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Old 03-26-2004, 01:53 PM   #76
Inmountains
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"Vehicle exhaust is many more times toxic than cigarette smoke. The carbon monoxide component of it will do you in pretty quickly."

Except that I don't run my car next to your dinner table. I don't run my car next to you at the Black Jack table.
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Old 03-26-2004, 01:54 PM   #77
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Tell that to all those folks driving SUVs as status symbols.
Nothing wrong with that
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Old 03-26-2004, 02:15 PM   #78
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Except that I don't run my car next to your dinner table. I don't run my car next to you at the Black Jack table.
Sit in the non-smoking section.
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Old 03-26-2004, 02:15 PM   #79
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Well Cnjmorris, what would you have to say about playing EverQuest? A game that is directly inspired by Dungeons and Dragons. You even pick false gods for your characters to whorship and cast spells. It has alot of occult influence.

Seems like a double standard if you are able to play D&D games and then point the finger at someone who smokes.
If you think that playing EQ is the same as dabbling in "magic" things which the Bible forbids (I don't know what exactly forbids on that topic, I used to know but I've forgotten and its never been an issue since I know I do nothing close) then obviously playing GTA is the same as going out and killing people right? So everyong who plays the game should be charge with murder for each person killed. What? You mean games and real life are different? Who knew????

Even pen and paper D&D isn't a good comparison (unless you end up in a game with freaks who insist on wearing the clothing and next thing you know are really trying to summon spirits and stuff).

There is a reason I can't play evil characters in game. There is a reason I like my Beastlord being agnostic. While I know it wouldn't matter, it just isn't in my nature to do otherwise.

Besides I wasn't pointing my finger. I was saying I was surprised. I honestly believe if you are a good Christian then smoking would not influence your salvation. I think people concerned with spending eternity with or without God should focus on making sure they have been baptized for remission of sins as an age of conscious choice and on reading the Bible and doing what it says. Everyone else can do what they want, they can accept the truth they receive from people who care for their soul or they can blow them off and label them zealots.
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Old 03-26-2004, 02:26 PM   #80
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I have no problems with EQ, it is that most hard-nosed christians who think drinking and smoking is of the devil would say EQ is satanic. was curious to hear what you have to say. I personally see no difference between it and D&D.

but you didnt answer the other part of my post and latter posts yet but whatever.
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Old 03-26-2004, 02:30 PM   #81
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I'm sorry, I wasn't ignoring it, I appreciate calm discussion.. even though it gets frustrating to me sometimes.

I will go back and answer it later but currently I am headed off to dinner with the family.
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Old 03-26-2004, 02:38 PM   #82
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np, Im just very curious of where these invisible lines are and who gets to make them.

Last edited by kanibaal; 03-26-2004 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 03-26-2004, 05:59 PM   #83
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Jesus is the reason people view Christians as lunatics. HE is who calls us to act as we act.
Whoa...you say a guy who has been dead for two millenia is telling you how to act? At least the voices in my head aren't dead...at least I'm pretty sure they're not.

Your beliefs are your beliefs, and I view them much the same as I view smoking....I'll believe what I'll believe. I'll happily discuss my beliefs with you, if you choose to discuss them. The moment you begin trying to tell me that I'm going to hell because my beliefs (and my actions based around those beliefs) differ from yours is the moment I stop paying any attention to you.

Here's a news flash for you. Muslims, Jews, and Christians all believe in the same god. This leads me to believe, whole-heartedly, that every religion worldwide believes in the same god. They all have the same basic fundamental attitudes toward various things they all describe as "sins". Whether or not their version of a holy book actually addresses these items directly as sins is not entirely relevant. Every holy book has what it calls a correct way of living. Each one of these correct ways of living is basically the same.

Where the religions differ is merely in interpretation. I believe that when the bible calls for me to practice my faith, I am assumed to be practicing said faith in the manner I find most appropriate to myself. This does not include eating a wafer and having a sip of grape juice. This does not include kneeling on a rug and facing a particular direction. This does not include murmuring in front of a statue. It doesn't include singing songs.

Why is my worship of god any less than anyone else's? Perhaps more important...

Why is this thread about smoking turning into a thread about religion?
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Old 03-26-2004, 06:23 PM   #84
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I assume this is the one you wanted me to answer: ?

what part of the 'culture' said it was acceptable and unacceptable? so if in these others countires non-christians set the cultural standards are these missionaries you know deceived and sinning? how do we find out who set the standards? too many varibles man. I think you need to relax and let go of some unhealthy thought paterns. drinking doesnt = evil.
First of all I didn't say that drinking is wrong. If drinking any alcohol was wrong then why would Jesus turn water to wine? Getting drunk is wrong.

The Bible talks about being careful how we appear to other people. If in a particular culture people view devout Christianity and drinking as things that can't mix then you can cause a brother (or someone interested in knowing God) to stumble. It is worth it for that drink? No, it isn't, if you believe in the importance of bringing others to believe in God. Now if another culture views wine the same as water and doesn't really have a problem with alcohol then it isn't a concern.

The standards are set in the Bible. We have chapter after chapter of example.

I know that is foreign to most people in the world. Even people who don't live in America are familiar with the American mentality of always wanting more and their "it's all about me" mentality. It isn't popular to ask people to give up what they wany. That is why they conform religion to what is comfortable and say "it's personal" so they don't have to suffer the uncomfortable feeling of trying to share their faith and get laughed at. That is why they say "just invite Jesus in your heart" and ignore His commandments so that they don't have to do anything except "believe."
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Old 03-26-2004, 06:34 PM   #85
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This thread is funny. How many here support marijuana? Drug use, yet do not
support smoking cigs, Hmm?

Double standards indeed.

While Smoking pot is cool, smoking a cig isn't. Wtg double standard.



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Old 03-26-2004, 07:15 PM   #86
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You can speak for yourself when it comes to leading people to jesus and not telling them about his commandments but dont try to speak for others.

Anyways since you brought it up... at what time in the wedding did jesus perform this miracle of water to wine? at the end right? when all the wine was gone. which means all or at least some of the people in attendance were very buzzed(close to drunk) or totally drunk. hmm so jesus gave intoxicated people more to drink and it was the best wine served yet they say. Im not saying jesus is telling people to get drunk but dont you think it is kinda funny? maybe God isnt as uptight as we like to make him out to be. like I said, I am not saying God agrees with and supports heavy drinking but if you look at the story he definately was out of character(so we think) creating alcohol for intoxicated people to consume.

in others words Im saying loosen up or at least understand you dont serve a God who is sitting in heaven with a massive club ready to squash us into nothing when we slip or fail. he is holy and wants us to do our best at becoming holy but that is a personal thing. alcohol to you might be a real bad issue while Im doing all I can to get rid of being a judgmental prick. someone else might be really hung up on quiting smoking while someone else smokes and is working thru issues of bitterness and depression.

anyways later man.

Last edited by kanibaal; 03-26-2004 at 07:22 PM.
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Old 03-26-2004, 08:53 PM   #87
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Kanibaal,
I feel violated by your intollerant post against people who consume
legal stimulants! Shame on you. (BURP)



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Old 03-26-2004, 09:50 PM   #88
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Polite, responsible smokers don't bother me. I've never asked someone to put out a cigarette, but I suppose if it bothered me enough, I would. Most likely, I would just relocate.

That would remove me from the situation, and not make me look like an ass in the process. I cannot, for the life of me, see where punching someone would rectify the situation.
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Old 03-26-2004, 11:37 PM   #89
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which means all or at least some of the people in attendance were very buzzed(close to drunk) or totally drunk.
I don't think that assumption is supported by the text. They ran out, which implies their supply was exhausted... but it in no way says how much each person drank. Its possible that more people than expected showed up. Plus most historians say that the wine that they drank back then was a lot less potent than the average wine today. Don't get me wrong, they could still get drunk on alcohol available but a lot of the alcohol they had was so weak that a person would get sick before they got drunk.

I don't believe God has a stick waiting to get His chance to thump someone, Bible says He wants all people to repent, and He gave them a way to reach Him.
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Old 03-27-2004, 12:33 AM   #90
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Car's have about as legitimate a use as a horse or plain cycling do. How many horses got left behind, noses buried in their chaffbags, when the god car pulled from the kerb, revving and belching a photo-chemical cloud which engulfed entire cities? All horses did wrong was fart, shit, and piss a river. You can sit in the non-smokers section all you want, car exhaust still gets you. It shortens the life of your children, it causes the premature death of your parents, it is pervasive. Car exhaust blots the sun and turns the sky brown but you can forgive that. The car created highways dividing forests and depleting habitat, started the Greenhouse Effect, kills millions of animals, and endangers even more.

Way to get your priorities straight.
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Old 03-27-2004, 12:42 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Inmountains
Except that I don't run my car next to your dinner table. I don't run my car next to you at the Black Jack table.
I don't care what you do Inmountains; I'm just stating a fact. Exhaust from cars is more toxic ppm or ppb than cigarette smoke is.
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Old 03-27-2004, 06:08 AM   #92
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This country is a FAR cleaner place because of the switch from horses to cars. We traded filth and disease for a tiny bit of pollution.
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Old 03-27-2004, 06:33 AM   #93
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That has to be one of the dumbest arguments in a while Misty.
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Old 03-27-2004, 07:00 AM   #94
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Hey Ulu, the exhaust from a Coal powered generating plant is worse PPM than a car or a cigarette. The exhaust from an F18 or a Diesel Powered Battleship is worse than a cigarette! The point here is, is that comparing vehicle exhaust to cigarette smoke is not a valid argument, it's apples and oranges.

Let's look at what "your right to smoke" has done to society!

1/3 of the garbage on the US Highways is cigarette butts.
Health costs to the US Taxpayer for Cigarette related illness is in the Billions.

If a person wants to smoke, I agree 100 percent they have that "right". But that "right" shall not infringe on my "rights", is my main point.
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Old 03-27-2004, 07:20 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by AresProphet
Caelie, even though I understand that it's difficult to quit smoking, I don't think it justifies the habit in any way, shape, or form. Do whatever the hell you want with yourself, I don't care, but keep it away from others.
I never said you condoned it. I said thank you for understanding that it is very difficult to quit.
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Old 03-27-2004, 07:31 AM   #96
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Health costs to the US Taxpayer for Cigarette related illness is in the Billions.
Here we go with the cost of Cigarette related illness's again. Leave that out of it unless you want to discuss the cost of HIV related illnesses, Liver disease illnesses and the cost of heart disease related illness's due to obesity.
People should stop eating, drinking, smokeing, having sex and generally breathing all together in order to bring the billions of dollars of tax money down related to any of those illnesses caused by something someone "chooses" to do.
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Old 03-27-2004, 10:18 AM   #97
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Yeah, because even though smoking and obesity have no valid connection in the arguement... we'll talk about them to get you off topic.

1) They aren't the same
2) Even if they were... a person who complains about smoking costs to health care will probably agree with you about the HIV and Obesity costs... so now what? They want to get rid rid of all those costs, so the diversion doesn't work.
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Old 03-27-2004, 02:02 PM   #98
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Here we go with the cost of Cigarette related illness's again. Leave that out of it unless you want to discuss the cost of HIV related illnesses, Liver disease illnesses and the cost of heart disease related illness's due to obesity.
HIV isn't a valid counter. You can end up with AIDS without making any choice to do or not do the acts people normally associate w/ AIDS. Take rape for example, or being assaulted by an infected person w/ a needle.


But yes, Obesity, Smoking, and Drinking are far more voluntary.

Carry on.

*Quick Edit, I was typing faster than I was thinking*
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Old 03-27-2004, 02:28 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Inmountains
Let's look at what "your right to smoke" has done to society!
Who the fuck are you addressing here? Learn how to attribute before you post.
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Old 03-27-2004, 02:57 PM   #100
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oop's. see below. damn I feel stupid!
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