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Old 04-04-2004, 10:09 AM   #1
Chiteng
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Default So the upshot is....

So by the logic being expressed by the Right:

We should not begrudge 'tax-cuts' that blatantly favor people who are rich.
We should understand that the business cycle (apparently nutured by the Right) demands that someone simply has to be unemployed at times.
We should not resent it that it doesnt happen to the elite, because they are special.

We should trust in God apparently, because the right feels no obligation
to provide anything at all, in fact I assume we are supposed to feel
lucky we even HAVE jobs(if we do)

Oh Republican Prezidents are never accountable for anything(forgot that)

We should forgive three years of crushing poverty, simply because
in the last 6 months, it may(and I do mean MAY) get better.

Oh and even tho they distain Keynsian economics, the GOP can put the
Dem to shame when it comes to spending unwisely.

I presume all this means we are supposed to re-elect big brother
for our own good? Even tho he doesnt care about us, and in fact
has no obligation to? Hmmm sounds like a religion to me.
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Old 04-04-2004, 10:33 AM   #2
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What do you think "the rich" do with the money they don't pay in taxes? Chuck it under a mattress?
Why should anyone feel obligated to provide you with anything at all? Go provide for yourself and let everyone else do the same.
Where is this crusing poverty you are talking about? How often do people die of starvation where you live?

Are you just trolling, or what?
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Old 04-04-2004, 10:38 AM   #3
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If their taxes hadnt been pushed through the roof, they wouldnt have needed cut.

If you are unhappy about business practices in the United States, then perhaps you might consider starting one of your own. Why leave your fate in another mans hands?

The rest of your post is just bitterness with nothing of value to respond to. Bush is your boogeyman and must defeated at all cost. Gotcha.
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Old 04-04-2004, 11:14 AM   #4
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Actually I have a better idea. Continue to point out the absurdity of the rights
actions. Elect better people, and stop letting people with money blackmail
the country.

One the they DIDNT do with the tax-cut, is provide jobs. That they did NOT do.
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Old 04-04-2004, 11:50 AM   #5
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So the "rich" are obligated to provide jobs? They must pay (literally) for the sins of success and contribute directly to those less fortunate.

Safety nets are one thing (Social Security, Unemployment Insurance), but what you are implying is the government owes its citizens more. Kennedy would be mortified at such an attitude (Ask not what your country can do for you) and he was a Democrat.

I am sort of hoping Kerry wins just to see how fast you start blaming him for your failures in life.
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Old 04-04-2004, 12:08 PM   #6
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That is just your attempts to denigrate Shardmoon. I have not said anything at all about my 'personal' existance. Nor will I.

Since I have said nothing, I have 'blamed' (your word) no one.

I think there should be a flat tax with no exemptions for ANYTHING.


The Government owes its citizens what THEY tell it, that it owes them.
We live in a Nation of laws. The Majority rules.

I am not a Republican, nor a Democrat. You barbs are meaningless to me.

I will vote for Kerry, if he is the best chance to get rid of Bush.
Not for any other reason.
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Old 04-04-2004, 12:19 PM   #7
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You take on the plight of the little man and spout rhetoric like "crushing poverty" and then say you have not taken a position. You are either kidding us or kidding yourself. You choose.

If its an intellectual discussion you seek, then by all means, start one. Instead you are a shining example of the new activist. You stand for nothing and criticize every thing.

Define yourself before attempting to define others.
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Old 04-04-2004, 12:25 PM   #8
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I think there should be a flat tax with no exemptions for ANYTHING.
GENIUS!

Do you even have a clue how much of a 'tax break' this would be for the rich? Before you start spouting 'fixes' you better check some facts. Even an across the board 25 or 30 percent flat tax would be loved by the rich, 'tax breaks' included now.

Those horror stories of a person making millions and paying very little in taxes because of tax breaks, are usually just that, stories. The few times it does happen, does not mean you can stereotype.

And yeah, actually I agree totally. A flat tax, across the board, simplified taxation, would be the shit. But then, you'd have someone whining that they have 7 kids and need to pay less tax, or only have 1 arm, or whose father was unemployed in 1974 for a few days, so they need a tax break...ad infinitum.

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Old 04-04-2004, 12:35 PM   #9
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I cant believe chiteng posted this post. It shows exactly the mindset of liberals and bush haters. They want everything given to them, they dont want to work hard and get it for their own. They want the government to pamper their asses into a higher income bracket. Go ahead and just move to a nation that wants everyone to be rewarded exactly the same as everyone else who lives there even tho not all will work as hard and some wont work at all. Im sorry but that isnt what the American spirit is or what the founders of our nation had in mind when they formed it. You want it to be better? Work hard and get it for yourself.

Lets just give all our money to the government so they can pick and chose what should be done with it. YAY! Guess we lost the cold war by assimilation.
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Old 04-04-2004, 12:47 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Chiteng
I will vote for Kerry, if he is the best chance to get rid of Bush.
Not for any other reason.
There it is, you said it again! That statement just astounds me! Kerry could be a goat-raping granny-killer and you might vote for him just because he's got to be better than Bush! Know what? He might not be better than Bush. Then what?
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Old 04-04-2004, 12:50 PM   #11
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Chiteng you seem to have a problem with rich people. I am not intimidated by the rich.
I see no logical reason why the Americans in this country that bust their ass should support the poor. That's what you are advocating.
I fail to see why a person that puts his whole life into making something for himself should support or pay more than the person who chooses to do what it takes to get by.
We all have the same opportunity. Some people are born with a silver spoon in their mouth, some people work 80 hours a week building a business and some choose to work their 40 and pickup their paycheck on Friday. When we look back at the end of the day, we could all be a Donald Trump or a Bill Gates if we put our mind to it.
It's nobodys fault but my own that I choose to be middle class. It's nobodys fault but their own if they choose to remain lower class.

Yes thats what makes us a Conservative. We don't blame the Govt for the rich being rich and the poor being poor. We put the blame where it belongs.

Please tell me how the people with money blackmail this country. Is it because they can contribute campaign money?

Contrary to your belief the tax breaks did loosen up the economy and did provide jobs. It may not be the jobs of your choice, but jobs are out there and more and more are opening up every day.

You can vote for whoever you want to. I will vote to re-elect Bush. I'm sure he cares as much about us as Kerry does. I have nothing to forgive Bush for. It's your right to blame the economy on the President in power. I choose not to. Never have and never will. As a Conservative, I don't see where it's the Governments place to put food on my table. That's the difference between me and you.
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Old 04-04-2004, 02:13 PM   #12
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I think there should be a flat tax with no exemptions for ANYTHING

Please don't give any more economic opinions. Your way would be devastating to most of the country, and to the people you claim need help. You obviousely have very little to no economic related formal education, and don't understand the concepts of economics.

It is clear, however, why you are frustrated with current economic policies and rhetoric. Not understanding how things work can be very frustrating. It is this lack of understanding, that places you at the mercy of those in charge, simply because you do not have the means or knowledge to competently engage them or challenge current systems. If you are feeling powerless, as one undoubtedly would, given a cclear lack of understanding. Perhaps more learning in this area would allow you to feel more comfortable or at ease with understanding economic issues.
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Old 04-04-2004, 02:30 PM   #13
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Chiteng just get over it. Your wife is too lazy to find a job, it's her fault plain and simple. We all know that is your motive for all this trash you spew. Stop blaming Bush for the problems in your life that you and those around you have created.
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Old 04-04-2004, 04:10 PM   #14
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I have taken a position Shardmoon. It isnt a secret.

Get rid of Bush, is my position.
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Old 04-04-2004, 04:12 PM   #15
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I cant believe chiteng posted this post. It shows exactly the mindset of liberals and bush haters. They want everything given to them, they dont want to work hard and get it for their own. They want the government to pamper their asses into a higher income bracket. Go ahead and just move to a nation that wants everyone to be rewarded exactly the same as everyone else who lives there even tho not all will work as hard and some wont work at all. Im sorry but that isnt what the American spirit is or what the founders of our nation had in mind when they formed it. You want it to be better? Work hard and get it for yourself.

*******************************************************
I can only wonder what the hell you are talking about Kannibal.
Show me where I asked for something. By all means.
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Old 04-04-2004, 04:14 PM   #16
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There it is, you said it again! That statement just astounds me! Kerry could be a goat-raping granny-killer and you might vote for him just because he's got to be better than Bush! Know what? He might not be better than Bush. Then what?
*************************************************
Then we deal with him, in our own time.
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Old 04-04-2004, 04:18 PM   #17
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Please tell me how the people with money blackmail this country. Is it because they can contribute campaign money?


********************************************************
When a company decides to move, because it claims the Union is asking for too much. That is an example.

Big Money companies make the politicians VERY aware, that they can easily
move, and impoverish anyone dependant on them, if the climate isnt what
they want to see. They do it al the time. Politicians routinely cave in.
That is blackmail Caelie.

You do what we want, or your constiuents are gonna be unemployed.
That is the message.
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Old 04-04-2004, 04:23 PM   #18
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Please don't give any more economic opinions. Your way would be devastating to most of the country, and to the people you claim need help. You obviousely have very little to no economic related formal education, and don't understand the concepts of economics.

It is clear, however, why you are frustrated with current economic policies and rhetoric. Not understanding how things work can be very frustrating. It is this lack of understanding, that places you at the mercy of those in charge, simply because you do not have the means or knowledge to competently engage them or challenge current systems. If you are feeling powerless, as one undoubtedly would, given a cclear lack of understanding. Perhaps more learning in this area would allow you to feel more comfortable or at ease with understanding economic issues.
**************************************************
Then let the country be devasted. You see I am an idealist.
I want income tax GONE. It wasnt part of the original Constitution.

When you are through flattering yourself, and denigrating me =)
I say such things because I truely believe is FAIRNESS.
An outmoded concept, to be sure.

But I DONT believe in the erosion of Tort, and abuse of power, indirect murder, putative blackmail, nor elitism.

Anything else?
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Old 04-04-2004, 04:24 PM   #19
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My wife is currently employed Tuan. Try again =)
I will say whatever I want =)
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Old 04-04-2004, 05:47 PM   #20
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6 fucking posts in a row...
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Old 04-04-2004, 05:56 PM   #21
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Preceded by 6 flames in a row. Your point?
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Old 04-04-2004, 06:48 PM   #22
kanibaal
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Maybe you should take the hint Chiteng. 6 flames and no support yet...

The economy is on an up swing and people like you are going to have to find other things to attack bush with.
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Old 04-04-2004, 07:10 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Chiteng
When a company decides to move, because it claims the Union is asking for too much. That is an example.
There again is where we're different. I am not a advocate of unions. I believe pay and promotion should be based on merit and not because you have some legal council go to bat for you every time you feel the need to gouge the Company for more money.
I don't blame Corporations for moving overseas because their union employees lay down the rules in a company that somebody else busted their ass to build.
If I built a company from the ground up and a bunch of sniffling whining union employees kept the place in turmoil all the time I'd probably do the same thing. It would be my company, I would run the show and if moving my business overseas was the answer to me making a profit, oh well so be it.
For example, UPS workers make good money. They went on strike a few years ago and it effected business's all around the world.
IMHO, it's sad that union workers have the power to effect so many businesses when they go on strike.

It's a double edged sword Chiteng. I'm all for America first, but the door swings both ways. Employees need to think about America first as well and quit stopping production every few years so they can call the shots when they decide it's time for more money. Why can't they do like everyone else and just ask for a review and a raise.
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Old 04-04-2004, 09:26 PM   #24
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My wife is currently employed Tuan.
Haha I see how it is. Last week your wife was unemployed so you could give a sob story about how she has been unemployed for two years because of Bush. And now all the sudden she has a job because it's convienent to say so!

Lies, lies, and more lies.

I will vote for Bush just to spite you!
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Old 04-04-2004, 09:36 PM   #25
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He meant she was unemployed in that other reality. In this one she has been reduced to working.
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