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Old 03-31-2004, 02:22 PM   #51
Flub Man
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But the PEOPLE want us in......
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Old 03-31-2004, 02:36 PM   #52
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The UN had their HQ in Iraq blown up...they are afraid and are ill-prepared to tackle the situation...talk about politicizing the whole operation! You think the US is soft, try putting the UN in there and see how soft things get.
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Old 03-31-2004, 02:40 PM   #53
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There's not a whole lot to substantiate the statement that the people want us there. If they did, there would be no problem with the small minority that makes up the insurgency. I think it's more likely that the people will "support" whoever they fear the most.
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Old 03-31-2004, 02:43 PM   #54
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Wrong. I mentioned the Sioux because the previous poster had an illusion that
the Inuted States doesnt do bad things. Yes we do.
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Old 03-31-2004, 02:44 PM   #55
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Why do you think that Vir? After all if the majority of Iraqis wanted us gone wouldn't there be allot more bloodshed? After all they do outnumber us.

Why do you think we never see any of the good that people of Iraq do for out troops? Are we to believe that it does not happen? Why not start off the news with showing the good things that are happening?
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Old 03-31-2004, 02:49 PM   #56
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And we do good things to. Be it Bush's intention to do good or bad there in Iraq, I believe most of the people behind this endeavor are doing it with good intentions. Being paid back by some Iraqi's for giving them freedom and removing a brutal dictator wasn't enough I guess.

We should have gone in and treated the country as a conquered foe, not a long lost brother we just freed from his captor.

Eject the problem clerics from the country.
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Old 03-31-2004, 04:41 PM   #57
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I suppose if US force had been timely enough to seal the town it could hypothetically demand delivery of the mob that killed, mutilated and hung the dead folks to the cry of its own cheers. Failing a deadline, say 36 hours, troops proceed and level the entire area. Delivering the measure serves as a horrible warning: live and leave us alone, give up the killers, their sons and daughters, nephews, nieces yadda yadda ...or you all perish together.

The number of times required to repeat such a direct measure throughout the holy land (brrr) does not bear pleasant contemplation, that's what overly religious extremist thinking imagines.

The real course is playing the stern revenge card, how not to be primitive and barbaric but decisive and calculating. Decisive means to me you realise you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. Deploy an incidents and hotspot Fast Response taskforce, back'em up with troops, then follow through the salient forensic Intel with brute force as per direct measures in para. 1.

Eventually, folks will have to choose between hostility and the survival of the rest of their society. If they can't, the rest of the world don't need them anyway.
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Old 03-31-2004, 05:13 PM   #58
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Why we are contracting out work to civilians in a warzone is beyond me. Its reckless and only weakens our position militarily.
Shardmoon I am going to make a few assumptions here, but ones that to me make sense.

This occurred in Fallujah a hot bed of rebellion against the US. Civilian contractors working on restoring the infrastructure in Iraq are heavily protected. They don't wander around to go shopping in the local bazaar. I do not see that this would be a group of people on a mission to restore a mobile phone tower or something. Those people go under HEAVY escort when they are out of a secure area.

I am going to assume that the civilians were one of the following:

CIA

DIA

Contracted intelligence/security.

The above group of civilians know the risks they take, and take those risks to ensure the safety of both the military and the general US population as a whole.

As far as contractors in general in Iraq go, who else can do that job? Civil engineering? Army Corp of Engineer? The way things are structured with the military I believe the current organization is the only way restructuring can be done in a timely fashion.

Note: I am disgusted at what happened. It is barbarism at it's finest
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Old 03-31-2004, 05:32 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Caelie123
Forget the fact that it would be thousand of innocent civilians (animals) that are in Fallahoopla cheering this crap on. Pfft....it's a good thing I'm not in charge. That whole damn town would be leveled by now. Every fricking man, woman and child. Then I could follow it up with "OOPS, hang that shit from your bridge".
Don't be to sure about that. Something will be done, and it better make
a huge impact.

Saddam ruled iraq by not sparing anybody. All they understand is brutality,
so lets give them some. Send in the Marines with new orders!



GOD BLESS AMERICA
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Old 03-31-2004, 06:36 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Shardmoon
We do not punish the neighbors of the guilty.
Call them innocent neighbors if you like. Those innocent neighbors are the ones hiding out and protecting the insurgents. Those innocent neighbors (men, women and children) are the ones cheering when their buddies blow up U.S. and coalition civilians and soldiers alike. Those innocent neighbors are dragging dead bodies and hanging them from bridges. Sounds like the assholes are just as guilty as the one that pulled the trigger if you ask me.

KABOOM! Wonder if we have any atom bombs in storage somewhere?
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Old 03-31-2004, 06:44 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Flubman
Why do you think we never see any of the good that people of Iraq do for out troops? Are we to believe that it does not happen? Why not start off the news with showing the good things that are happening?
Simple answer Flubman, it's an election year, most of the media is liberal and they would loose their base of watchers if they showed any form of good. Liberals don't want to see, nor do they care about any good coming from us being in Iraq.
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Old 03-31-2004, 07:12 PM   #62
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Any type of heavyhanded ultra violent response will only reinforce in them that their opinion of the US is correct.
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Old 03-31-2004, 07:22 PM   #63
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I don't think they'll ever change that opinion

We're trying to feed them, revive and better the eletricity they had before, improve the conditions they had before, and they are biting our hand and spitting at our faces.

Pretty much like a father-child thing, and usually the father disciplines them when they children are brats.
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Old 03-31-2004, 07:25 PM   #64
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Don't be fucking idiots. ShardmoonVer is the only one out of all of you that hasn't dropped to their level.

Most of you are advocating killing a whole town. That's not much different then Saddam gassing the Kurds.
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Old 03-31-2004, 07:48 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Martigan
I'm hoping he won't do the same thing a previous president did.
If Bush backs out of Iraq now, it will be another Bay of Pigs.

Chiteng, I can't believe I am saying this, but I actually agree with you on most (if not all) of what you have said during this post. America shouldn't be blamed for extremists actions. They have been doing that stuff to themselves for hundreds of years without us being there. They are just using us as an excuse to continue doing it to each other. All this has been going on ever since Mohammad died leaving seven daughters and not a single son. Ever since then, there has been nonstop fighting between the seven different factions, and will continue to be fighting between them until there is only one left.

I have been hearing so much pissing and moaning about how many casualties we have had. I can not believe I am hearing such utter nonsense. Take a look at the casualties of WW I, WW II, Korea, Vietnam. Look at the casualties we have now.

War is hell. War is a last resort for when a war would be preferable to the current conditions. War should not be undertaken until all other means have been attempted and are futile. Having entered in a war, we need to see it through to the end. Vietnam taught us that. Either sh*t or get off the pot. Now that we have a war, we need to see it to it's conclusion. If we back out now we will loose all creditability that we have now (which isn't a whole lot) and will just encourage this sort of thing to happen more often. I forsee Spain having major terrorist problems because the terrorist strike on them made them capitulate. It worked, it was rewarded with positive behavior change, it encourages them to do it again. If a puppy piddles on the carpet, you don't give it a treat, you rub it's nose in it and make certain the puppy knows this is unacceptable behavior.

Chiteng, You had better be careful. You admitted that you have read both On War and Art of War. Next thing we know, you might be admitting to have read Book of the Five Rings. Heck, you keep looking like you actually read and furthermore keep looking like you actually know what you're talking about for once and your status of board troll and waste of space may be in jeapordy.
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Old 03-31-2004, 07:50 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Caelie123
Simple answer Flubman, it's an election year, most of the media is liberal and they would loose their base of watchers if they showed any form of good. Liberals don't want to see, nor do they care about any good coming from us being in Iraq.
I couldn't have put it better myself.
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Old 03-31-2004, 10:19 PM   #67
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i wish we would just waste any fucker cheering at the death of random people simply because they come from another nation.

i would love to put a bullet in each of their legs so that they may feel pain of being hurt, but live to remember it.

then again WE are the brutal american devils and they are inoccent peace love people that we have been pushing around
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Old 04-01-2004, 01:07 AM   #68
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Old 04-01-2004, 01:09 AM   #69
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Maximus Faticus got the point.

and, btw you should check out the history of the city. there was never really war and the local cleric´s and clans talked to the US-militarys not to enter the town .. there was no hatered against the US.
but then the US broke the word not to enter the city... they took the local school as headquarter.
the clans said that there is no need to plant a headquarter in the city.. they could come with convoys in the city and the local clans will help to find saddam´s soldiers. after the US bombed the church .. and killed some people the iraqis start making demonstrations against the US.
finally they searched houses at night and just broke some of the highest islamic laws.

it was a report at the german TV.

this was btw a report of Antonia Rados:
http://www.emjournal.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ap03018.html

http://www.cbc.ca/passionateeyemonda...re_190404.html

greetings
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Old 04-01-2004, 01:21 AM   #70
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OK, WTF is up with all the SADDAM's in this room? Why in Gods earth are we going to LEVEL a whole town because the local resistence to the ocupation fought back? I hate what happened to my fellow troops and civilians (yes there were troops in there), but to LEVEL A WHOLE town? THats just what Saddam would have done, or Hitler, Stalin comes to mind too, and I know we are way better than that.

My opinion.....Step up the intelegence gathering, get in there get the info and punish whoever is responsible...THATS the American way,

And thats the kinda stuff we came here to stop in the first place, the evil dictator...I mean to find the WMD....I mean to stop the terrorists camps.... Dam I'm all confused now, dont even know why the fuck I'm here anymore, a war without a clue.
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Old 04-01-2004, 02:18 AM   #71
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/cheer Ramesses

To paraphrase nietzsche; one must be careful when fighting monsters, to see that they do not become a monster themselves...
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Old 04-01-2004, 03:25 AM   #72
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I've put up another post regarding this subject because I'm very interested in seeing some people's ideas.

It's always been the case that certain people in this forum have over-glorified war and the way it which it is waged.

These people would have you believe you just bomb the country into submission and the enemy just puts their guns down and surrenders. This is not the case, but an ideal put forward by people who have never seen action, never had to pull a dead comrades lifeless body back to a camp, never had to see a child dead by a roadside, victim of some misfired round, or explosive blast.

These people learnt all they know about war from the movies, where until very recently it's been clean crisp uniforms, and coffee and doughnuts before bombing the jerries. Thanks somewhat to films such as Black Hawk Down, Windtalkers, Saving Private Ryan, and We Were Soldiers for going so far in dispelling that myth.

The enemy don't run around wearing specially designed uniforms to mark them apart from the civilians, in fact no Army any allied country has fought in the past 20 years has worn a uniform.

Likewise many Allied forces have sent in troops in plain clothes in an attempt to infiltrate enemy territory. This is why civilians are sometimes targetted. It's unfortunate and it's wrong. I totally agree.

That said, it is not an excuse to tactically nuke an entire town. To kill innocent civilians because certain people killed your innocent civilians.

How many of those civilians were there? You're talking a handful of people and you want to avenge them by killing hundreds? This is why I believe that some of you are the monsters you would willingly overthrow.

It would appear that some of you aren't interested in peace, your safety or in the safety of your fellow coutrymen. You want a war because it gives you something to bullshit about on a slow day.

All you care about is that somebody pays for these atrocities. The sad thing is that you don't even care who is made to pay. Only that someone is.
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Old 04-01-2004, 03:34 AM   #73
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wise words .. Kerryn

.. if fear thats some idiots will never understand the situation.

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Old 04-01-2004, 04:31 AM   #74
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If you recall Kerryn, I advocated simply assassinating SH so much easier
so much cheaper. I also advocated allowing the three factions to fight it out.
Also easy.

Occupying Iraq, is the worst of all worlds. We make it EASIER for the enemy to reach us.

However, it was NOT 'me' that decided to use FORCE. It was the Prez.
He authorized it, it is all on him.

I am simply saying that if you have already made the decision to use force,
then for chist sake USE IT. This candy assed coddling that we do must be very amusing to our enemies.
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Old 04-01-2004, 04:40 AM   #75
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i just find it disgusting that death becomes a public spectical with dancing and cheer, yet i havent seen anyone shielding their children in that country (the children i see in the news)
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