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Old 03-21-2004, 02:49 PM   #1
bumbleroot
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Default More proof!!!!

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/03/21/ira...ons/index.html
And the PROOF keeps mounting. You cons have been living a lie with your lead LIAR George Bush lieing to you while you run around in complete Naivete and wallow in your cold-war ignorance. Simply as wrong as you can be cons. No evidence supporting your points and the WORLD is now standing up against you and Bush. The prospects for America's future is bleaker everyday with this president.
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Old 03-21-2004, 03:04 PM   #2
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In other news , UN under investigation for mass corruption in regards to saddam Hussein's oil for Food program.
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Old 03-21-2004, 04:17 PM   #3
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Chuk- to begin with you don't support your claims. Secondly, your point has nothing to do with my original post. Do you do this because you are wrong and can't be a man and admit it. STICK TO THE FACTS BUCK-O. Lastly, nobody is concerned with the oil for food program and nobody cares whether it was not followed or if it was. It had nothing to do with going to war with Iraq. Apparently the house of cards is crumbling.
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Old 03-21-2004, 04:24 PM   #4
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I'll be voting Bush in 2004. With my other option of Kerry (LOL) what choice do I have?

BTW...I didn't even click on the link Bumbleroot...more spin from the left I'm sure.

Go Go Conservatives
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Old 03-21-2004, 04:36 PM   #5
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,114740,00.html
Powell: U.S. Concerned on Oil-for-Food Diversions

Saturday, March 20, 2004

KUWAIT CITY U.S. administrators in Iraq have frozen records of a U.N. aid program to help investigators looking into possible corruption during the Saddam Hussein era, Secretary of State Colin Powell (search) said Saturday during a stopover in Kuwait.



U.S. congressional investigators have charged that Saddam's regime amassed $10 billion through oil smuggling, illegal surcharges and kickbacks from the United Nations' 1996-2002 oil-for-food program. An Iraqi newspaper has published a list of about 270 former Cabinet officials, legislators, political activists and journalists in about 46 countries suspected of profiting from the scam.

"We are concerned, deeply concerned, that money that was supposed to be going to help the Iraqi people was diverted by Saddam Hussein (search), once again demonstrating the nature of that regime," Powell told reporters.

"That money was not used for food or health care or clean water," he said. "It was used for palaces and debauchery."

Powell said Washington would assist the investigation that U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan (search) proposed Friday.

The oil-for-food program, which ended in November, was set up by the U.N. Security Council to enable the Saddam regime to sell oil on condition that the proceeds were used to buy humanitarian goods for the Iraqi people and pay reparations for the 1991 Gulf War.

Powell spoke at the end of his six-day tour of Asian and Middle East nations. He said that after the U.S.-led coalition hands power to Iraqis on June 30, Iraqi and coalition forces would be able to defeat the insurgents and "terrorists from outside the country."

"They will not prevail. They will be defeated," he said. "But while they are still around, they are causing considerable trouble."

Powell arrived Friday from Saudi Arabia, where he said the United States would help Arab countries move toward democracy, but it has no intention of imposing that system.

He reiterated this position in Kuwait, where the government has rejected Washington's Greater Middle East Initiative on the grounds that reform cannot be imposed from outside.

"It wasn't a list of reforms we presented to them and said 'please agree'," Powell said of the initiative.

The United States wanted not to impose, but to "help others achieve" reform, he said.

Powell said he was encouraged that the Arab League is discussing the possibility of adopting a resolution calling for political reform. He said he had contacted many Arab leaders on what a reform resolution might contain.
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Old 03-21-2004, 04:39 PM   #6
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Would you mind showing me how this is anything but an attempt to divert from the truth about the Iraq war? Or do you not have any idea how to form any logic?
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Old 03-21-2004, 04:41 PM   #7
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The UN was in charge of a corrupted program for Iraq? You trust corrupt people much dude?
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Old 03-21-2004, 04:57 PM   #8
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What proof????? Hans Blix running his mouth again trying desperately to regain the worlds attention that he didn't get when he was in Iraq????? I looked at your "proof" and read as far as his name and closed the page. All you do is spend all day pouring over the news sites trying to get anything to point at Bush. When don't you spend sometime perusing the Vietnam Vets pages to see what is written about Kerry? I am sorry I wasted my time reading anymore nonsense like this.
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Old 03-21-2004, 05:25 PM   #9
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From the title of the CNN article;
Iraq war wasn't justified, U.N. weapons experts say
I'm a U.S. expert and I say it was justified.

US > UN

I win
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Old 03-21-2004, 05:44 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Maximus Faticus
From the title of the CNN article;


I'm a U.S. expert and I say it was justified.

US > UN

I win
I, too, am a U.S expert, and I say it wasn't justified.

Veo > Maximus

*I* win.
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Old 03-21-2004, 06:17 PM   #11
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I'm a US Citizen and I say it was justified.....and I will keep preaching that it was justified.

Tune in to Rush, Neil Boortz, Shawn Hannity and Kim Peterson on your talk radio stations to hear the folks calling in that agree it was justified. Yes, tune into any of your right wing talk shows and it's very uplifting Yep Yep we'll keep on campaigning for Bush in 2004.
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Old 03-21-2004, 06:28 PM   #12
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Everybody knows Blix is just disgruntled, therefore they pay very little attention to what he has to say.

More comes into play here than just what Blix thinks. The Intelligence Agency thinks one way, Powell thinks another, Blix has his own opinion blah blah blah and it could go on and on forever.

I choose to put my money on Bush and you choose to put your money on the opinion of Blix. You still haven't presented "More Proof". You have presented an opinion.
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Old 03-21-2004, 06:34 PM   #13
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I'm from Minnesota, and I say it already happened, stop whining.

Oh, and read this post:

http://www.erollisimarr.com/forum/sh...4&postcount=13
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Old 03-21-2004, 06:46 PM   #14
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The media is a tricky beast. The reporters, editors, etc., use their opinions and beliefs to put a spin on the story they produce. They can add, omit, or manipulate facts to support whatever story they want to tell. Two of my brothers are in Iraq at the moment, and they say the same thing that Naenyen said in the post that Gojirra linked. They both say how frustrated they are by the media and their one-sided portrayal of events. I do love being told that I'm wrong just because I don't share someone else's opinion on a particular issue.
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Old 03-21-2004, 07:57 PM   #15
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I did an adventure the other day with a guy that's been in Iraq and has to go back in June. He could care less about the WMD. He has seen first hand what the people of Iraq went thru under the leadership of Saddam and that's good enough for him.

I've posted before that a lady I work withs daughter is home from Iraq. She suffered a knee injury and has had two surgeries. She is getting a medical discharge and is really upset that she can't go back. She felt really good about what America is doing for the Iraqi people and the part she played in it.

A guy in our guild is home from Iraq and has to go back sometime soon. He fully supports what America is doing in Iraq.

It's a shame that the lack of finding WMD only means something to the liberal armchair patriots and means nothing to our soldiers that are actually over there fighting for the cause.

I still say thank God for the right wing talk shows that are willing to talk about the side that the media is so against showing. The opinions of people like Blix and people that don't have a clue mean nothing to me when I see the soldiers cheering Bush and calling in on these talk shows. That's all that matters to me.
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Old 03-21-2004, 08:10 PM   #16
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I don't fucking care how much good we're doing over there. That wasn't the reason Bush gave us for invading Iraq. He claimed, *insisted*, that Iraq had both WMD and WMD programs, and overstated that Iraq was a grave threat to the US. He lied to us.

Do I think Saddam was evil, and should have been removed? Yes

Do I think Iraq is a better place with Saddam gone? Not at the moment. Iraq is a disaster, and will be for years. Rebuilding will take long time.

Do I think Bush lied to incite the world into invading Iraq? Yes

Do I think that the US is safer with Saddam captured? No, because he wasn't a threat to anyone other than his own people. Osama bin Laden is the real threat. Kim in N. Korea is a threat. Saddam wasn't a threat.
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Old 03-21-2004, 08:42 PM   #17
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The verdict is hardly in on this. Give them some more time to dig shit up out of the desert.

http://battle.netgate.net/mig-25/MIG-25.htm

Also consider that Iraq is surrounded by countries that are a) friendly, b) sympathetic, and/or c) quite willing to buy or borrow any embarassing research equipment they may have had.

Regarding aluminum tubing:
http://www.isis-online.org/publicati...inumtubes.html
http://www.thebulletin.org/issues/20...rothstein.html
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Old 03-21-2004, 10:48 PM   #18
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The media is a tricky beast. The reporters, editors, etc., use their opinions and beliefs to put a spin on the story they produce. They can add, omit, or manipulate facts to support whatever story they want to tell.
Brigidd you haven't got a clue. You speak of your third person knowledge of the media because that is what the spin doctors tell you to believe and only to support their politics. And to show exactly how ignorant you are, suppose you were to speak of a brain surgeon and someone had told you that they constantly were having to clamp vessels in all their operations- would you feel like an expert enough to say that Brain surgeons always clamp vessels? No you wouldn't. So until you have a little bit of first hand knowledge of the media how the hell can you speak of them. By the way- I am part of the media and I can assure you that the media does not omit facts. You and your conservative friends want the media to only present your point of the argument when in fact all they seek to portray is the truth so go figure. Your side speaks too many lies and they happen to all be crumbling now.
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Old 03-21-2004, 11:24 PM   #19
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You are doing it again Bumble, personalizing an opposing viewpoint and using insults and name calling to reinforce your point. I am suprised you claim to be part of the media, because frankly, you lack any sense of perspective at all when some one disagrees with you.

Now on to the little story you posted.

"Iraq had been shown to have biological and chemical weapons before, "and there was no record of either destruction or production; there was this nagging question: Do they still have them?" ElBaradei said."

In 1991 the United Nations agreed to give Iraq peace under certain conditions. It has always been up to Iraq to cooperate or face the consequences. If you honestly think it was ok for Iraq to disregard the terms of the peace, then nothing any one says here will change your mind about the war in Iraq.

""I can see that they wanted to have a picture that was either black or white, and we presented a picture that had, you know, gray in it, as well," he said" Blix said.

It really was and is a black and white issue. Iraq accepted these terms 12 years ago and failed to live up to them. With the region being the center of direct attacks against the United States, do you really think we displayed poor judgement by enforcing the terms of surrender?
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Old 03-21-2004, 11:29 PM   #20
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P.S. Before you let the media off the hook, perhaps I could change the title of the article and resubmit it to a rightwing media outlet.

Iraq war wasn't justified, U.N. weapons experts say. Current title.

Inspectors Claim Iraq didnt live up to the terms of surrender from 1991 Gulf War. New and improved right wing media outlet title.
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Old 03-21-2004, 11:37 PM   #21
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Yay, it's Cerden reborn!

Originally Posted by Bumbleroot
Brigidd you haven't got a clue. You speak of your third person knowledge of the media because that is what the spin doctors tell you to believe and only to support their politics.
Really? So you know what I do for a living and you know that I don't ever have any direct interaction with the media? Guess what? I do. I hope your reports are more factually accurate than your post here. Then again, if it's not, you just supported my argument 150%. Thanks!


Originally Posted by Bumbleroot
suppose you were to speak of a brain surgeon and someone had told you that they constantly were having to clamp vessels in all their operations- would you feel like an expert enough to say that Brain surgeons always clamp vessels? No you wouldn't.
You are correct. I wouldn't. But since I do have experience in this area, I'll feel free to go ahead and post about that.


Originally Posted by Bumbleroot
You and your conservative friends want the media to only present your point of the argument when in fact all they seek to portray is the truth so go figure. Your side speaks too many lies and they happen to all be crumbling now.
So now I'm a conservative, eh? I must have missed the post where I stated my affiliation. Hell, I haven't posted on enough of the political discussions here to even give you a good idea of how I vote. More excellent investigative reporting on your part, perhaps?

Where, oh where, did I ever get the idea that the media might twist and malign information based on their own personal views and opinions?

/ponder
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Old 03-22-2004, 04:42 AM   #22
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Despite the lack of WMD, we are here. We the American Soldier, we are here to do our job to obey our orders given to us by the President of the greatest country in the world. We are opening schools, 4 in the last 2 months right outside my camp near Balad, we care for the wounded and sick, enemy combatents and civilians as well.

I am getting tired of hearing people complaining that we should not be here, that it was wrong to attack, where were you last election? Others saying go and kill, go and die, take the oil, give them democracy, stabilize an unstable area. Let me ask you one question... how stable is it for a judeo-christian country to depose a dictator and ocuppy a muslim country in the middle of the muslim world? We get mortated, RPG attacks, a car bomb went off at my front gate today, small arms fire day and night, I get the feeling we are not very welcomed here but yet we persist and will overcome with or without your support...thats what we do.

I know opinions are like assholes and eveyone has one, I do enjoy reading all the bickering back and forth It does provide me some relief out here in the form of a good chuckle here and there when I do get to check the boards.

THIS WAS MY RANT AND MY VENT..........

I do love everyone in here and I do want to thank you for your support even thou your views do differ, you guys do agree on backing the soldier up ( I hope). So here is my little treat to you guys.

I am a Soldier poem


I am a Soldier

Cindye Coates


I am a soldier, a prayer warrior, of the army of my God.

The Lord Jesus Christ is my Commanding Officer.

The Holy Bible is my code of conduct.

Faith, Prayer and the Word are my weapons of warfare.



I have been taught by the Holy Spirit, trained by experience,

tried by adversity, and tested by fire.



I am a volunteer in this army, and I am enlisted for eternity.

I will either retire in this army at the Rapture or die in this Army;

but I will not get out, sell out, be talked out.

I am faithful, capable, and dependable.



If my God needs me, I am there.



I am a soldier, a prayer warrior. I am not a baby.

I do not need to be pampered, petted, primed up, pumped up, picked up, or pepped up.



I am a soldier, a prayer warrior.

No one has to call me, remind me, write me, visit me, entice me, or lure me.



I am a solider, a prayer warrior. I am not a wimp.

I am in place, saluting my King, obeying His orders, praising His name

and building His Kingdom!



I am a soldier, a prayer warrior.

No one has to send me flowers, gifts, food, cards, candy, or give me handouts.

I do not need to be cuddled, cradled, cared for, or catered to.



I am committed.

I cannot have my feelings hurt bad enough to turn me around.

I cannot be discouraged enough to turn me aside.

I cannot lose enough to cause me to quit.
Thanks for reading, have an ARMY day...........
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I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity.
General Dwight D. Eisenhower
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Old 03-22-2004, 05:00 AM   #23
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Excellent Poem Ramesses.....Thanks for sharing it with us.

God Bless America and God Bless our Troops...
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Old 03-22-2004, 05:29 AM   #24
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Really? So you know what I do for a living and you know that I don't ever have any direct interaction with the media? Guess what? I do.
Okay- so what do you do? I can be assured that you have very little knowledge of journalistic practices because you speak of a conspiracy by the media that simply does not exist. So, the fact that I call this ignorance is not merely assumed, it is evident by your words. So before you go spreading lies about what you do with your "DIRECT" interaction with the media- praytell what is that direct interaction? Perhaps running a classified ad or buying a retail ad? Or perhaps you deliver papers? Whatever it is- your obvious lack of knowledge apparent to an insider speaks volumes about your interaction.

And Shardmoon- I can not see a single place where I insulted Brigidd- I said she was ignorant, but that is also based upon the apparent ignorance of her answers. In fact I showed an example more clearly defining how third person knowledge of a vocation is ignorance. I don't see one single place where pointing out ignorance is an insult. Ignorance is a fact of life- just like being a mean person is. If someone is a mean person, calling them mean is not an insult but a reality.
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Old 03-22-2004, 06:48 AM   #25
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because you speak of a conspiracy by the media that simply does not exist.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4562064/

That's just one that got caught.
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