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Old 03-27-2004, 06:51 AM   #26
gojirra monk
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Want to know something funny? No one has ever seen CFCs break down in the atmosphere, much less into something harmful to ozone.

Want more? CFCs are prized by industry because they are so stable. This means that it is very difficult to degrade them, even under harsh conditions. They are also non-toxic and non-flammable. No other refrigerant in common use can make ANY of these claims, much less all three.

I've got more for ya, too. Ozone is readily created when a bare oxygen atom runs into an oxygen molecule. Oxygen is one of the diatomic elements, meaning that the base state is so unstable it wants to bond to anything it can get it's hands on, and in practice means that you never see a lone oxygen atom for long. How does that relate to the ozone layer?

Glad you asked. Molecular oxygen can absorb a photon of ultraviolet light and get enough energy to break into two atoms of oxygen. These free oxygens then can bump into oxygen molecules and form ozone. Guess what happens to ozone when it absorbs ultraviolet light? It gets warm, but rarely breaks.

We call this a negative feedback loop. More UV gets through, more ozone gets created. More ozone around, less UV gets through.

The only thing that has the ability to make a meaningful difference is the ozone layer is the sun because only the sun has the ability to change the input to the system.

Even if CFCs could break down in the atmosphere in meaningful quantity (they can't), and if those breakdown products were more significant than the crap spewed from volcanoes (they aren't) they couldn't hurt the ozone layer because the layer rebuilds itself, maintaining the steady state which is controlled purely by the amount of UV light.
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Old 03-30-2004, 02:01 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Trith
Kerryn..consider yourself educated now.
Thank you but I considered myself educated beforehand having been taught at college and university by people who knew what they were talking about.

Firstly it was Xanthaar who gave you empyrical evidence regarding holes in the ozone layer, not I. Xanthaar and I are old friends so maybe that has you confused. Perhaps you were just blissfully ignorant of who you were talking to or maybe you were just responding to my request for some support.

You then posted with information which is 18 months out of date and is superceded by newer findings.

Unless you're suggesting I'm allowed to post news articles from the 17th centrury in support of a claim that Britain is the dominant superpower in the world, then I would advise you get some evidence that isn't so horribly outdated.

I'd say consider yourself educated Trith but one lesson does not make an education.
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Old 03-30-2004, 05:40 PM   #28
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I couldn't let this one pass:

Siafore said - "Mr. Powell was orginally scheduled to visit before the French President.

He was told that there was a change in schedule and that the French President would go before him. (I don't have a problem with that as in politcal circles the French President ranks above a Sec. of State). What ticked him off was that Zap talked to the French for 45 minutes! and kept Powell waiting outside. Basically in the politcal world that is seen as a slap in the face. Zap has said that he wants to mend fences with France and Germany..he spent 15 minutes with Germany and 13 minutes with the U.S....but 45 with France..figure that one...)"
It might be that France shares a border with Spain, and the Basque live in that 'mountainous' region. It cannot be so impossible to imagine they were discussing security issues vital to Spanish interests. Especially after the recent atrocity in Madrid.

Yes? No?
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Old 03-31-2004, 06:42 AM   #29
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Maybe, but there is another time and place for that.
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Old 03-31-2004, 07:12 AM   #30
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"Maybe, but there is another time and place for that"

Why was that not a suitable time? Is it not important enough of an issue to give priority to as far as both Spain and France are concerned?
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Old 03-31-2004, 07:31 AM   #31
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The purpose of the meeting was for everyone to meet the new president.
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Old 03-31-2004, 07:33 AM   #32
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And it's so much more important for the US secretary of state to meet a new president his country does not like rather then discuss the quick response to the terrorist attacks in the country.

Get over yourself. The man was kept waiting 45 minutes. You should make an appointment at my dentist where you can wait for hours on end.
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Old 03-31-2004, 07:54 AM   #33
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The president of a major country should have more integrity then your dentist.
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Old 03-31-2004, 08:54 AM   #34
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How so? People get kept waiting when there are more important things to discuss.

The problem is not that the Spanish president showed no integrity. The problem is that they Spanish president did not bow before the US secretary of state. If he'd kept the French president waiting for 3 hours you wouldn't have given a toss.

Sometimes people have to wait. The problem comes when those people aren't used to waiting for anyone.
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Old 03-31-2004, 09:40 AM   #35
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What the fuck does integretiy have to do with anything. He spent a little more time speaking to the President of a neighbouring country, with whome they share a security interest with respect to national terrorists, and as a result an official from another country was kept waiting less than an hour.
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Old 03-31-2004, 06:58 PM   #36
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Wisdom and Integrity are the most important traits of a leader. He could have had the conversation with the French president a few hours later after he met everyone else.
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Old 04-01-2004, 02:06 AM   #37
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Don't come that shit.

What you actually mean is he could have talked to the French President after he had spoken to your secretary of state.

You ever consider the French president might have had his own schedule to stick to?
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Old 04-01-2004, 06:35 AM   #38
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What you actually mean is he could have talked to the French President after he had spoken to your secretary of state.
No i meant what I said.
He could have had the conversation with the French president a few hours later after he met everyone else.
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Old 04-01-2004, 07:35 AM   #39
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So, basically, you're implying that the U.S. is more important than France?
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Old 04-01-2004, 07:52 AM   #40
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It has nothing to do with France really. My point of the whole post is that the Spanish elect is already on shakey grounds with the US, then goes out of his way to show a lack of integrity toward the Powell who was waiting to meet him.
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Old 04-01-2004, 08:01 AM   #41
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And our thought is that perhaps the Spanish president couldn't give a flying fuck that he's "on shakey grounds" with the US.
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Old 04-01-2004, 10:54 AM   #42
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I'm thinking what Kerryn's thinking. Not saying I agree with it, but it's how it appears to me.
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Old 04-01-2004, 06:23 PM   #43
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And our thought is that perhaps the Spanish president couldn't give a flying fuck that he's "on shakey grounds" with the US.
You're correct. I'm sure it will bite him in the ass for it sooner or later. Especially if Bush remains in office after this year.
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