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Old 04-01-2004, 05:12 AM   #76
Caelie123
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Great idea Kerryn, we should just walk into Fallujah and offer them cookies and split pea soup. After that maybe our officials could sit down and have a cup of tea with these people that hate the US so much and would like nothing more than to see the head of every American Soldier and Civilian on a platter.

You propose to try and talk peace to them for how long? These people don't understand peace. I'm not talking about the majority of the Iraqi's. I'm not talking about the majority of Iraq. I'm talking about this one little town where most of the trouble comes from. You keep talking about innocent people there. I am willing to bet you 95% of that town condones the behavior of the insurgents and terrorists. The shopkeepers, the local merchants in that town all say the same thing. Death to Americans. Please explain to me where you get the idea that the people in that town are innocent.
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Old 04-01-2004, 05:54 AM   #77
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..just bomb the city, who cares about the 5% of inocent people.. just iraqis.

how sad.

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Old 04-01-2004, 05:55 AM   #78
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Give me some sort of proof that 95% of that town advocates the killing of Americans and I'll hold my hands up and say, "Go kill that 95%"

What you're talking about is killing the 5% you suspect might be innocent, hence you are a monster.

But the fact remains that you don't care about proof do you. You just want to kill them anyway.
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Old 04-01-2004, 06:10 AM   #79
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It's always been the case that certain people in this forum have over-glorified war and the way it which it is waged.
Yet, you would have us make background checks on people before we take any action? I don't advocate nuking an entire town, either, but let's try to live in reality, k?
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Old 04-01-2004, 06:28 AM   #80
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I don't expect background checks on everyone in the town. It isn't required since many of them are children. It's difficult and this is what people don't understand. I'm not offering any alternatives because we can only continue doing what we have in the past. It's not 100% effective but it's better then killing innocent people and becoming a monster.

It's easy to say that 95% support terrorism on allied forces and citizens, but I bet you that half the people on this board advocating nuking this town don't even know what the indingent population is, let alone how many of them are children, or terrorists.

What if I told you that 95% were terrorists and there's a population of 1000?

Reality is that killing those 50 innocent people is being a monster. I wonder if Caelie would like to press the button knowing that she's going to kill 50 innocents.

Now lets imagine that 90% are terrorists and thats 100 innocents to kill. In reality I think you'll find that only 25% or less are innocent. That's pure opinion and certainly not one I'd like to wager on but I think it's nowhere near 95%
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Old 04-01-2004, 07:29 AM   #81
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Well Kerryn, I'm not really a full time monster

I'll be honest with you though. Seems like anytime something outside the norm of war casualties happens, it's in Fallajah. Every article I read talks about this town being the town of resistance. This is where all the cheering takes place, this is a town where many hated Saddam but wish he was back in power.

Yes, it's true that I'm pretty pissed right now. Pisses me off even more when I see a picture on Fox of a boy that looks to be about 13 cheering.
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Old 04-01-2004, 07:39 AM   #82
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we have tapes and pictures, lets start with those mother fuckers holding up the victory sign and chanting death and throwing rocks, that will send the message home, caught on tap, caught in a death trap
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Old 04-01-2004, 08:05 AM   #83
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You all remember that scene from Black Hawk Down, in which a ranger steps into a schoolhouse to avoid enemy fire (finding a teacher and a few children)? He tries to step back out, slips, and the kid (enemy) shoots, I guess his father/brother (enemy). Would you all shoot the kid and finish off the older guy?
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Old 04-01-2004, 08:24 AM   #84
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I'm not really a full time monster
Newsflash for you. Many people loved Saddam Hussein. Whilst there's no doubt in my mind he did an awful lot of bad things he also did an awful lot of good things too.

Sadly the amount of good things he did could in no way make up for the atrocities he enacted. But for what it's worth Im sure he too felt that he wasn't a full time monster.

As for the 13 year old boy cheering, you'll find that a number of 13 year old boys will do a lot of things to please their father, and to feel like a man, especially when they are raised to believe that the western world is bad. That does not mean to say that they understand what it means, nor that they would support terrorism if they felt they had a choice.

I'm not excusing it, and I think they need a swift re-education. But bombs don't educate people and they don't stop terrorism. They just kill people, and 50 miles away in another village Iraqi's will truthfully tell their sons that those blasted infidels killed hundreds of people and they in turn will grow to hate America.
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Old 04-01-2004, 09:24 AM   #85
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Kerryn, you really need to decide if we are at war, or not. I would like to see
you make an explicit statement.

Because IF you ARE at war, you kill the enemy. That is what war is all about.
It is sad that innocents suffer, indeed it is. But it is also WAR.

Basic human nature, you take a swing at me, I swing back. That is what we call human.

Now if you want to claim we are NOT at war, I will be happy to see you make that case. Hell I might even agree with you.

But if we are at war, war doesnt follow the rules YOU are trying to assert.

I dont like Bush, I dont think we should be in Iraq, I dont give a damn
if the Middle east vanished. But we ARE in Iraq, all we can do is try to get
that idiot OUT of office, and remove the troops.

Until then, we must support the men he has placed in harms way.
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Old 04-01-2004, 09:28 AM   #86
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http://www.homestead.com/prosites-pr...res033104.html

Check out that page. During war, we DONT follow Justice Blackwell's
adage 'it is better to let 10 guilty walk, then convict 1 innocent'

That isnt how it works. The purpose in war is to win. Any way you can.
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Old 04-01-2004, 09:32 AM   #87
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Quichon,

I am a wargammer first last and always. I play RPG because its fun (at times)

I have studied war, for 35? years *gag*

'How to make war' Dunnigan, James 4th edition. This man is my idol.
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Old 04-01-2004, 09:38 AM   #88
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didnt GW say that the war ist over ?

...or did i miss something ?
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Old 04-01-2004, 09:41 AM   #89
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Tell it to the four contractors, Lallek.
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Old 04-01-2004, 10:24 AM   #90
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When GW said the war was over, he means Saddams regime is over, toppled and done with. Our fight with the Iraqi army is over.

Now, we are fighting with insurgents. Saddam loyalist I think they call them. They are not a military so technically we are not at war with the country.

What we are seeing now is like your local police fighting with violent protesters only on a much broader scale.
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Old 04-01-2004, 06:26 PM   #91
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I don't think he said the war was over, but the major hostilities were over.
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Old 04-01-2004, 07:59 PM   #92
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Also something to think about.

How would we react if this was happening in a American city?
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Old 04-02-2004, 12:50 AM   #93
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Caelie, your analysis is brilliant. We need more military geniuses like you; perhaps you and Condy Rice can do the 40-something woman thing in the White House, if you can handle being near a black woman, that is.
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