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Old 04-02-2004, 06:41 PM   #26
Maximus Faticus
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Yeah that was pretty cool Flub hehe
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Old 04-03-2004, 04:03 PM   #27
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You'll just love the spin in this story.



"First, the unemployment rate in March actually increased to 5.7 percent and the number of unemployed Americans rose to 8.4 million because 200,000 job seekers re-entered the job market.



"And second, a simple comparison with the Clinton Administration demonstrates the current Administration's continued abysmal economic performance. Over its eight years, the Clinton Administration presided over an economy that created 22 million jobs in eight years, an average job gain of 229,000 every single month. During the last three and one-half years, the economy has lost more than 2 million jobs.

Source: Office of the Democratic Whip
Democratic whip. Them silly dems. This isn't even worth commenting on
since it's all bullshit accept for one fact. And one fact does not make
a whole commentary true.


Notice in the story at the begining she says 308.000 jobs created. then near the bottom
reduced it to 200.000 jobs. Then posted clinton's (Fictional) numbers
at 229,000 to spin the clintons into glory.

Now remember when I said there wasn't 10million workers unemployed?
Happy reading. They missed april fools by one day.




God Bless America
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Old 04-05-2004, 02:49 AM   #28
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The march numbers are overstated (just as the Februarys were understated), boosted as it was by "weather related" factors and returning strikers. A reasonable trend though, and might kick the fed into raising repo rates (futures market now prices in a 50-75 bp rise by year end)

Last edited by Sakkath; 04-05-2004 at 03:55 AM.
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Old 04-05-2004, 04:48 AM   #29
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Gotta love comparing Bush and Clinton, especially since Clinton didn't have to deal with the World Trade Center's destruction.
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Old 04-05-2004, 04:51 AM   #30
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Jesus H. Christ in a chicken basket. Everything is 9/11's fault now? No. Bush has had 3 years to make a substantial change, something I haven't yet seen.

We aren't living in some post-apolcalyptic Mad Max world, Wildane. The economy took a hit from the towers' collapse but it easily could recover; it wasn't a fatal blow, or even mildly crippling.

Your arguments would have held water if the comparisons were being made in April of 2002, but this far down the road the aftereffects of 9/11 on the economy are all but vanished.
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Old 04-05-2004, 04:51 AM   #31
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I doubt that Clinton would have 80K+ targets sitting in Iraq, had he been
Prez at 9/11.

But then again, you still think we are winning. What exactly are we winning again?

So far it seems that we 'might' be killing more of them, than we lose of 'us'
So far.
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Old 04-05-2004, 05:59 AM   #32
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We aren't living in some post-apolcalyptic Mad Max world, Wildane. The economy took a hit from the towers' collapse but it easily could recover; it wasn't a fatal blow, or even mildly crippling.
Mildly crippling? Dude, put down the crack pipe and step away. One of the most important places for economic trade world-wide is destroyed, we've been in a war overseas ever since and everything's supposed to be peaches and cream in 3 years? Goddamn I wish I lived in your world. And just think, someone accused ME of living in an idealistic dreamworld not long ago. Of course, jobs being created all over the place and having maintained an unemployment rate that is ABOVE the average of the last 30 years means squat, right?

Face it, Bush could cure fucking cancer and some of you still wouldn't give him a break. And you know what? I'm not even saying he deserves one. I don't think he's the best President we've ever had, but my opinion is not solely party-based. He's had more to deal with than a lot of them, but you people aren't willing to take that into account. You seem to like analogies, Ares, so here's one I gave Chiteng. Say driving the economy is like pushing a car. Now, pushing a car isn't all that difficult if you have a level road. But, if that car is already rolling downhill, then it is infinitely more difficult just to get it stopped, nevermind get it going back uphill. It's possible, but it's not a quick process.

Do I think everything is 9/11's fault? No, but I think you have to be a serious fucking retard to think that the destruction of the WTC was only a minor hiccup in our economy.
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Old 04-05-2004, 06:09 AM   #33
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We aren't living in some post-apolcalyptic Mad Max world, Wildane. The economy took a hit from the towers' collapse but it easily could recover; it wasn't a fatal blow, or even mildly crippling.
You are smoking some great shit man. If you think the 9/11 tragedy wasn't a critical blow to the economy you are an absolute moron. Pile that on top of Clinton's Dot com bubble explosion and you have one nasty ass depression waiting to happen. The good thing here is that Bush was able to head it off before it could become a full blown recession.
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Old 04-05-2004, 06:14 AM   #34
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Yeah I am sure the Gateway computer sales people are overjoyed at the booming economy. 2500+ were just layed off.

But the economy is booming?
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Old 04-05-2004, 06:21 AM   #35
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Mildly crippling? Dude, put down the crack pipe and step away. One of the most important places for economic trade world-wide is destroyed, we've been in a war overseas ever since and everything's supposed to be peaches and cream in 3 years?
One could argue that the "war overseas ever since" was a grave mistake, not caused by 9/11, but caused by Bush's mishandling of it. That war was not inevitable; we could not "do no other". In fact, this is the crux of my argument. Instead of taking care of the economy back home and getting things back to order, we're dicking around in none of our fucking business. Call it cruel or callous, but you are the one trying to exonerate Bush from any wrongdoing by pointing out his foreign policy blunders. If your Iraq war is so god damned charitable and altruistic, why are you concerned at all with the economy?

Your analogy doesn't quite work, by the way. You are saying that the collapse of the towers irrevocably changed the economic landscape. By the way, I would like to see some numbers and estimates of financial damage caused by the collapse, and to what areas. I really am not too sure how big a setback the economy took.

I imagine I would have heard it a zillion times over if it was a staggeringly colossal blow, so I will assume it was large, and significantly so, but not on a 1929 scale of damage. It would then be reasonable to assume that at least some of the damage would be fixed by now, to the point where we no longer are feeling the effects.

I'm too exhausted to figure out a working analogy along yor lines for it, but I'll go with math. Let's say you have a simple graph of a linear system. Now, there are two changes you can make: absolute change to the location of the line, and change to the slope. Without stooping into actual numbers this might be tricky, so hold on.

If we have a certain point on this graph, the end of a line segment that more or less follows our linear system, we can call this the economy. Now, the towers collapse; what happens? An instantaneous drop in the location, sure, due to the damage done, and probably a decrease in the slope of the line too. The goal should be to get that slope back up to it's old levels. You can't just bump up the position of the economy, so you have to do this by changing the slope.

My argument is that, by now, any effects on the slope of the line should have been nullified, and it is possible for us to have reached pre-9/11 rates. We have not. We could still be worse off and actually have an improved economy, if it were growing fast enough, but the growth hadn't counteracted the loss taken from 9/11. I don't think we've done either, frankly, but the only thing that matters is that we aren't moving along at the same speed.

This makes about as much sense as a Misty post, but I'm too damn tired to care. This forced insomnia crap is beginning to suck.
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Old 04-05-2004, 06:56 AM   #36
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Yeah I am sure the Gateway computer sales people are overjoyed at the booming economy. 2500+ were just layed off.
Gateway has no one to blame but themselves. Gateway computers sucked 99 flavors of ass. They were impossible to work on, their support sucked, upgrades = talk to a salesperson so we can sell you a brand new machine. Talking to tech support was as much fun as being castrated, and if you got someone who actually knew what the hell they were doing you usually couldn't understand them because they didn't speak English.

Not to mention that their prices were less than stellar, and quite often you overpayed by as much as 30% simply to have the name Gateway on a sub par box.

I've worked in the computer industry for 16 years. I have two mottos that I live by: #1. I don't work on Sundays #2. I don't work on Gateways. Gateway deserved what they got.

Last edited by Trith; 04-05-2004 at 07:29 AM.
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Old 04-05-2004, 07:06 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Chiteng
Yeah I am sure the Gateway computer sales people are overjoyed at the booming economy. 2500+ were just layed off.

But the economy is booming?

Gateway had a seriously bad marketing idea that was a huge drag on their cash flow and they finally realised it wasnt working so they closed their retail operations. It has nothing to do with the economy it is their business model. Take a look at the other computer makers, are they seriously struggling ? Didnt think so. As a matter of fact in 2003:

The big resurgence in capital spending lifted tech companies sharply, as corporations began investing again in information technology. Earnings for the computer industry soared 210%. Apple Computer Inc. (AAPL ) recorded the largest increase for the group, a 552% jump in annual profits to $137 million, thanks to strong sales of its computers and the iPod. IBM's (IBM ) yearly profit increased 43%, to $7.6 billion, on the strength of consulting services and software sales. And hardware sales accelerated sharply in the fourth quarter. IBM Chief Financial Officer John. R. Joyce recently told investors that "2004 is the year when the IT industry will begin its next growth cycle."

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...8/b3871084.htm


But you want to say that is reflective of the economy. At least have the decency to use some examples that are remotely relevant and try to be at least a little credible.
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Old 04-05-2004, 08:06 AM   #38
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The failed plan of Gateway 2000 is all Bush's fault. I didnt win the lottery yesterday either, I blame Bush for that. WHAT A BASTARDO!
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Old 04-05-2004, 08:09 AM   #39
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We aren't living in some post-apolcalyptic Mad Max world, Wildane. The economy took a hit from the towers' collapse but it easily could recover; it wasn't a fatal blow, or even mildly crippling.
What a piece of work you are. All gung ho to scrutinize and blame the president on a daily basis for his actions 8 months before before 9/11 then blame him some more becuase he didnt send enough troops or use enough resources to get OBL. You then totally contradict yourself by saying 9/11 was just a small OOPS that happened 2 years ago and its nothing to be making a big fuss over.

Like as if the crippling of the travel industry, the cost of extra security had no affect on the US economy. Did we forget the pentagon was also attacked? Ever hear of the pentagon? to you its just some tourist stop in washington dc but to people who who werent raised like a veal it was the core military HQ of the nation. Lets also not forget that arguably the most important city in the world, New York City was damaged via security, air quality is still dangerously bad (thanks christie whitman for the warning 2 years late you cunt) and the loss of major business which the city still is nowhere near recovering what it was today. Then pile that on top all the shitty policy from the Clinton years and you got the makings of a major recession.

GG there Ares.

PS
Whomever mentioned Gateway as a great company , you are a fucking idiot, Gateway PCs were/is a piece of shit., the Packard Bell of the new millenium......well next to Compaq.
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Old 04-05-2004, 08:25 AM   #40
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One of the most important places for economic trade world-wide is destroyed, we've been in a war overseas ever since
9/11 was a small blip on the financial markets radar. The destruction of the WTC has had virtually no direct impact whatsoever to world-wide trade.

The current downsides of the US economy are virtually nothing directly to do with 9/11 and much more related to the size of the deficit, tax cuts, dot.com crash, normal economic cycles and unemployment.

Last edited by Sakkath; 04-05-2004 at 08:32 AM.
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Old 04-05-2004, 08:31 AM   #41
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The destruction of the WTC has had virtually no direct impact whatsoever to world-wide trade.
Ignorance..thy name is Sakkath. Explain then if you will why the European indexes all went in the shitter they day after 9/11..and why Tokyo went into a near panic trying to hold off the crash of the yen on 9/12...

yeah...nothing to do with global markets at all..

small blip...

lol.
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Old 04-05-2004, 08:56 AM   #42
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The actual physical loss of the buildings did nothing to hurt the economy but the paranoia and panic it sent thru the people was a massive hit on it. It is great to see us recovering because the day it happened I was worried. 9 11 hurt us, if you disagree you are foolish.
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Old 04-05-2004, 10:08 AM   #43
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I'm not at all disagreeing there was damage, and on a massive scale. What I am saying is that there has been enough time for recovery that any current economic woes cannot be pinned solely on 9/11 to absolve Bush of blame.

Quit constructing your straw men.
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Old 04-05-2004, 10:10 AM   #44
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According to everything I've read, the eco downturn started at the end of Clinton's term, not with Bush. I'm not a Bush fan.
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Old 04-05-2004, 10:17 AM   #45
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Also the economy doesnt flip flop in a matter of months unless something tragic happens. It usually takes years before you see the true progress of the whole economy. I heard someone say it can take up to 8 years before you see the real effects.

24 hour news loops have people so paranoid and scared to spend money it is pathetic. That is why I dont watch them anymore and just do my job and live life as usual.
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Old 04-05-2004, 10:45 AM   #46
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Ahh now Kanibal is quoting Rush Limbaugh. Figures.
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Old 04-05-2004, 10:51 AM   #47
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Which doesn't discredit the fact that he's exactly right Chiteng. You may not like Rush..and he's not always right..but he is in fact right about quite a few things...and his assesment of the media is spot on, which is why they hate him so much.
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Old 04-05-2004, 10:57 AM   #48
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Rush Limbaugh *is* media. The man is in business purely because he entertains degenerate reactionaries and infuriates leftists- not because he has original ideas and certainly not because he's an expert on comparative media dynamics.

What's truly funny though is you folks on the right adhering to this delayed impact nature of economics, but if the economy improves now it's attributed directly to the policies of the Bush administration. Riiiiight

E-Marr spin-masters in full effect....
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Old 04-05-2004, 11:08 AM   #49
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Yes it is right...8 years of Reagan, to provide incredible growth and wealth during the Clinton years and 8 years of Clinton to fuck it all to hell and back.
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Old 04-05-2004, 11:13 AM   #50
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Hormadrune:
"What's truly funny though is you folks on the right adhering to this delayed impact nature of economics, but if the economy improves now it's attributed directly to the policies of the Bush administration. Riiiiight "

If the economy improves now, it's because Bush's policies and his hard effort are returning rewards much quicker than Reagan's did. Of course, Carter fooked things up worse than Clinton, so of course it took Reagan a bit longer. Clinton actually had some good things he did, but I don't think NAFTA is one of them!!!
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