. -- Bush arrives at U.S. Strategic Command at Offutt Air Force Base in Nebraska.

4:36 p.m. -- Bush departs for Washington. En route, he calls first lady Laura Bush and says, "I'm coming home, see you at the White House." Works with aides on his prime-time speech.

7 p.m. -- Bush arrives at White House to prepare for address.

8:30 p.m. -- Bush speaks to nation and vows to "find those responsible and bring them to justice."

8:35 p.m. -- Bush attends national security meeting.

10:21 p.m. -- Meeting has ended. Secret Service radio squawks with news that Bush has gone home to bed: "Trailblazer. Second floor of the residence."


Now, if you ask me for a link you'll again make yourself look like a biased fool.


Have a wonderfull and happy day




God Bless America
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Old 04-10-2004, 05:36 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by bumbleroot
Our response by the Military was immediate. They were
being attacked. Way to think on your toes Z.
The military. At least you have one fact right, but we were defending ourselves
at that time. What was the timeline between declaring war and acting
aggressively against our attackers of Pearl Harbor?

We had no way of knowing 9/11 was going to happen, period. Anything else is
only opinion and conspiracy propaganda.

And don't start spouting off conspiracy theories you've read somewhere in a Liberal
newsletter. May as well believe in UFO's. Oh, I read that one, UFO's spotted
by the towers as they fell, and Bush knew about it. yep.


Here ya go, the liberal 9/11 conspiracy website. Be sure and write your (D) senators
about these facts. Any lie helps during an election their losing.



GOD BLESS AMERICA
GOD BLESS PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH
Zolmaz Zo'Boto (The smartest little gnome in Kentucky)

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Old 04-10-2004, 05:37 PM   #11
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OMG Zolmaz you just gave Bumbleroot ammo. Plane crashes into WTC and Bush probably takes it as just that...a plane crashed.
5 minutes later he was told of the second plane.
Ack, he waited 25 minutes after that to meet with Rice with Bumbleroot not taking into account that there were already people in place doing the necessary things they do when events like this happen.

I was at the Dr's office the day it happened. I walked up to the counter to pay my co-pay and the ladies were talking about 2 planes crashing. My first thought was 2 planes had a mid-air collision. Terrorism never entered my mind.
On my drive back to work, they were on the radio and at that time nobody was sure what had happened.

Do you actually think that they came busting into the classroom with arms waving as Zolmaz stated screaming that terrorist had just crashed into the WTC.
No, I'm sure they did it very diplomatically as they should have.

Do you ever quit?
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Old 04-10-2004, 05:54 PM   #12
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
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Caelie123,
I love you. I'll bet your the bestest mom in the world. *HUGS*


Love is the only conservative feeling that libs don't understand. Heck, Libs
hate each other. Nuff said.





GOD BLESS AMERICA
GOD BLESS OUR AMERICAN TROOPS
Zolmaz Zo'Boto (It's whats real that counts, not wishfull thinking)
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Old 04-10-2004, 06:14 PM   #13
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I don't know if I'm the best mom in the world, but I raised two boys that gave me fits between the age of 15 and 17 and are now very level headed and think things thru before they react. (most of the time)

My youngest now 20 was always bad to come home and tell the story of "so and so did this and now we're all in trouble blah blah blah". I would tell him "before you go laying blame there's always two sides to the story and before you go blaming one person you need to make sure you got the story straight" A few days later, sure enough the truth would come out that there was more than that one little kid involved.

I like Bush. I'm a conservative, but I doubt you can find a post from me where I talked about how bad Clinton or any other President was.
Life is way to short to always be looking behind at where you've been. It's much more productive IMHO to continually look ahead.
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Old 04-10-2004, 06:30 PM   #14
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Ack, he waited 25 minutes after that to meet with Rice
I bet Rice wasn't with him.
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Old 04-10-2004, 06:37 PM   #15
Caelie123
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According to Zolmaz timeline it says he met "privately" with Rice.
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Old 04-10-2004, 06:40 PM   #16
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Yeah it prob took 25 min to fly/drive to her.
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Old 04-10-2004, 06:43 PM   #17
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Or fly/drive her to him. The next line states he is still in Florida. Nevertheless they are moving quickly.
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Old 04-10-2004, 10:06 PM   #18
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I still don't see a link Zolmaz. As in, the little thingy that you click on to open up a new tab in your browser that's on the webpage the URL directs you to. You know, the ones you use all the time except when convenient?

Not only this, but you still failed to address my point, or rather request. You said this:
Originally Posted by Zolmaz
If you look into what
his security adviser(?) told him after the first plane hit, you would
understand why he didn't abruptly leave.
Now, in order for you to make a possibly insightful and informative post, you need two things:

(A) A link to a source telling us what his security advisor told him after the first plane hit.
(B) Your analysis, in light of what was known at the time, as to why he didn't leave.

You replied with something that has very little to do with your statement except for:
Originally Posted by Zolmaz' unknown source
9 a.m. -- Bush arrives at Sarasota, Fla., school for speech. White House chief of staff Andrew Card tells him a plane has crashed into the World Trade Center.

9:05 a.m. -- Bush is visiting a second-grade class when Card whispers to him that a second plane has struck the towers. President delays plans to address the tragedy, deciding to get more information first.
We have nothing that addresses what WHCOS Card said after the first plane hit, and a paraphrase of what he said after the second plane hit.

And you don't defend Bush's decision to remain where he is, instead of, say, immediately meeting with his advisors. What merits do you see in such a decision? you were the one who made the assertion, now back it up.

For fuck's sake, learn how to debate rationally.
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Old 04-10-2004, 11:21 PM   #19
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Poor AresPhrophet,
Wondering around the internet with no clues to find. Certainly one day
AresPhrophet will find a clue if he/she enters the right words into google.

But untill that day, lets keep him/her stupid. Who needs to hold hands
with folks that don't vote.

Clue, Take 9/11, and add Bush, then add fox. And complete it all at the top
of the web page called google. WALA!


See Ares, you choose to be stupid.
God blesses gifted people like you. God bless you Ares.
Your gifted and never even knew it.

Everyone say Hallelujah. Amen.




GOD BLESS AMERICA
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Old 04-11-2004, 07:56 AM   #20
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Zol:

Put up or shut up. Links.
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Old 04-11-2004, 10:38 AM   #21
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nm =o thought you were looking for the timestamps link
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Old 04-12-2004, 06:19 AM   #22
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Referring to Mogge's original post:

If there was warning of 9/11 a month prior to the incident why didn't someone speak up after the first plane hit?
There was warning of "something" a month prior to 9/11, but nothing specific enough to act on. Plane crashes are far more common than terrorist attacks on American soil. It takes a few moments to discern between accidental and intentional.

What I'm getting at is that fact that tower 2 wasn't evacuated. Why? The airlines knew that they had lost more then 1 plane. Our intelligence agencies knew of the possibility of multiple targets(if they are intelligent).
I'm going to guess that the timing just made it difficult. Between trying to decide what exactly happened with the first plane, and trying to forecast a second (not to mention its location), one would have their hands full. While they might have reasonably assumed that there would be a second attack, they might not have guessed that it would be at the same location.

Referring to Zolmaz's timeline...

I would call it a reasonable and timely response.

9:05 a.m. -- Bush is visiting a second-grade class when Card whispers to him that a second plane has struck the towers. President delays plans to address the tragedy, deciding to get more information first.
Getting more information is addressing the problem. You don't just act without some sort of information base. It took 25 minutes for him to gather enough information to decide we'd been attacked. Communication takes time. I can sympathize with that.

Within 26 minutes of being informed of the chain of events, he's already gathered information and formed a decision: we were attacked. Within an hour of being informed, he was physically on a plane and had already given the word to alert the military. Transportation also takes time. I can sympathize with that.

I cannot see a blatant refusal to act, or even laziness on the President's part. He did, in my opinion, what was reasonable and feasible with the information he had available to him.
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Old 04-12-2004, 07:07 AM   #23
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If I recall correctly Air Force planes were on the way to intercept (read: shoot down if needed) the plane that the passengers were able to force down in PA.

I don't have any links to this information. I saw the minute by minute of most of it and I think I remember that being mentioned shortly before they mentioned the plane had crashed. I took my children to school on Sept 11, 01 for pictures at 8:30ish am CST when we got there I heard *something* on the radio but I didn't have time to think about, when I got into the school no one was saying anything about it so I thought I had misunderstood the radio. When I got back out to the car I was in a state of disbelief from what I was hearing this was about 9:10am CST I was driving home when they said the first tower had fallen. I got home ran up to the family room got the TV on in time to see the second tower fall. From there like many Americans I just sat watching in a state of shock.

I am not a fan of Bush but I don't think that once the first plane hit he failed to respond. Hindsight is 20/20. Maybe it *could* have been handled differently but I think they did the best they could with the information they had at hand that day. If they could have done more with the information they had ahead of time...sorry not touching that issue with a 10 foot pole.
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Old 04-12-2004, 07:39 AM   #24
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What was the timeline between declaring war and acting
aggressively against our attackers of Pearl Harbor?
Z- the object is to defend against it happening not to retaliate as quickly as possible. By your logic, we should have let the hijackers do whatever they wanted and then hit them with greater force for having done so. THE OBJECT WAS TO STOP THEM. We had defenses in place in Pearl Harbor, they were outmaneuvered and surprised.
My post is not about declaring retaliation it is about the military not acting once they knew there were 4 planes hijacked.

On June 1st, 2001 the Department of Defense issued an order stripping the military field command of any ability to react to a hijacking. It had to be approved by the sEcretary of Defense thereafter. This made it beaurocratically impossible to react to 9/11.

http://www.e-thepeople.org/article/3...?viewtype=best

Here is a government link showing the exact orders-
http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/a...rcept_proc.pdf
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Old 04-12-2004, 07:42 AM   #25
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OK, let me ask this one thing. Let's say we mobilize the Air Force 2 minutes after the first plane hits the tower. What do they do, SHOOT DOWN A PASSENGER JET because they THINK it might be heading towards the second tower? You Dems love to "Monday Couch Coach" everything that happens.

As for Pearl Harbor, read you history. The private running the "NEW" radar on the north side of Oahu saw the 'blips' but didn't know what to do about it, so he called his Commanding Officer. His Commanding Officer said it was "friendlies" returning from a mission. But again, even if we had mobilized, all we would have been able to do is MAYBE get a few planes in the air, and maybe one ship out of Pearl Harbor.
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