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Old 03-30-2004, 11:00 AM   #26
Trith
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There are no figures at all for Iraqi military casualties, which Iraqi officials kept secret. One factor that led to many civilian deaths, and which complicates the task of counting them accurately, is that irregular fedayeen militia hid in civilian homes as they fought advancing coalition troops, and dressed as civilians.
This was a quote from the CS monitor article. I don't dispute the fact that some Iraqi civilians were killed in the war. However, I don't see how an action and war crime (hiding amonst civilians and wearing civilian attire)committed by a group of Hussein loyalists can be attributed to "coalition caused deaths". Those deaths are on Saddam's hands...not ours.

Another issue is the massive bombing campaign. Yes we dropped a huge amount of ordinance..but at the same time the Iraqi army fired a large amount of AAA and rockets at American planes as well, and there is a distinct possibility that many of those rockets and returning shrapnel shells claimed the lives of Iraqi's as well. I just don't buy this theory that every Iraqi who died in this war was summarily executed by Americans. I still believe that completely American caused deaths would still be in the low thousands at the highest.
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Old 03-30-2004, 11:17 AM   #27
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I'm sorry, why did we invade Iraq again? Oh, yeah, forgot, all those WMDs.
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Old 03-30-2004, 11:34 AM   #28
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Trith unfortunately the only thing that has happened is the Republican smear machine is in high gear.
To call John Kerry anti-soldier is a total lie. He always stood up for the soldiers. He was primarily responsible for recovering the MIA remains from Vietnam. He has consistenly supported veterans and their rights. This is nothing but smear or spreading of innuendo.
And this 50 cent gas tax that Bush speaks of with Kerry... have you even done any homework on this Trith? I will tell you something about that. There never was any such tax voted or proposed by Kerry. Bush is LIEING about this because he knows there are ignorant dumbfucks like you that believe anything he says. Go look it up and do your Democracy proud. So now that you are the TOOL that Bush likes and you once again will prove yourself to be wrong I wonder what its like to be wrong all the time. Do yourself a favor and start spending a little time checking on facts instead of listening to lieing politicians.
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Old 03-30-2004, 11:42 AM   #29
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Bumble do you want to show me anywhere in here where I brought up the 50 cents gas tax, or would you like to just go ahead and apologize now for getting me confused with another poster or another thread because you neglected to read any posts here before you decided to drop in?
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Old 03-30-2004, 11:43 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune
Funny that you describe yourself as pro-war Caelie. I'd think we'd all want to be anti-war, and that war is simply an unfortunate necessity at times.
When talking about the War in Iraq and the War on Terrorism, yep I'm pro-war all the way. I've yet to see where an anti-war person viewed war as an unfortunate necessity at times.

I agree that it would be nice to live in a perfect world where everybody played fair and played by the rules, never a need for war.
Wake up ToTo, we're not in Kansas anymore. Snap out of lala land. There's bad guys out there that will rip your head off without batting an eye. Pro-War to fight these kinds of people. Yep, I think so
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Old 03-30-2004, 12:00 PM   #31
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Bumble do you want to show me anywhere in here where I brought up the 50 cents gas tax, or would you like to just go ahead and apologize now for getting me confused with another poster or another thread because you neglected to read any posts here before you decided to drop in?
Mind showing me where the tax and spend concept is referring to? Bush's insistence on the 50 cent gas tax from Kerry.
I will not apologize to you. You haven't done any homework. You don't have anything to support your assessments of John Kerry, do you? What I said is correct. I should not apologize for being correct. You have no examples of Kerry being tax and spend anymore than anyone else. So don't go out and characterize him only because someone says that is his way, but doesn't have the proof to back it up. Sounds like the old WMD game again by Bush.
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Old 03-30-2004, 12:06 PM   #32
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bumble, in 1994 Kerry did support a 50 cent increase in gas and voted to raise the tax on gas 4.3 cents per gallon. And using his own words and votes is not smearing Kerry.
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Old 03-30-2004, 12:07 PM   #33
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I figured as much. I gave you a chance anyway. I never mentioned anything about the 50 cent gas tax issue. It wasn't even part of this thread. Read before you come slobbering into a post next time please. If you want to make a thread about 50 cents and a gas tax please feel free to do so..the New Thread button is somewhere up that direction /\.

Feel free to misrepresent my other posts as much as like..I've stop caring about it because at least it keeps you consistent.
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Old 03-30-2004, 12:09 PM   #34
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Trith: those deaths were caused- justly or not- by our actions in Iraq. You of course will argue that our actions in Iraq were caused by SH's regime's actions in Iraq and shrug off any civilian casualties as a Not Our Problem situation. It goes to show how inhumane you are I guess that you so nonchalantly dismiss Iraqi deaths.

And I'd love to see some data supporting your claims- put up or shut up if you want to deal in numbers. I did- your turn Einstein.
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Old 03-30-2004, 12:17 PM   #35
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I was using your references to support my claims. If you subtract the deaths which were a direct result of actions taken by the regime in Iraq the numbers would be much lower. In other words..if Saddam herds 500 Iraqi civilians into a military building, and it gets bombed..whose fault is it?

Doesnt matter anyway..if we had left him in place those 500 would have probably found their way into an iraqi prison/torture theatre eventually.
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Old 03-30-2004, 12:18 PM   #36
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I guess we should have left saddam alone to torture, rape and murder his own people. It goes to show how inhumane you are I guess that you so nonchalantly dismiss Iraqi torture and rape vicims. And don't forget the reward money he sent to those 'brave palastinians' who blew up innocent Isrealis whose only crime was going to town.
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Old 03-30-2004, 12:23 PM   #37
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If only Bush had said that he was invading Iraq for 'humanitarian' reasons.
Oddly, that isnt what he said.
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Old 03-30-2004, 12:26 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Chiteng
If only Bush had said that he was invading Iraq for 'humanitarian' reasons.
Oddly, that isnt what he said.
You obviously didn't hear the State of the Union address. Not shocked that you didn't hear him say it.
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Old 03-30-2004, 12:28 PM   #39
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Didn't you know? All Liberals lover Saddam Hussein, Hamas, Al Queda, and the such. They are just exercising their civil liberties!!!!
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Old 03-30-2004, 12:35 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by bumbleroot
And this 50 cent gas tax that Bush speaks of with Kerry... have you even done any homework on this Trith? I will tell you something about that. There never was any such tax voted or proposed by Kerry. Bush is LIEING about this because he knows there are ignorant dumbfucks like you that believe anything he says. Go look it up and do your Democracy proud. So now that you are the TOOL that Bush likes and you once again will prove yourself to be wrong I wonder what its like to be wrong all the time. Do yourself a favor and start spending a little time checking on facts instead of listening to lieing politicians.
Ok looked it up Bumble,

The Kerry camp immediately released a carefully worded statement that said the senator "has never sponsored or voted for a gas-tax increase of that magnitude."
"Sen. Charles Robb introduced legislation in 1993 that phased in a 50-cent increase. John Kerry did not vote for or co-sponsor this bill," according to the e-mail, titled "Misleading America Again."

So Kerrys camp says he never did it but here he goes screwing things up again :

But the Bush-Cheney team responded with a release titled "The Raw Deal," citing a 1994 Boston Globe article in which Mr. Kerry said a rating by a budget watchdog group "doesn't reflect my $43 billion package of cuts or my support for a 50-cent increase in the gas tax."

Omg which is it ? Did he or did he not vote for it? His camp says no he says yes. Now you see why he cant win this race.
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Old 03-30-2004, 12:40 PM   #41
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I dont care about 'ex post facto' statements. I do pay attention to what
he said BEFORE he invaded Iraq.
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Old 03-30-2004, 12:43 PM   #42
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The State of the Union Address was 2 months before the Gulf War. How much BEFORE do you want?
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Old 03-30-2004, 12:46 PM   #43
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NM wrong topic...I'm a retard

Side note: at least I read the thread and realized I posted wrongly..unlike Bumbleroot.
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Old 03-30-2004, 12:46 PM   #44
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And shall we do a word count of the SOTU address? Lets see how many words he devoted to what YOU claim are humanitarian issues, and how many words he devoted to claims about how big a threat SH was.
Is there any doubt at all which will be bigger?
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Old 03-30-2004, 12:47 PM   #45
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I dont have to like Kerry. In fact I dont give a damn about Kerry.
Bush is the issue to ME =)
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Old 03-30-2004, 12:50 PM   #46
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Is there any doubt every single ranking democrat thought exactly the same thing about WMDin Iraq Show me where they opposed Bush's view of the situation. They gave him a vote of confidence to take care of Iraq as he saw fit and only after the fact do they want to say there was never a threat and Bush railroaded us.

But if you like I am sure I can come up with tons and tons of quotes of democrat leaders expressing the "fact" that there was WMD before the war, long before in most cases.
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Old 03-30-2004, 12:53 PM   #47
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Why should I care what any democrat thought?
I am NOT a democrat =)

Telling me that evil2 is just as bad as evil1, doesnt mean a damn to me.

Evil1 is the issue.
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Old 03-30-2004, 01:07 PM   #48
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According to you Bush didn't say anything about humanitarian reasons. So, any word count past one would make you wrong right? Or, let me guess, you would just say that YOU would not classify those reasons as humanitarian, right?
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Old 03-30-2004, 01:09 PM   #49
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So basically you hate Bush because he hasnt handed you and your family a job on a platter ? Is that it ? Or is it only your perception of his caring that needs to be changes so you can become less hateful towards President Bush ?
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Old 03-30-2004, 01:13 PM   #50
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It is YOUR claim that I 'hate' Bush. You wont find any post I have made
where 'I' have said that.

I dont want the man as Prez, that much is certain.
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