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Old 03-14-2004, 10:09 AM   #1
chukzombi
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Default The democratic party dying out?

I was watching the CNN special "true believers, behind the Dean campaign" and it brought up many points about the candidates. It also suggested democrats are dwindling and or voting for republican agendas, the lack of strong candidates and their smaler numbers in politics nowadays got me thinking that if Bush wins again this year that the democratic party might be all but through.

Anyone else watch that program? Joe Trippi was hilarious.
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Old 03-14-2004, 11:35 AM   #2
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The democrats are too fractured.

On one hand you have dean - ultra liberal, on the other you have liberman conservative, and in the (well as close to the middle as you can get) edwards. Then there is kerry who is all over the board.

True party power is taking all parts of your party and getting them all lined up for voting time. It is true in recent years the democrats have failed to do that, they lost the 2000 election, and the 2002 elections thus turning over control to the republicans.

Unless they figure out what the hell they are doing they are as good as dead and its time for another part to step up. We need at least 3 viable parties in this country its sad that we only have 2.
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Old 03-14-2004, 12:14 PM   #3
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If you think Dean is liberal you've never heard of Kucinich.
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Old 03-14-2004, 12:16 PM   #4
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I think it's sad that there are any parties. Everyone should go independent, free to choose what they want, and not whats popular.
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Old 03-14-2004, 01:00 PM   #5
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The Dems aren't fractured. In case you haven't been reading the news this week they held a unification forum to gather all of the factions of the party.

Public opinion see the Republicans as being on the extreme ends
http://www.pollingreport.com/congjob.htm

As long as Republicans ally themself to Bush's economic practices they are going to greatly hurt. There is already fraction in the party from Libertarians, protectionists and deficit hawks. The Fiscal conservatives are not in good standing in the party and could easily start dropping out. Reagan's legacy was adding these people to the party. Bush's legacy could be losing them.

As for the two party system, there is always room for third parties. The problem with third parties has been that they tend to form from one of the two parties. Had there been one that formed from both parties that would be a definite strength.
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Old 03-14-2004, 01:44 PM   #6
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The Dems aren't fractured. In case you haven't been reading the news this week they held a unification forum to gather all of the factions of the party.

Public opinion see the Republicans as being on the extreme end
First of all polls are worthless, second of all did you actually read that entire poll? They asked how well democrats were doing and in only a few months the number that thought the democrats were doing an excellent job dropped 10%. down almost 20% from 2 years ago. more and more democrats are losing favor from people , thats why they are voting more republican. Thats why i think the democratic party might be dying out. So nobody else watched that CNN special? Damn, y'all missed a good show.
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Old 03-14-2004, 03:39 PM   #7
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If polls are useless, why are you relying upon one for your conclusion that the Dems are falling apart?
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Old 03-14-2004, 03:58 PM   #8
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Chuk, you state the party is dead. More people identify with Dems because they are not extremists like Bush is. He has taken the Republican party to the right and they are ignoring the middle entirely.You obviously are blinded by your ideology to even see this political reality. He is taking the party down the path of getting whitewashed in the 2004 elections.
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Old 03-14-2004, 04:52 PM   #9
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If polls are useless, why are you relying upon one for your conclusion that the Dems are falling apart?
Becuase i wasnt going by a stupid poll? i was using bumblingfool's own argument against him.
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Old 03-14-2004, 05:25 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Cukstromboli
First of all polls are worthless....
If polls are useless, then why do both parties live and breath by them? Why does the private sector rely upon them so heavily for marketing?

I think you are just full of shit. You certainly don't know what you are talking about.
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Old 03-14-2004, 05:35 PM   #11
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Well thanks for your opinion on my opinion.
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Old 03-14-2004, 05:37 PM   #12
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Chuk, you rely upon a poll to base your argument. You are a liar in this case. You got caught with your hand in the cookie jar and you haven't the balls to admit it.
When it was convenient to you to use a POLL for your argument you did it. However, I didn't see you do anything to refute my point with something other than a poll. So the fact that you have used MY POLL for your argument kind of leaves you with no plausible argument. Can you admit that? Have you got any balls left to be a man enough about that?
Now I will give you a second chance. You can go and refute my argument on your own merits, or you can admit you were wrong.

By the way, polls are not useless, they show an opinion at a period in time. Time changes opinions and many times polls lead that way.
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Old 03-14-2004, 05:43 PM   #13
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bumblefucktard read my first post you dumb retard.

You are the one who brought a fucking poll into the argument, i was commenting on what Joseph Trippi started on the CNN Howard Dean special. it was my opinion that he was right, the democrats are on the way out, they are blending in with the republicans and their agendas becuase they are losing favor with voters on leftwing issues. This country has gotten more conservative and the dems are trying to survive. Look at Kerry, he has sucked up to the republican party to stay in politics, when it was popular to be leftwing he was right there with them. as Richard Nixon said on Kerry, "he seems pretty phoney to me". He isnt the only one.
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Old 03-14-2004, 08:00 PM   #14
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I have to agree with Chuk and Nuzum on this one. The far left liberals are scaring the hell out of the moderate Democrats. You have alot of Christian Democrats out there that are getting nervous about the direction of the Democratic party and what they stand for.

I don't think we'll see the day when the Democratic party will be all but thru, but I think the more the far left push for issues like seperation of Church and State and Gay Marriage and things of that nature, the more Democrats you'll see voting Republican.

Everybody knows about the seperation of Church and State, but the liberals making a big deal out of the Ten Commandments in Court houses and Christmas Trees in Fire Stations or your local parks is pushing more and more Christian Democrats towards the Republican party.
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Old 03-14-2004, 08:12 PM   #15
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The Republicans have decided to go to the far right. Their leaders are all righties. The reason that Bush is not leding in the polls right now is because the moderates align themselves more with the Democrats.

Trippi is wrong and the Democrats proved him wrong. The Democratic party is not as far left as he would like it to be. That is the Green Party. As the Dems have moved to the middle the Reps have moved to the right. That is the exact same mistake the Dems made when Nixon was in office. He was the most deft politician I know of. He moved the Dems towards the left by taking the middle. The rule of politics is the person who gains the middle wins. Always was that. Always will be.
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Old 03-14-2004, 08:23 PM   #16
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So Bush was closer to the middle then Gore?
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Old 03-14-2004, 09:35 PM   #17
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No he wasn't. To begin with Gore got more votes than Bush.

To end with Bush lied about being moderate. He used them on his campaign and then scrapped them during his administration.
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Old 03-14-2004, 10:36 PM   #18
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Still makes your theory flawed.
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Old 03-14-2004, 10:54 PM   #19
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Well then if you conservatives believe that the Dems are dead =)
Then you have already won =)
So why concern yourselves with other issues =)
Just relax, and watch =)
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Old 03-15-2004, 04:55 AM   #20
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Truth is that moderates are the ones who win elections.

Bush beat Gore(kinda barely) by running closer to the middle. He then Immediately careened off to the right and has been there ever since.

Extremely liberal democrats have no real chance. Nor do extremely conservative republicans.

From the other side, whenever the opposing party goes with a more moderate agenda, I guess it can appear as taking their side.

But there are very few politicians who are pure conservative or pure liberal. Even Cheney is pro-gay-marriage, though not to the point he would fight for it, just not against it. (Something to do with having an openly gay daughter).

Personally, I think that anyone who votes based purely because of the (d) or (r) next to the name is an idiot. Know the issues and know where the candidates stand on them. Support the candidates that come closest to your views on the issues.

But in any election there are 35-40% who are hard line party voters and 20-30% who vote on the issues or pure charisma of the candidates. These are the ones who decide the elections
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Old 03-15-2004, 07:45 AM   #21
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Ghie hit the nail on the head.

The Democratic party is not on it's way out no more than the Republicans. It is sheer wishful thinking on the parts of the n30-c0ns that the Democratic party is just going to fold.

Also, everyone should be paying attention to what is going on in Europe, politically. The left just won Spain by a landslide. If we see more left-wing governments rise in Europe it could be an indicator as to what will happen in the November election here in the US.

You can stop drooling over the prospect of a Democratic party collapse now, Chuk.
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Old 03-15-2004, 08:32 AM   #22
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Perhaps the Spanish gov't was one of those that wanted Kerry to win.
Well the people have spoken there aye? Where are all the Spanish Neo-cons? Why don't they like the war either? Oh pox on the rest of the world for not loving the American war games.
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Old 03-15-2004, 09:39 AM   #23
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Personally, I think that anyone who votes based purely because of the (d) or (r) next to the name is an idiot.
Careful you are going to offend the sensitive libs here because that's there current political agenda...fuck politics, national security, and taxes..if you see a (D) you better grab the lever.
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Old 03-15-2004, 09:43 AM   #24
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Here you go Cons, a recent article by Robert Novak.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...ise/index.html

Seems to me like the Dems aren't the ones with the problems according to one of the Republican's biggest advocates.
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Old 03-15-2004, 09:47 AM   #25
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Perhaps the Spanish gov't was one of those that wanted Kerry to win.
You mean the ones who just got voted out of office yesterday?
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