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Old 03-16-2004, 04:15 AM   #26
Ramesses Elliscer
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-Raise the minimum wage.

-affordable healthcare.

-clamp down on the HMO's.

-stop the pork comming out of DC.

-stop the kick backs for ALL politicians.

-end "carrier" politician jobs.

-lower drinking age to 18 <if you old enough to die for your country you are old enough to drink>.

-get a relevant THIRD party in the country <now we get to vote for bad or less bad, would be nice to have a less less bad>.

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Old 03-16-2004, 05:00 AM   #27
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Israel is definately not secular.

If Israel would return to the pre-arab-israeli war borders, then I could support it. But they have spread their borders in the name of self defense and imposed an apartheid state on the residents of the conquered lands.

They regularly demolish homes of anyone remotely related to anyone suspected (not convicted or even tried) of terrorism. In the US, we hear about maybe on in a hundred home demolishings.

Imagine if we demolished the home of Tim McVeigh's parents and brothers and sisters and aunts.

It is possible but only barely for a non-Jew to become a citizen of Israel.

Their laws may be secular, but they are very blatantly prejudiced toward Jews.

I'm all for the existance of Israel, but no more than I am for the existance of Palestine. I understand the creation of Israel in the location of ancient Judea. But, I think that it was handled poorly. We allowed and helped Israel conquer and oppress its neighboring lands in the name of self defense.

I suppose americans have so much sympathy for Israel because we see the palistinians as muslims. About a third of palistinians are christians and suffer the same prejudices as any other palistinian in Israel.

Yes, thats right, Israel is not only anti-muslim, its anti-christian. Of course they are anti-pagan, anti LDS, anti-hindu and anti-aetheist too.

But. Israel is far from being the only nation in the world with religiously prejudicial laws. They are just the only one we allowed to steal nuclear weapons from us.
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Old 03-16-2004, 07:40 AM   #28
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Have you lived in Israel Ghie?
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Old 03-16-2004, 07:58 AM   #29
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>>Does your kid still call Arabs scumbuckets?

Leave my kids out of this you idiot. I drew that pic...

http://www.kaizenx.com/images/arabscum.jpg

I don't see how you can call that pic racist. It's an Arab holding a bucket of scum...thus an Arab scum bucket. It wasn't intended to be racist. If you were offended by it, get over your "offense-sensitive" self.


>>Gee, I wonder why. Who's the "native" tribe around your part of California, Martigan? How's about England give them your land you paid for? That'd put your punk ass out of joint, wouldn't it?

Your comparisons show me you know very little about the Israeli-Arab conflicts and history. I am a native American. I was born here, thus I am native to this place. Is there a problem with that? Most of the Israelis were either born there after they were a nation, or emigrated there from nations that treat Jews as second-class citizens. Many Israelis are from Russia, or other eastern bloc countries. Before Israel became a nation, there were Jews living there...many Jews.

>>Right. They have to be nice to the nation that *invaded* their land, confiscated it and refused to hand it over.

Are you referring to the 6-Day-War when Israel staged a pre-emptive strike against Egypt, Jordan, and Syria? These three countries were ready to strike Israel. Even UN and US intelligence backed assertion that up. The Arab nations are using the argument that Isreal was the aggressor and they were victims. It was mostly mud in their own faces for lack of military strategy. After Israel advanced as far as they did (almost to Damascus on the northern end), they decided to hold the land they acquired as a buffer zone.

>>Jews, by default, have a right to residence and/or citizenship to Israel. Maybe Israel has revoked that in recent years, but that used to be the case.

30% of Israel citizens are Arab. Somewhere like 10% of Israelis are orthodox Jews. Just like non-practicing Christians in this country say that they are Christians, but are only so by association. The Jews as they stand now are Jews by a people, not a religion. Again, Israel is a secular nation. There may be traditional holidays and such, but most see these as just that...traditions.
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Old 03-16-2004, 08:06 AM   #30
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Yikes Martigan, ya tore Ulu up.
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Old 03-16-2004, 08:10 AM   #31
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I don't see how you can call that pic racist. It's an Arab holding a bucket of scum...thus an Arab scum bucket. It wasn't intended to be racist. If you were offended by it, get over your "offense-sensitive" self.
Wasn't intended to be racist my ass. Maybe you should teach your kid what racisim is, or better yet have someone else do it.
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Old 03-16-2004, 08:18 AM   #32
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oh no! dont you dare call me a scum bucket! it will hurt my feelings.
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Old 03-16-2004, 08:21 AM   #33
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-- The Economy
-- Job creation
-- Health Care
-- Social Security
-- The environment
-- Foreign Policy

Not in any particular order
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Old 03-16-2004, 08:28 AM   #34
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Maybe you should teach your kid what racisim is, or better yet have someone else do it.
What the heck is this kid thing? I don't know where you guys got the idea that my kid drew that pic.

Anyway, believe what you will.
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Old 03-16-2004, 05:57 PM   #35
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You posted a pic on the old EMarr EzBoard with the caption that one of your kids drew it. I commented on this, and you promptly edited it and then apologized. I've brought this up before and your reply to it was along the lines of "oh fucking well". Now, you try and tell us a) your kid(s) didn't draw it and b) it has no racist meaning.

Go ahead, backpedal all you want.

So Martigan, no comment on the Resolutions I posted? They're real, unlike your daydreams about Israel. Now let's have a look at one of these blinkered fog-bound theories of yours.

Originally Posted by Martigan
Your comparisons show me you know very little about the Israeli-Arab conflicts and history. I am a native American. I was born here, thus I am native to this place. Is there a problem with that? Most of the Israelis were either born there after they were a nation, or emigrated there from nations that treat Jews as second-class citizens. Many Israelis are from Russia, or other eastern bloc countries. Before Israel became a nation, there were Jews living there...many Jews.
You're a native American, you were born here. Arab Palestinians were born in the Levant too, so were their ancestors for at least two millennia. So I must ask; your point being?

Let me make it crystal for you. If whatever native tribe that once lived in your part of town was promised a homeland by two or more foreign powers with little to no concern for the lifes and harmony of those already there, then said foreign powers drew up some arbitrary lines on a map, then the natives came back and started building communes on your farms, how would you feel?

Don't be your usual evasive self Martigan; answer this one plain and simple.

Israel's policy has been to bring home its scattered tribes. It encourages it. Not once have I argued Israel's policy of this. It's a given.

Originally Posted by Martigan
. After Israel advanced as far as they did (almost to Damascus on the northern end), they decided to hold the land they acquired as a buffer zone.
That's euphemistic writing for occupying foreign land. It's illegal; the UN has *repeatedly* stated it is illegal yet it still goes on. Let's face it, if any other nation were to do this, they'd face censure over it and possible military intervention.
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Old 03-16-2004, 06:23 PM   #36
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Im clueless when it comes to the history of Austrailia but did the whites there ever kill any of the natives? Because it seems wherever us crackers go people get killed and ran off. What is my point? Whites should be the last people to ever point a finger at who should stay and who should go. And once again what is my point? Just drop the whole Israel argument and move on. Martigan's support of Israel is also part of his faith, so it is completely useless to argue.
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Old 03-16-2004, 07:07 PM   #37
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>>So Martigan, no comment on the Resolutions I posted?

The UN cares nothing for Israel. With all the terrorism against Israel, how many resolutions do you see against their foes? The UN will always be anti-Israel. A nuclear bomb could destroy Tel-Aviv and there wouldn't be a resolution against condemning the action.

>>Don't be your usual evasive self Martigan; answer this one plain and simple.

I'm not being evasive.

As for land being taken away. Many Jews bought barren, rocky land in "Palestine" (which by the way has NEVER been a country to begin with, but more of an autonomous entity) from those who lived there. Jews were already emigrating to that area for years before WW2 even started.

Jerusalem has had a Jewish majority for over a century, when they started emigrating there in 1882.

Again, there has NEVER been a state of Palestine. There has been a state of Israel, though...2000 or so years ago. That's one thing Israel has that Palestine never has had.

Israel took the current "occupied" land in 1967 from Jordan and Egypt who were the OCCUPIERS OF THE LAND at the time. If the land was in the hands of these two Arab countries for almost 20 years, why didn't they assist the Palestinian people in setting up a state?

So, you have a territory with no real boundaries, no established sovereign entity, and you take a group of people (who own most of the land anyway) that ALREADY LIVE THERE and assist in setting them up as a nation...I don't see anything wrong with that.

It was the Arab radio that called on the Arabs to leave their properties in the new state of Israel.

YES there were also some unfortunate incidents during that time, but you are talking about the 40's (60 years ago) when people were hardened by war, large-scale atrocities, and the like. I'm not making excuses, I'm just saying that I'm not surprised by some of the stuff that happened.

Here's one atrocity that nobody seems to mention...

UN estimates put the property loses of Jews kicked out of Arab countries after 1948 at 10 times those lost by Palestinian Arabs.
Please take a look at this link. It gives a little history about the many years leading up to WW2...who lived in that area, how the Jews maintained a presence there over the years, etc.

http://www.yahoodi.com/peace/palestine.html

Last edited by Martigan; 03-16-2004 at 07:24 PM.
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Old 03-16-2004, 07:52 PM   #38
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Kanibaal, go and do a search for "Australia, High Court, Mabo". If you think people other than "white" people are exempt from perpetrating land grabs, territorialism and conquest, then you are sadly mistaken.

As for this:

Originally Posted by kanibaal
Martigan's support of Israel is also part of his faith, so it is completely useless to argue.
Baaah! Baaaah!
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Old 03-16-2004, 09:07 PM   #39
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The legalization of marijuana.

Having it decriminalized is better than nothing but I cannot grow it for fear of losing my buttholes virginity if I was to be caught in such a project.

*This reply was big, bold and yellow because it was more important than yours.
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Old 03-17-2004, 12:51 AM   #40
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In no particular order...
  • Homeland security and building/maintaining a strong/capable military force, rather than cutting their budgets and resources out from underneath them
  • Financial responsibility, moreso than tax cuts or increases. I don't have a big problem with paying taxes, as long as you're putting my money to good use and not squandering it, then asking for more.
  • Education, particularly at the developmental/early years level. That's where your foundations for life are set. Also, better pay, benefits, and resources for grade school educators. It's shameful what they're expected to "make do" with for the important (and sometimes difficult) work they do.
That's it. Three main issues. That's not to say there aren't other issues that are important, but those are the foremost in my mind.

I tend to put a little more stock in a candidate's character than the specific issues, but the topic of this thread was "issues" so I'll stick to that.
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Old 03-17-2004, 03:52 AM   #41
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Sorry Ulu but Im not interested in reading through those pages because I have no interest in Austrailia. Guess you cant give a yes or no answer, so I will assume your toothless forefathers killed natives just like my slack jawed forefathers slayed natives here.

Throughout history I would have to say the crackers have slayed the most but since YOU can never be wrong in your own opinion, I guess you win. 99% of the time it is totally useless to even speak with you. I hope you arent like this in person and if you are, I feel for the people around you. I hope Im wrong at profiling you as a 'stubborn know it all'.
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Old 03-17-2004, 03:57 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Kanibaal
Sorry Ulu but Im not interested in reading through those pages because I have no interest in Austrailia. Guess you cant give a yes or no answer, so I will assume your toothless forefathers killed natives just like my slack jawed forefathers slayed natives here.
My toothless forefathers were Greek and they haven't killed natives of any place since on or about the end of WW2 when they killed the Germans who were occupying them.
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Old 03-17-2004, 04:31 AM   #43
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Ahh well the Greeks have done much much worse... they are to blame for all the unbuttoned shirts to expose the chest hair and cheap gold medallions.
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Old 03-17-2004, 06:16 AM   #44
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Correction Ulujain, Jews are a race as well as a religion. We just had this conversation last week at work with a "Jewish guy".

Although this guy no longer practices the Jewish religion and has converted to a Baptist, he said he will always be a Jew as in the race, he just doesn't practice Judaism anymore.
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Old 03-17-2004, 06:30 AM   #45
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The only issues of importance are:

1. Maintain the war on terror
Bush +
Kerry -

2. Continue tax cuts for middle class
Bush ++
Kerry --

3. Strong military
Bush ++
Kerry ---

4. Presidential integrity
Bush +++++
John Fonda err Kerry -----

5. Morality and principal
Bush too many pluses to list
Kerry..does this guy even have a moral stance?

6. Enforce Patriot act
Bush +++
Kerry..abysmal

7. Reduce wasteful government entitlements and programs
Bush ++++
Kerry...cmon..he's in Kennedy's fucking pocket../Puke

These are pretty much the only issues of importance.
What choice is there here?

Jobs are a non issue since the unemployment rate is declining..the only thing left is the extinguish the leftist media hype and widespread panic about "Phantom" job cuts being caused by the Republicans.
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Old 03-17-2004, 08:35 AM   #46
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1. Maintain the war on terror without attacking any target just because daddy said to by making up tales of WMD
Bush ---------
Kerry ++

2. Balance the budget and maintain the tax cuts for the real middle class (those that make less than 200k/year)
Bush -----------------------------------
Kerry +++

3. Strong military
Bush --------- (weakened by negative image of war for the sake of war with iraq)
Kerry --

4. Presidential integrity
Bush ------------- WMD, contracts to everyone in daddy's personal phone book.
Kerry +++ had the guts to stand up and speak out for what he beleived in.

5. Morality and principal
Bush ------- has no clue what morals (killing people is okay if I can convice people we are stomping a source of WMDs to terrorists when I am really just finishing what daddy wasn't allowed to do) are and principal is whatever daddy's buddies pay him to say
Kerry ++ has the guts to stand up and speak out for what he beleived in.

6. Enforce Patriot act by detiorating american civil rights
Bush +++
Kerry..abysmal

Any man which gives up his freedoms for safety is neither safe nor free.

7. Reduce wasteful government entitlements and programs
Bush ----- (66 billion american tax dollars to topple a dictator with no world influence so my friends can make a few hundred million on rebuilding contracts)
Kerry -- all politicians support something someone thinks is wasteful
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Old 03-17-2004, 09:16 AM   #47
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Ghie..did you start this thread for the reasons you indicated in the first post, to get others opinions on what matters in the election or did you just lie like every other liberal and start the thread so you could get some masturbation material going on a slow day? Given the last post I think I know the answer. Make sure you use a towel.

And thanks for the last post anyway..was great humor and fiction..I needed a laugh today.
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Old 03-17-2004, 09:57 AM   #48
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Trith, how is he supposed to know where the post is going to go? You accuse him of sidetracking his own posts. I can't count on the number of dead soldier's hands how many times you have been evasive in directly replying to posts. You obfuscate the intentions as much as anyone. And to show I am not just being hypocritical here- I do it also. In fact, almost all of us do. So instead of being an ass about it why don't you just accept it as it is before your actions come back to haunt you.
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Old 03-17-2004, 10:02 AM   #49
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I can't count on the number of dead soldier's hands how many times you have been evasive in directly replying to posts.
tasteless.
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Old 03-17-2004, 11:11 AM   #50
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Of course my reasons for posting were purely to get the issues.

Since trith decided to further his issues with an innaccurate accounting of who best addressed those issues, I simply pointed out his errors and offered corrections.
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