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Old 03-25-2004, 08:41 PM   #51
Lurkerr
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I heard that smoking strengthens your bones. True?
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Old 03-25-2004, 09:22 PM   #52
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Not the onw your thinking of thought Lurkerr =P
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Old 03-25-2004, 09:22 PM   #53
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Even as a smoker I do find it irritating to see people flick their butts
out the window. I have an automotive ionizer that works great.
My truck never smells like cigs in the morning, even with a full ashtray.

As far as smoking around others, I try to avoid it. Even at a family restaurant
that has a large smoking section. I don't like second hand smoke myself.

And I have no quams about storing butts in my pocket to keep them
off the ground while i'm outdoors at a festival etc. So there ya go.

The sign on my old business read, (NON-SMOKERS BEWARE)




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Old 03-25-2004, 09:51 PM   #54
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Had some hot-shot asshole flick a cigarette butt into my car when the window was down. Passed him and tossed my chewing gum out of the sunroof.

Yeah, he was pissed.
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Old 03-25-2004, 10:11 PM   #55
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If someone asks me, politely, to not smoke near them, I will move.

If someone tells me, rudely, to move, I will treat them as I treat any rude person and ignore them.

The fact that I choose to smoke does not make me less of a person, just as the fact that you take your morning coffee with two sugars instead of three does not make you less of one. Certainly, I will die faster, but I am well aware of this. My risks are my own to take.

If you do not have the miniscule amount of courage it takes to ask me, politely, to step away from you, I will not. This is not being an ass about it. This is doing as I wish, as any American is entitled to do. If you are displeased with it, ask me to stop doing it, or at least to stop doing it near you. I will no longer do so near you.

As to not being able to smoke in a non-smoking establishment, I fully respect the rights of the owners of said establishments, and I do not smoke within them. I will, however, smoke my cigarette in the designated smoking area. If there is not one clearly defined, I will assume the designated smoking area is directly outside of your establishment, or wherever else I may wish to smoke. If this displeases you, as a customer, you may ask me to move. You may also move yourself away from me, which I would prefer, but you seem to have a problem with inconveniencing yourself. I, on the other hand, do not have a problem with inconveniencing myself if someone requests it for their comfort. Is the non-smoker, with no care for my convenience, better than me, who cares about this complete stranger's wishes?

I am not a pushover, though. I do so because I wish to. As I said...be polite, and I will do the polite thing, even if you are being politely rude. If you are pushy in your demand that I move from where I was standing before you decided to occupy that same general area....fuck you.

I will not stop smoking. I don't want to stop smoking. But I will abide by the wishes of others so long as they do not directly infringe upon my rights as an American. The moment you cross that boundary is the moment I stop being nice.
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Old 03-25-2004, 11:23 PM   #56
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You know, I was thinking to myself the other day that I love to smoke. I wish I had never started, so I wouldn't miss it so much when I quit (October 10, 2003). It's actually not that bad, really; I hardly ever think about it at all. But, every once in awhile, the whiff of cigarette smoke tugs at me.

I was always very considerate when I smoked, as were most of the smokers I know. If I were smoking at a bus stop and someone else came up to wait, I'd normally put it out before they got the chance to say something. I didn't HAVE to, I wanted to. Still, some of you CAN get pretty self-righteous towards us (I know I'm not technically part of "us" anymore, but it's easier that way ), no matter how much we have to concede. How many of you, that turn your nose up at smokers, talk on your cell phone while driving? Did you know that doing so increases the chance you'll have a wreck by 400%? That's infinitely more dangerous than second-hand smoke if you ask me. Oh, and unless people are constantly blowing cigarette down your throat, you are not even in the same ballpark when it comes to risk as the smoker himself. To quote Jules, "it's not even the same fuckin' sport". If you're so worried about carbon-monoxide poisoning, ride a bike.

To those who keep saying "just quit", I wish it were so easy. Cigarettes are more addictive than heroin. One of the hardest things I've ever done was quit smoking. Do you think I didn't hate the way my breath and clothes smelled? Do you think I got a kick out of wheezing? Do you think I enjoy my winning smile? I hated all that shit, yet yes, it was still damn hard to quit. It's very much like alcoholism in that, you're always a smoker, you just don't light up. I still crave a smoke from time to time, and from what I'm told, I always will. I wish I could go back in time so I could kick my dumb ass when I started, but what's done is done. All I can do now is deal with it.

Now, for all you rebellious smokers, you DO have a responsibility to those around you. It's called fuckin' COURTESY! Sure, you have every right to smoke wherever it's not outlawed, but use a little consideration. Oh, and to those that throw their butts out the window, use your damn ashtray. How many of those millions and millions of butts are yours? Not a lot, but millions and millions of people can say that. Litter is litter is litter, whether it's a cigarette butt or a dumptruck's worth of garbage. Rationalizing that someone else is throwing out even more garbage than you is a losing argument from the get-go. A thief is a thief no matter how much, or little, he steals.

To the self-righteous pricks: he who is without sin yadda, yadda, yadda.

To the defiant smokers: lighten up. If they aren't judging you in this way, they're judging you in some other way.
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Old 03-25-2004, 11:26 PM   #57
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My father smokes; has for years, ever since he was in the Air Force at age twenty. He's 58 now, in decent shape. If anything slows him down it's arthritis, but he knows he's lucky. 38 years smoking and he hasn't had lung cancer, emphysema, and has good blood pressure. This led my sister to believe (against my father's own advice) that she could start smoking because it wouldn't harm her. Can only hope the luck runs in the family...

Contrast this to the stories of parents dying in their 40's with lungs blackened beyond recognition, and you see the extremes.

Now, let's tie this in with obesity and fast food.

I consume enough junk food that I really should weigh about thrice what I do: all of 135 pounds. I could chalk that up to age, but I see guys my age who struggle to keep in shape.

There's no doubt that obesity is unhealthy, of course, and it's probably not good on my arteries to eat what I do regardless of my weight. Still, the range of extremes looks surprisingly like the range with smoking. You've got those of us who don't have a problem, and those who are addicted.

Is junk food addictive? It may be a stretch to say so, but I'd argue that it's psychologically addictive. It tastes good, but so do healthier foods (Subway remains one of my favorite fast-food restaurants). And it's very convenient to just get food at the drive-thru instead of cooking your own meal. Is junk food physically addictive? No. There aren't withdrawal symptoms unless you go on a strict diet (there's an adjustment period in those cases).

Cigarettes are both physically and psychologically addictive. The cliche "I can quit when I want to" is only partially true. Cigarette addiction is nothing that human willpower cannot overcome, but in any case, it takes a lot more effort to break the habit than just keep smoking. And Horm has brought up the "oral fixation" part of it. Though I tend to put little stock in psychoanalysis, there's little question that smokers tend to have other habits related to the mouth (nail biting, pencil chewing) or fingers (tapping fingers to music).

Where am I going with this? Illustrating an important distinction.

Fast food has a purpose. It's an alternative to a meal you cook, for the specific purpose of convenience. Similar junk food along the lines of potato chips are the same way. Easy to munch on while doing other things. Yes, there are even alternatives to junk food, but in moderation you aren't going to get hooked on it and not be able to stop. [As a side note, the Lays potato chip motto underscores the psychological addiction of junk food]

Cigarettes do not have a legitimate purpose. They calm your nerves? So do millions of other things. They have no nutritional value whatsoever. They contain nothing but chemicals that specifically get your brain hooked on them. Even if there was no psychological factor in addiction, cigarettes would be just as common, because they are mind-altering drugs. The only distinction I see between tobacco and marijuana is that one has the good fortune to have been a major cash crop in the Americas while this country grew.

The fast food analogy is tired; obesity isn't a result of McDonalds any more than fatal car crashes are the result of Ford. One might bring up alcohol, instead, and have a better case.

For one thing, alcohol enjoys even fewer restrictions that tobacco. Magazines have dozens upon dozens of booze and beer ads. Beer ads have almost as much air time during sports games as car commericals. Tobacco companies cannot advertise on TV. The FCC now regulates depictions of smoking during primetime TV (drinking actually is more strictly regulated). Warning labels on cigarette boxes are far more prevalent than warning labels on alcohol, which is generally limited to a warning about pregnant mothers and drinking.

So is this a double standard? I'd say it is, but not to a grievous extent. Alcohol probably should get more flak for advertising than it does, and that little "drink responsibly" blurb is pathetic little to warn about the dangers of drinking and driving. And that's the keystone of the argument.

It's hard to argue that drinking and driving is less dangerous than tobacco smoke. It isn't. It kills more people; getting behind the wheel while drunk is attempted suicide and attempted murder all rolled into one. So why isn't alcohol illegal? You might as well ask why cars aren't illegal. They are just as much to blame as the booze, and probably more so, since they are the weapon used in the crime. Drinking by itself is relatively harmless; not entirely, but a drastic enough reduction from the carnage of drunk driving that any incidents from just drunkenness nearly insignificant. You'll still get reckless teens killing themselves and three fucking friends by being dumbasses driving at over 100 mph, even without alcohol.

Are there merits to drinking? Yes and no. Many studies show that moderate alcohol consumption can have benefits for your heart and/or blood pressure. It isn't a carcinogen, although too much can wreak havoc on your liver. Thing is, just your liver, not someone elses. And yes, it can be addictive, but alcoholism is more a psychological problem than physical.

Two sides to the coin, then. Tobacco isn't legitimized, by any means, but at the same time alcohol gets more of a free ride than it really should. It's the advertising that gets me; most places do check strictly for age when selling, and drunk driving is getting more and more pressure from police.

Add to this the number of smokers who disregard the health of others, who really might not want carcinogens pumped into their lungs, and I don't see much of a leg for smokers to stand on.
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Old 03-26-2004, 12:12 AM   #58
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It's fucking amazing how people can get so worked up over 2nd hand cigarette smoke at a bus stop, and they won't even blink at 6 lanes of bumper to bumper traffic blowing exhaust smoke 3 feet from their faces. Fucking wankers.
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Old 03-26-2004, 12:59 AM   #59
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Gave it up mid-January 2003. My health has improved; I rarely get headaches, I can smell things better, I don't get dizzy, I can taste things better.

I like the fact that I'm no longer inconvenienced by smoking. I don't hang for smoke breaks, I don't itch and bitch any more to get outside and have a smoke. Malls, cinemas, etc, I'm no longer counting time till I can get out and smoke. I don't have to wear clothes that revolve around where do I stash a packet of smokes and a lighter.

After smoking on and off since I was 13 or so, I like the fact that I'm no longer slave to it.

But you have to want to give it up; no one can make you and no amount of preaching will convince you.
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Old 03-26-2004, 04:20 AM   #60
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I know people are going to get all bent out of shape over this but I find it amazing how many "religious" people on this board smoke.

I don't equate salvation with smoking so calm down. I only mean... 99% of the Christians I know don't smoke because they respect their bodies too much. 99% of them don't drink, even socially, because they don't want to appear like society.

I was just surprised to see so many people who claim to be religious (I only say "claim" because I don't know you, not because you smoke) are saying they smoke. Its just foreign to me.
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Old 03-26-2004, 05:17 AM   #61
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AresProphet it's nice to hear from a non smoker that does understand how hard it is to just quit smoking. I'm not targeting fast food and obesity. I'm targeting people who can't push away from food of any kind. Before my husband lost 80 lbs, he was always eating. I swear he was like a newborn baby and had to eat something every two hours (and was snacking on something in between).

I've always been thin. Growing up I was called twiggy, boney ma-ro-ney and any other kind of name you could think of that related to being skinny. I never understood "dieting" as being a hard thing to do, just like non smokers don't understand "quiting smoking". I tried weight on and stuff like that. When I was 30 my husband said "don't worry about gaining weight, you'll put it on when you hit 40". When I hit 40 I stayed between 115 and 120. I was excited because I finally looked like I wasn't from Ethopia.

I quit smoking for 8 months and got up to 140 pounds. It went to all the wrong places and I said "Man, I gotta get back down to 120", so I went on the Atkins low carb diet because I had seen first hand how my husband lost over 80 pounds. It was easy for him because he's not a big sweet eater, not a big bread eater and he hates pasta. The man could live off of steak and eggs, pork chop and eggs etc. It was hard for me because I love sweets, potatoes and Italian food.

I did it and I'm back down to 122, but for me it was hard. My point to this post is, I will never get on peoples ass about dieting again because I did something that I had always blew off as easy and now see first hand that it's not that easy.

For all you non smokers that have never smoked or never smoked to the point of addiction, you have no clue what you're talking about when it comes to quitting smoking.

My husband works for the County and come April 1st, they can't smoke in County cars anymore. Seeings how he spends 90% of his day in the county car we decided we were just going to quit smoking. March 1st was our stop date. We bought the patches, hard candy and we were gonna do it. We did good all day till about 9pm and he said " I would really really like a cigarette" I said "me too, you got any" so we started digging and rumageing and came up with 3 cigarettes. It was pathetic lol.

Next point is we were trying to quit, not because we wanted to, but because a situation was being imposed on him to make it difficult to smoke. We tried a few more days and finally realized we weren't ready to quit. We wanted to quit, but we weren't ready. I probably smoked a pack and a half a day and he smoked 2 packs a day. At this point we have cut back. Instead of smoking a cigarette every 15 minutes, I time it and smoke one every 2 hours. He has done the same. Now a pack last me 2 days and he is smoking a little less than a pack a day. Hey, thats a start!

We still intend to quit, and one day in the near future we'll succeed. We're looking at June 1st. (gotta get past Memorial Day Weekend) which is a get together weekend with our kids and my brother and sister in law and their kids. We go camping, get 2 campsites and have a ball, but I enjoy sitting around the fire at night, drinking a beer and smoking a cigarette.

Post like Ulujain and Wildane give me confidence that I can do it. For all you holier than thou non smokers that don't have a clue, you're not helping any. I am well aware that it's bad for ya. I feel great, but the thought of having a chest x-ray scares me to death. Go back and read AresProphet's post and realize that smoking is probably the most addictive thing there is out there. Be supportive and loose the anger and realize that most smokers would love to quit successfully.
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Old 03-26-2004, 05:28 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by cnjmorris
I don't equate salvation with smoking so calm down. I only mean... 99% of the Christians I know don't smoke because they respect their bodies too much. 99% of them don't drink, even socially, because they don't want to appear like society.

I was just surprised to see so many people who claim to be religious (I only say "claim" because I don't know you, not because you smoke) are saying they smoke. Its just foreign to me.
I remember the day when the men would light up on the steps as soon as church was over. My dad was one of them. Even non Christians respect their bodies. I'm a Christian, but I'm sorry, I've never bought into the whole Christians are any better than Non Christians when it comes to smoking and drinking. I know what the Bible says about your body being a temple, but I don't think smoking or drinking will determine if you're going to heaven or hell. It might and if it does, I'm screwed, but I'll be screwed with the majority of Christians out there.
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Old 03-26-2004, 06:46 AM   #63
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I was just surprised to see so many people who claim to be religious (I only say "claim" because I don't know you, not because you smoke) are saying they smoke. Its just foreign to me.
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Old 03-26-2004, 07:05 AM   #64
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Cnjmorris, you need to visit England sometime. Once church is out almost all the people hit local pubs, even pastors. Heck some churches have pubs in their basements to give a place to relax and listen to music. There is nothing wrong at all with drinking a drink or two unless you had prior problems with drinking and cant control yourself. I know alot of christians who drink on a basic social level to relax. If people sit back and point fingers judging someone because they are simply having a drink then they are the ones with the issues, christian and non-christian alike.

I usually drink some wine or a guinness with each evening meal. Big deal. If you can show me a clear and precise scripture in the bible that says drinking in moderation is bad, then post it.

I dont agree with smoking but it doesnt make someone any less of a christian. we all have problems... too much TV, too much playing of videogames, cussing, being judgmental, bad attitudes, impure thoughts ect ect. they are all the same as smoking. I would rather know someone who smokes and who isnt judgmental over someone who judges others.
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Old 03-26-2004, 07:31 AM   #65
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Falical? I believe you mean phallic, Professor
I knew you were an expert

Translation: He catches..

Thats what I thought
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Old 03-26-2004, 08:02 AM   #66
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I don't know cnjmorris, but when I think of him, I think "gee, it must be nice to be perfect".

If you believe in God, you know there was only one perfect man. We all sin (/gasp, yes even us Christians). We sin everyday in one form of another. A sin is a sin and I don't believe one sin is any worse than another sin.

I told a guy I work with the other day (and this guy is big in the Baptist church). I said "Ya know, I sin every day I come to work. When you guys don't want to talk to somebody, I lie...I make up something like "he's in a meeting, or he's stepped out for a little bit". He just laughed and said "yea, I sin everyday too when I drive by my neighbors house and drool over his bass boat and his new Acura". And that my friend is why we get to ask for forgiveness. God knew man would sin everyday in one form or another.

cnjmorris, you are a prime example of why non Christians think Christians are religious lunatics. Most are not. Most believers live their life no different than non believers other than the fact that they believe.
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Old 03-26-2004, 08:16 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Scalz
.:: Quote ::..
Falical? I believe you mean phallic, Professor
**** ..:: End Quote ::..


I knew you were an expert
Not really- was merely pointing out your expert command of advanced vocabulary. Lemme guess: beauty school dropout?

Originally Posted by Scalz
**** ..:: Quote ::..
Translation: He catches..
**** ..:: End Quote ::..



Thats what I thought
That's what you wished. Like I often have to tell Trith, despite your obvious lust for me, I simply don't have an interest in sweaty mansex. I do however think the two of you would make a perfect couple
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Old 03-26-2004, 09:00 AM   #68
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Here you go Horm, I bet you never knew how healthy you were staying.

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_903083.html?menu=
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Old 03-26-2004, 10:20 AM   #69
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cnjmorris, you are a prime example of why non Christians think Christians are religious lunatics. Most are not. Most believers live their life no different than non believers other than the fact that they believe.
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Jesus is the reason people view Christians as lunatics. HE is who calls us to act as we act. I seriously don't have a clue what you worship but it isn't God if you can honestly say that most believers live their lives no different than nonbelievers and then act as if that is okay.

I agree, most people who call them selves Christians don't act any different, and its a shame since the Bible is clear on the fact that Christians will be known by their works. If you are really a Christian you will be an outcast. Read your Bible and that is clear. Teaching what Christ teacher isn't popular.... why do you think Satan's teaching of "invite Jesus into your heart" is so popular? It calls for no commitment, for no change.

Believing isn't enough... why do you think that the Bible (in James) includes the topic and says that even demons believe and are afraid. What would the point of that verse mean if not adressing the fact that we are called to do more than believe.

As far as being perfect... I'm far from it. I know you were being sarcastic, and I know you know I don't think I am perfect. Being a Christian is not about being perfect, it is about trying to be like Jesus. He was perfect, and we will never reach that level of purity, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try.

Romans 6:1-2
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

I don't care about being considered a lunatic. Jesus was called worse. Jesus warned his followers they would be despised because of His name. If you aren't despised for your belief in Jesus, maybe it's because you hide your belief in the closet. So I'm a zealot, you act as if that is a bad thing. You act as if half belief and claiming to believe God but not caring enough to obey is better. I'd rather be a zealot than a hypocrite... because zealots at least try to do the right thing (not refering to zealots who kill in the name of a false god, despite the fact that I know some people want to tie the two hand in hand and act as if you can't have a sane zealot).

Jesus was a zealot. People who are truly dedicated to His service won't mind being considered the same.
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About the other responses... I understand that other nations have different customs and the "norm" is different. I, as us people from America are prone to do, was thinking in terms of where I live and didn't address other areas. I know missionaries who would never drink in the US, but drink where they are because its culturally acceptable (where they are its strange but getting drunk is looked down on and people who get drunk are avoided).

Either way, I wasn't saying that it is wrong. I was only saying that I choose not to because they (drinking and smoking) are both expensive habit forming actions that have the potential to alter attitude and decision making while offering nothing in return.

I don't think that Christians who smoke or drink are going to hell, any more than I think all those who don't are going to heaven. God will know hearts and He will judge according to His word. I do have to wonder though... if someone says that they are dedicated to being a Christian and can't do something as small as preserving their lungs and avoiding getting drunk...
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Old 03-26-2004, 11:05 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Scalz
Here you go Horm, I bet you never knew how healthy you were staying.

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_903083.html?menu=
And to think I've been missing out on such an excellent health benefit. Thanks for the tip- this snots to you.
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Old 03-26-2004, 11:44 AM   #71
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Well Cnjmorris, what would you have to say about playing EverQuest? A game that is directly inspired by Dungeons and Dragons. You even pick false gods for your characters to whorship and cast spells. It has alot of occult influence.

Seems like a double standard if you are able to play D&D games and then point the finger at someone who smokes.

Also how different are christians suppose to become? Who has set up this unknown scale we are to live by to show we arent part of 'the world'? Are we suppose to not have cars, listen to Led Zepplin, or wear clothes with color because 'the world' does? I think you got it wrong and you are being way overboard with the zealot stuff.

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Old 03-26-2004, 12:04 PM   #72
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Caelie, even though I understand that it's difficult to quit smoking, I don't think it justifies the habit in any way, shape, or form. Do whatever the hell you want with yourself, I don't care, but keep it away from others. We shouldn't have to put up with cigarette smoke, especially when it often means you simply have to wait a whole five minutes to light up elsewhere, or maybe move a few yards away. The ground is not your personal ashtray, either; if you smoke, you have to accept you are going to generate trash that requires you to dispose of properly.

On car exhaust: it's not remotely similar. Toxic? Yes. Preventable? Not really. The fact that cars have a legitimate use, with benefits far outweighing the environmental hazards, mitigates the pollution. We certainly should keep emissions as clean as possible. And, if you yourself drive, ride public transit, or whatever, you have about as much grounds to complain about car exhaust as a smoker who complains about secondhand smoke!

On religion and smoking: I was under the impression that it was, specifically, the Jewish faith that prohibited self-harm. This accounts for the emphasis on Judaic medicine and the number of Jewish hospitals, and leads to some controversy over terminal illness and hospice... but does Christianity adhere to the doctrine? From an objective standpoint (I sure as hell am not religious!) it would seem not. The vast majority of Christians do things that probably are considered harmful to their bodies. I would think that, since the people define the doctrine and practices, it would be acceptable. You might get into the argument that your god defines your doctrine and practices, but religion itself is a human institution (you don't need a specific religion in order to worship), and as such can be redefined by humans. Generally, the Catholic church is the only one that is centralized to the extent that they can implement widespread policy changes. All the other religions are very 'personal', so you'll get those who still believe smoking is a sin, even if 90% of the rest don't think so. Does the bible prohibit it? Who cares?! Christianity is a 'pick-and-choose' faith, in that most Christians will ignore (or interpret 'figuratively' ) parts that are inconvenient anyway.
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Old 03-26-2004, 12:05 PM   #73
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I know missionaries who would never drink in the US, but drink where they are because its culturally acceptable (where they are its strange but getting drunk is looked down on and people who get drunk are avoided).
what part of the 'culture' said it was acceptable and unacceptable? so if in these others countires non-christians set the cultural standards are these missionaries you know deceived and sinning? how do we find out who set the standards? too many varibles man. I think you need to relax and let go of some unhealthy thought paterns. drinking doesnt = evil.
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Old 03-26-2004, 12:44 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by AresProphet
On car exhaust: it's not remotely similar. Toxic? Yes. Preventable? Not really. The fact that cars have a legitimate use, with benefits far outweighing the environmental hazards, mitigates the pollution. We certainly should keep emissions as clean as possible. And, if you yourself drive, ride public transit, or whatever, you have about as much grounds to complain about car exhaust as a smoker who complains about secondhand smoke!
Vehicle exhaust is many more times toxic than cigarette smoke. The carbon monoxide component of it will do you in pretty quickly.
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Old 03-26-2004, 12:48 PM   #75
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The fact that cars have a legitimate use, with benefits far outweighing the environmental hazards, mitigates the pollution.
Tell that to all those folks driving SUVs as status symbols. It may be impossible to stop exhaust pollution totally, but we can damn well control it a lot better than we are. And, I'm sure the SUV owners who actually have a legitimate use for all that space number in the minority. I'm willing to bet the number of SUV owners to other automobile owners is a bit higher than smokers to non-smokers, too.
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