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Old 03-26-2004, 05:55 PM   #1
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
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Default Serious questions about the Dems.

Bush is being attacked because after 8-months in office he couldn't prevent 9/11.

Clinton had 8-years, and many terrorist attacks that killed our American soldiers
and civilians throughout his term of office.

Let's see, 8-months over 8-years. Nope, no new math here!


Who was on watch for 8-years? "BILL CLINTON" Thats who.


I have one simple question,
Do you want America to be independant>?




GOD BLESS AMERICA
Zolmaz Zo'Boto (Freedom, gives everybody the right to be brain washed by the leftist media with a socialist agenda)
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Old 03-26-2004, 07:23 PM   #2
Gerick
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zol, i dont post here much but are you blind to what our president does?

all his speechs that i have watched on C span break down like this

3 min praising america
about 5-10 min on current issues
15-20 on this crap

nine eleven nine eleven
terror, terrorist, terrorist
troops troops troops
spreading democracy
god bless america

the reason he gets attacked so much as he brings up 9/11 and everything else just as much as his enemys do, people get enraged by his lies or half truths and they take the bait and bite.
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Old 03-26-2004, 08:43 PM   #3
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
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Originally Posted by Gerick
zol, i dont post here much but are you blind to what our president does?

all his speechs that i have watched on C span break down like this

3 min praising america
about 5-10 min on current issues
15-20 on this crap

nine eleven nine eleven
terror, terrorist, terrorist
troops troops troops
spreading democracy
god bless america

the reason he gets attacked so much as he brings up 9/11 and everything else just as much as his enemys do, people get enraged by his lies or half truths and they take the bait and bite.
I love this response. It's so, "oh" how do I say it, media? Yep, Media.




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Zolmaz Zo'Boto (When people lie, it leads to depression, anxiety, and family disparity)
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Old 03-26-2004, 09:22 PM   #4
Itlum
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I find politics amusing.

When Republicans feel like their candidate and/or elected official is getting bashed, it is, of course, the fault of the Liberal Media.

When Democrats feel like their candidate and/or elected official is getting bashed, it is, of course, the fault of the Conservative Media.

So the media is Liberal AND Conservative! Damn them!

Sometimes I wonder why people fall for the crock of shit known as American politics. Then I realize that the reason talk shows are still around is because people watch the crap, and some believe its true.

I do hope folks can connect the dots....
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Old 03-27-2004, 04:03 AM   #5
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Sometimes I wonder why people fall for the crock of shit known as American politics.
Take your apathy and shove it up your mother's ass.
Whether I agree to some of the people's posts on this board, I have praise for everyone of them because they care about their country and are not pussy enough to express what they feel about it. You on the other hand feel that it is your duty to try to shut people up and keep them from being interested in their country. Go on and keep living your meaningless life asshole.
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Old 03-27-2004, 05:35 AM   #6
Inmountains
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I agree with you Bumb. Look at Itlum, only 5 posts. Also, how much brain power did it take to spell "multi" backwards? How can we 'connect the dots' as you say, when the dots keep moving, they keep appearing and disappearing? American politics is DYNAMIC, if you don't know what that means, stop reading in "Steam Vent", it is WAY over your head.
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Old 03-27-2004, 06:47 AM   #7
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Picking on my name and post count. Incredibly original, bonus points for that one.

"Connecting the dots" was in regards to the following statement:

Sometimes I wonder why people fall for the crock of shit known as American politics. Then I realize that the reason talk shows are still around is because people watch the crap, and some believe its true.
As to taking my apathy and shoving it up my mother's ass, how about you fuck off? Last I checked, America's a free country, and I can say what I want, when I want, short of planning the assassination of a public figure, or the overthrow of the government. I'll thank you to not infringe upon my rights.

Whether or not politics is a crock of shit or not, America's political system is no worse than any other.

I suppose I really must've struck a nerve. You didn't address my statements at all, merely lashed out and began calling me names and swearing. That, friends, is a sign that you have no counter point, and can't think of one. Thanks for participating.
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Old 03-27-2004, 07:11 AM   #8
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I am almost certian they were addressing your statement about American Politics being a crock of shit. The rest of your post was just a drawn out way of saying every one blames the media. It wasnt ground breaking or thought provoking and as you can see, not much of a conversation starter.

Perhaps if you had cited some specific examples it might have drawn more attention than your throw away line about crocks of shit.
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Old 03-27-2004, 07:11 AM   #9
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I do blame alot of what American's think one way or the other on the media. For most people that don't get all wrapped up in politics (like those of us on this board do) that's all they have to gauge things by. The news, the talk radio, the talk shows.

For many Americans if they have a job, food on the table and transportation they could really care less about anything else. Therefore, when they turn on the news and see Bush getting blasted or Kerry getting blasted that is what forms their opinion. It's a proven fact that advertising works. IMHO, the media is a form of advertising.

Prime example is going to be the testimony(s) by Clarke. He is really on the hotseat right now. We know this from the internet and by certain talk shows and what we see on the news. We come here and we debate it, but for those that could really care less, they are only going to go by what's presented to them in the media.

You are a sad American if you actually believe the media doesn't have an impact of the way people view different political situations.
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Old 03-27-2004, 07:15 AM   #10
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You blame the media for reporting the news and informing the public?
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Old 03-27-2004, 07:35 AM   #11
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I blame the media for the way they present it. Depending on what channel you watch it will usually always carry a biased tone for one side of the other.

The original poster said he is sick of America blaming the media. I am just saying I think the media does indeed play a big part in how many Americans view certain political situations. It's one thing to report the news and inform the public. It's another thing to report it with a biased slant which is what usually happens.
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Old 03-27-2004, 08:12 AM   #12
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I think Caelie said it far better than I could have.

The only real way to truly hear what the politicians are saying is to attend every rally, every debate, and read every pamphlet from everywhere you can get one, put all of it together, and meet somewhere in the middle. This would require a lot of travel and a whole lot more time, and that's more than most people can afford. The media seems like a viable solution, until you realize that the media is a business. Like any other business, it will do things based on what brings in more money...it is common sense, after all. They largely don't show good news, because bad news has been shown to bring in more ratings. By the same token, they slant their presentation of political candidates and events to cater toward whichever political affiliation the majority of their viewers subscribe to (that which is proven to bring more ratings), or, in a few cases, whichever political affiliation the owner of the company subscribes to. FOX is a good example of this.

So yes. The media does inform the public and report the news, but they do it from their own standpoint. They are not unbiased, and they do have priorities. Its not like anyone can truly fault them for this, really. Its in human nature to want things your way and to have people agree with you. The media has the good fortune of being in a position to present their standpoint in a forum that is, supposedly, unbiased. It helps some when people believe that it really is unbiased.
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Old 03-27-2004, 11:14 AM   #13
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Last I checked, America's a free country, and I can say what I want,
So only you can and others can't? You are a real loser Itlum. It is never the media's fault. They are only the messengers. PErhaps you need to look at the message a little closer. That is your right as an American also. Get off you lazy fat ass and start making an effort to celebrate your rights in our Democracy.
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Old 03-27-2004, 02:02 PM   #14
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Where, exactly, did I tell someone they couldn't say what they wanted? I told him to fuck off, that's a far cry from telling him he had no right to say what he wanted. I'd be a hypocrite, telling people to celebrate their rights as an American, but only the way that I found proper...wouldn't I?

As to me being fat, I'll thank you to stop making assumptions about me. You know nothing about me, and I do take offense at your statement. I am not fat. I am overweight for my age and height, according to those indicators, but I'm only 16 pounds over what I should weigh according to military judgements, taking into account bone size and weight and muscle density as well.

I'll keep in mind how swiftly you are willing to rush to judgement and make assumptions based on absolutely no evidence, though, when I weigh your statement.

Let's see...I should look at the message a little closer. Alright. How do you propose I do so? Watch the news? I do that. I find that what I watch on CNN is different from what I watch on FOX, even when they're covering the same exact topic. I find that what I watch on NBC differs from what I watch on ABC, as well. Imagine that. So you're telling me that even though they're telling a different story about the same event, neither are guilty of putting their own spin on things? How does that work? Is it possible that truth is tangible? Is it possible that something happened two different ways at the same time in the same place? Amazing. Parallel universes existing simultaneously in the same space/time instance. Alert the quantum physicists, we have a breakthrough.

As to celebrating my rights in our "Democracy" lets peel this apart bit by bit. First off, this is not a Democracy. This is a Democratic Republic. The difference is that in a Democracy, there are no elected officials. Every single person has the exact same say as every other person. Every law is passed by approval of the majority of the entire population. Everything is done with the consent of the majority of the entire population. There is no vote that even one person does not take part in, unless they refuse to vote, by choice. In a Democratic Republic, the people elect officials, paid by taxpayers, who do the lawmaking for them. Each of these officials is elected by the majority of the populace, and these officials then decide on various issues concerning laws. The idea behind this is that these officials, elected by the majority, have the concerns of this majority in mind. It is, in effect, adding another step to the whole process.

As to the rights in question....I have the right to free speech, as does everyone else. I have exercised that right here to the extent that I have been allowed by the private owners of this message board. I have not attempted to limit the rights of other people. I vote when elections or laws are passed down to us, the people, to vote upon. I worship when and where I choose. I choose not to carry a gun, though I have entertained the notion. I have never been approached by a member of the military about quarter in my household during a time of peace. If they did attempt to forcefully do so, I would claim my right to refuse them.

I have never had to claim my right against unreasonable search and siezure. I would happily go about celebrating said right, if I had to use it.

I have never been held to answer for any capital or otherwise infamous crime. I hope that, if I might have to for some reason or another at any point in the future, I might do so before a grand jury. I have never been subject to double jeaopardy. I have never been compelled to be a witness against myself, nor have I been deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law. I have never once had private property taken for public use, much less without due compensation. I enjoy the thought that, should any of the above occur to me, I would be able to exercise my rights regarding each one.

I have never had to exercise my right to a speedy and public trial by an impartial jury. I hope that remains true for the remainder of my life. If I had to be put on trial, I am aware that I have the right to the assistance of counsel in my defense and witnesses in my favor.

I've never been sued. I am aware of my state's common law regarding civil suits.

I've never had to have bail posted for me, nor post bail for someone else.

Last but not least, I am certain my state has laws against that which they feel there should be laws for, if there are no laws covering said subject in our Constitution.

Yes...I do know my rights. Yes, I do celebrate them. Thank you very much, sir, for participating.

Last edited by Itlum; 03-27-2004 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 03-27-2004, 03:42 PM   #15
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
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Grats on your 8th post Itlum.
Does anybody have a whistle or one of them fancy new-year things?

That post is so long, it needs a binder. (taps his cigar)



Z..
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Old 03-27-2004, 04:01 PM   #16
Itlum
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Perhaps you can tell me what my post count has to do with the relevancy of the material found within that 8th post?

Seriously, if you can't post an honest rebuttal, why post anything at all?

Maybe I should congratulate you on your 1,838th post? Hooray.
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Old 03-27-2004, 04:49 PM   #17
Caelie123
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Originally Posted by Bumbleroot
So only you can and others can't? You are a real loser Itlum. It is never the media's fault. They are only the messengers. PErhaps you need to look at the message a little closer. That is your right as an American also. Get off you lazy fat ass and start making an effort to celebrate your rights in our Democracy.
Bumbleroot, I think he is making an effort in participating on this message board. You among others care more that he is a new poster than what he thinks. You don't want to debate, you want to criticise and that's why so many good debaters have left this board. Too many people want to criticise and attack rather than talk about why people feel the way they do. It's laughable that you think the media is never wrong.
I don't have a clue if Itlum is a conservative or a liberal. It never got that far because you guys want to put more emphasis on his name and post count rather than his opinion.
Do any of you think you are any more important or credible because you have been coming here longer?
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Old 03-27-2004, 04:54 PM   #18
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HAHA I think you people are intimidated by Itlum because he knows his shit. Zolmaz buddy don't come back till you sober up. You know better and you always regret it

Nice post btw Itlum.
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Old 03-27-2004, 05:20 PM   #19
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
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Caelie,
Just picking on the new guy. *CHEERZ*



GOD BLESS AMERICA
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Old 03-27-2004, 05:44 PM   #20
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Bumbleroot, I think he is making an effort in participating on this message board.
I don't have any problems with him participating, but when he tells us to fuck off because we express ourselves I am not going to lie down and allow that regardless if its me or an opposing viewpoint. Then he turns around and says he has the right to say what he believes. Well who is the hypocrite.
And Caelie, how can you even venture to have a clue if he knows what he is talking about, he hasn't even made enough posts to even make this example.
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Old 03-27-2004, 06:31 PM   #21
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
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I love it when people like "Itlum" comes along and tries to force everybody
to see certain points.

Kinda reminds me of everybody here.
Myself included.



GOD BLESS AMERICA (Indeed)
Zolmaz Zo'Boto (I was abused as a child, my mother forced me to suckle her boob)
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Old 03-27-2004, 06:45 PM   #22
Caelie123
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Originally Posted by Bumbleroot
And Caelie, how can you even venture to have a clue if he knows what he is talking about, he hasn't even made enough posts to even make this example.
Please tell me what post count has to do with it? It's not like anybody that comes here has to go thru "Probie" status to see if they know what they're talking about. BTW, he poped off his rights pretty well if you ask me and gave perfect examples. Get off ya high horse!

And Bumble, I don't believe he told you to FK off until after you posted this:
Originally Posted by Bumbleroot
Go on and keep living your meaningless life asshole.
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Old 03-27-2004, 07:34 PM   #23
Itlum
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I love it when people like "Itlum" comes along and tries to force everybody to see certain points.
I thought this was the point of debating. Two or more people try to bring each other around to their points of view. This tends to work best if everyone has an open mind and is actually willing to discuss, or else it turns into one person trying to insult the other and general mudslinging.

So did you not want a discussion? Did you post just so you could bash on the Democrats, and then bash on the people who don't agree with you? That is really professional and mature. That shows that you've done a lot of thinking.

It is so much easier to close your mind and say "You're wrong, I'm right". Hope it makes you feel better about yourself.
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Old 03-27-2004, 07:58 PM   #24
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As to which political party I choose to associate with, I remain strictly in the middle. I do not subscribe to the dogma pushed by either party, and view each politician individually based on their stands on the issues that concern me. I vote for laws based on how it would affect me and the people that I associate with, not based on how my "party" would vote. I am not a good Democrat. I am not a faithful Republican. I am neither Libertarian, nor am I a member of the Socialist party. Last I checked, I wasn't a Green either.

So what does that make me? An individual.

God forbid.
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Old 03-27-2004, 07:58 PM   #25
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
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Itlum say's,
I thought this was the point of debating.
After not quoting me fully?, It became your personal debate!
Allow me.

Originally Posted by Myself
I love it when people like "Itlum" comes along and tries to force everybody
to see certain points.

Kinda reminds me of everybody here.
Myself included.
Originally Posted by Itlum
I thought this was the point of debating. Two or more people try to bring each other around to their points of view. This tends to work best if everyone has an open mind and is actually willing to discuss, or else it turns into one person trying to insult the other and general mudslinging.

So did you not want a discussion? Did you post just so you could bash on the Democrats, and then bash on the people who don't agree with you? That is really professional and mature. That shows that you've done a lot of thinking.

It is so much easier to close your mind and say "You're wrong, I'm right". Hope it makes you feel better about yourself
.
Nobody insulted you. Would you like to be?
Hmm-Itlum? If you take another post out of context your credibility
goes to (zero) and you'll be just another wasted post. And thats anybodys post.


Geez, I wasted a post point on this.



GOD BLESS AMERICA
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