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Old 03-14-2004, 05:54 AM   #1
bumbleroot
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Default Bush is bad on terrorism

Right here shows how much Bush is doing the right things on terrorism....
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/14/in...14KORE.html?hp

From Bush's 2002 state of the union address---
we must prevent the terrorists and regimes who seek chemical, biological or nuclear weapons from threatening the United States and the world.
AND
Pakistan is now cracking down on terror
Considering Bush let the Saudi Royals walk on terrorism, considering him befriending a country that is aiding and abetting terrorism and considering him sidetracking the hunt for Al Qaeda, how is what he is doing tough on terrorists?
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Old 03-14-2004, 03:42 PM   #2
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While Dumb-Ya might be bad for terrorism in foreign lands, he's not doing much about it right here. Our ports of entry and borders are still porous. Too much contraband is getting through. While much of that is either drugs or human cargo, it's not hard at all to get weapons into this country. While the showy security at airports has been highlighted, we still have lots and lots of problems on the highway and raillines and ocean ports. Dumb-Ya has done almost nothing for these locations.
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Old 03-15-2004, 12:33 PM   #3
kanibaal
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hmm you guys say this while Kerry says the threat of terrorism against the USA isnt as bad as Bush makes it out to be. just admit you dont like Bush and move on with your life. no need to spred propaganda or totaly isolate certain points while turning a blind eye to the whole matter.

go ahead and attack and/or spin all you like, I wont be replying.
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Old 03-15-2004, 06:09 PM   #4
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Kerry is right. 9/11 was a tragedy and demanded action. However, put it into perspective. Is it necessary that we have more casualties after 9/11 than we did from 9/11? Is it necessary to have endless years of war because of this? Is war even the way to end terrorism? Is it the end all of all issues? I think that Bush has politicized the fuck out of this but not necessarily put it into perspective.
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Old 03-15-2004, 07:00 PM   #5
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
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Bumble,
So what shall we do? Nobody offers any credible resolution other then, *oust Bush*.

Is that the answer? No.

Why not turn into another failed communist state and build an iron curtain. Huh?
Oh sure you would love that. Untill your a victim sent to alaska in street clothes
and made to break rocks untill you freeze to death. You know, Stalin style.

Revamping these failed ideologies does nothing to help your socialist agenda
bumble. Critical free-thinking should be your next class indeed.

Wine and Whine will not move an agenda. You see what you want to see
and you're not critical enough on yourself to see outside your goal of a prefect
world. There is no such thing as a perfect world. Never has been, never will be.

And socialism and communism are failures. History is recorded for a reason.
No quotes here bud. Only reality.


Bumble,
I wish you luck in life. And I wish you prosperity and happiness through
your dedication in the pursuit of American dream. Just remember that if
you fail, it's your responsibility. Not the Government's.

You must pick up the pieces and move forward when things go wrong.
That is the essence of critical thinking. Free-thinking.

Blaming 9/11 on Bush is elementary of the leftist agenda. Lies, deceit,
and propaganda does not fit your agenda of the future America.




GOD BLESS AMERICA
Zolmaz Zo'Boto (I've never actually failed, but I never quit trying to succeed)
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Old 03-15-2004, 07:27 PM   #6
bumbleroot
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So what shall we do? Nobody offers any credible resolution other then, *oust Bush*.
Zolmaz, people have been offering solutions. Bush and cons are blinded by their own agenda.
The solution begins by realizing that terrorism is not an issue for only Americans to fight. It is a world problem. However, lets not blow it out of proportion and make the terrorists more powerful in doing so.
We could do a lot more with a solid world coalition against terrorism. Iraq is not nor was a threat to the world nor did they have any terrorism coming from it.

A coalition of world forces against terrorism could put real pressure on Saudi Arabia and Pakistan and make those countries crack down on the terrorism within. That is just a start. We could also have a real coalition in fighting all terrorist battles.
I personally don't believe that battles and conventional war is the way to beat terrorism. Terrorism tends to be more guerilla-like and conventional warfare just isn't the way to handle that. A world coalition hitting terrorism on three fronts fixes the problem. The steps are the following...

First- nullify their money
Second- Destroy their breeding methods
Third- Attack them at their heart (family members)

Bush, because he is very simple, believed that acting was the right thing even if it wasn't the right actions. Actions for the sake of actions are a waste of time. The right actions are more valuable than the quantity of actions. That is a point that Bush misses. His refusal to work with the UN on this tells the world that he feels he is planning to fight the World terrorism problem by himself. That is a mistake of great proportions.
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Old 03-15-2004, 08:31 PM   #7
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
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Bumble,
Zolmaz, people have been offering solutions. Bush and cons
are blinded by their own agenda.
Including the left, and dems. Yes?
Or is their Agenda for the last 30 years overpower the current mass of
republicans? No, according to your submission.


The solution begins by realizing that terrorism is not an issue for only
Americans to fight. It is a world problem. However, lets not blow it out of
proportion and make the terrorists more powerful in doing so.
Then why does the liberal media (INCLUDING YOURSELF) make it Bush's problem
every day of the week? Appeasing (MUSLIM) terrorists by the media only breeds more
terrorism in the world. The media wants bloodshed! And an American's death
is worth more in sales then a terrorist. And making people hate/kill Americans
is the agenda of the terrorists!

We could do a lot more with a solid world coalition against terrorism.
Iraq is not nor was a threat to the world nor did they have any terrorism coming from it.
The UN is good at handing out edible flowers. And
maybe some sugar. Find out who funds the UN and you may be surprised.
Every UN intervention always included the USA. Did you know?


A coalition of world forces against terrorism could put real pressure
on Saudi Arabia and Pakistan and make those countries crack down on the
terrorism within. That is just a start.
On paper it may seem plausable,
but not in reality. Who will enforce the crack-down? My god! Not the USA!
Nobody wants the USA to CRACK_DOWN! Everybody wants the USA unarmed!
And the UN cannot crack_down on anybody without the USA.
Get it?


We could also have a real coalition in fighting all terrorist battles.
TERRORIST BATTLES? When have TERRORISTS DECLARED A BATTLE? THEIR FUCKING COWARDS!!!
Now your getting into the absurdity of the brainwashing you've received.


I personally don't believe that battles and conventional war is the way to beat terrorism. Terrorism tends to be more guerilla-like and conventional warfare just isn't the way to handle that. A world coalition hitting terrorism on three fronts fixes the problem. The steps are the following...

First- nullify their money
Second- Destroy their breeding methods
Third- Attack them at their heart (family members)
Ok.
First- we've been taking their money away from them for years.
Second- Destroy their Breeding method? Like birth control? WTH?
Third- Attack innocent people? Women and children? Isn't that what you oppose?


Next,,


Bush, because he is very simple, believed that acting was the right
thing even if it wasn't the right actions. Actions for the sake of actions are a
waste of time. The right actions are more valuable than the quantity of actions.
Simple-1, Actions-5. Bush wins on Actions. Not Pacifism.



That is a point that Bush misses. His refusal to work with the UN on
this tells the world that he feels he is planning to fight the World terrorism
problem by himself.
America can. And Will.
The UN is outdated. Like the horse buggy. The UN is as outdated as the mafia
when they were extorting money from the 5-and-dime stores.



That is a mistake of great proportions.
Ignoring Terrorism
is. I Agree.

But ignoring truth is a bigger mistake. And Ignoring history is a fatal mistake.




GOD BLESS AMERICA
Zolmaz Zo'Boto (It makes me feel like i'm feeling so well by feeling how the left feels about the way they feel about America, can I get a feel around now?)
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Old 03-16-2004, 04:33 AM   #8
bumbleroot
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Then why does the liberal media (INCLUDING YOURSELF) make it Bush's problem
Bush's problem is that he has handled it wrong.

Zolmaz it is obvious from your replies that you are seeing things only in a political vein.

The point I am making is that the war on terror was thrown together hastily and from a few men that had very littel knowledge of terrorism to begin with. Their misunderstanding of the terrorists shows their bad approach to this problem. Think about it in a sports manner- you don't strike out a fastball hitter with fastballs, you use curveballs.
We fall right into what the terrorists want us to do. We bring out tanks and humvees and become sitting ducks for guerillas. Simply taking action is more populare politically but it makes no sense to do it just for politics. The better action is to do it the right way.


Going back to my three steps-
Step one- we have not had a true world coalition stifling terrorists moneys. We can't even begin to do this by ourself.
Step two- Breeding grounds mean the schools and training camps that are teaching kids radical ideas
Step three- I advocate winning the war on terror. Not approaching it like we did in Vietnam. A war is a war and if there is collateral damage to terrorists we need to make it clear to the terrorists that we are in this to win and if that means getting their families thats what it means. It isn't the best political prospect to go after their families, but winning wars isn't about politics. Its about winning.

Bush approached this as if his staff were the only ones that knew how to fight this war. They may know how to fight wars, but they don't know a damned thing about terrorists. That is obvious by their lack of interest in terrorism before 9/11. (they were preoccupied with missile defense). Bush is proving that he is a reactionary and this is not what our country needs to win this war. Taking action is necessary, but that doesn't mean the action is in the manner in which Bush acted. The only thing he has done is act faster and hastily but that doesn't win wars, only battles. Winning this war requires an approach to winning it, that is not being done. I still have not heard Bush ever explain how his plan is going to win this war on terrorism other than him say its going to be a long battle. That is a poor answer.
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Old 03-16-2004, 05:08 AM   #9
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Bush very clearly made Anti-terrorism the number one item on his presidential agenda after 9/11. A politically saavy move, of course.

Since that time he has made terrorism his excuse for everything.

The economy: its all because of 9/11 and we are currently winning wars against the terrorists in afghanistan, iraq, libya surrendured, but we are looking at pursuing terrorists in Iran, North Korea and Syria.

Exporting American Jobs: We caught Sadaam Husein and am sure to have Osama Bin Laden in time for sweeps.

American rights erosion: Only a complete big brother database can keep you safe! Suspected Terrorist are Prisoners of War and not subject to the american judicial system or the US constitution. If we claim you are a terrorist, you have no rights.
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Old 03-16-2004, 07:00 AM   #10
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Turning Iraq into a successful democracy will do tons to fight terrorism and lower oil prices at the same time.
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Old 03-16-2004, 07:28 AM   #11
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Turning Iraq into a successful democracy
I agree.

But it will never happen.

Our success rate at setting up democracies is very low without long occupations. (4-7 years)

Our success rate at setting up democracies in third world nations with multiple factions that do not get along: 0%

oh and top that with the number of democracies in the middle east: 3
Turkey, Lebanon and Israel.

It would take a miracle to create a democracy to last 10 years in Iraq.
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Old 03-16-2004, 08:20 AM   #12
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so lets give up all hope because you have it all figured out? maybe this time it will work and the world just might become a better place.
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Old 03-16-2004, 08:54 AM   #13
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Turning Iraq into a successful democracy will do tons to fight terrorism and lower oil prices at the same time.
I disagree because Iraq wasn't a terrorist threat to begin with. Hussein was a threat to his own people but he had no worldwide agenda. The Saudis are the world threat. That is the breeding ground for terrorists. If you don't believe me you can ask the hijackers on 9/11 who were primarily Saudis.
I have stated this many times. We are fighting the wrong war at the wrong time. I am not opposed to fighting this war, but I am opposed to losing it. We have gone about it wrong and that is the entire point. We do not have enough resources ourselves to fight a war on terrorism in a conventional manner. It is a tremendous waste of time, money and resources. We have to fight it in a manner that is effective. As it is right now we are breeding more terrorists than we are killing. This is the wrong approach entirely and Iraq is doing nothing positive on the war on terror.
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Old 03-16-2004, 08:59 AM   #14
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I'm just saying lets not give Bush credit for something he hasn't done yet.

I think Iraq might make the exception to the rule, but has a better than fair chance of seeing another dictator within a year of our troops leaving.
Personally, I could care less about Iraq, I could have cared less a year ago. I was worried about the US economy and whether I would be able to find a job when I finished my current contract.

I work by contract. So unemployment is a big factor in my life. During the clinton administration the demand for my job was so high that I spent zero time unemployed.

During the Bush Administration I spent about a third of the time unemployed. And when I did find work, I was earning less than I did per week than I was when Clinton was president.

And all of this had squat to do with anything happening in Iraq, well except that Bush is so fucking clueless about what to do to fix our country that he plays smoke and mirrors to make us look at nonexistant problems overseas. He had us believing Sadaam was playing distract the world from our WMD when Bush was playing distract the americans from their econonomic woes.
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Old 03-16-2004, 09:11 AM   #15
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Lebanon
...as a democracy? They are a puppet of Syria. They MUST do what Syria says or else.

I do agree that it will be difficult to set up a democracy, but it will happen. Islam does not support a democratic type of government...so Iraq will have to refrain from using Islam as a basis for government.


Ghie, I'd have to agree that folks made quite a bit of money when there was a demand for devlopers. Since 2000, folks have recognized that these tech companies were over-valued. Companies no longer can throw money at people. They have started acting like real businesses in their hiring and compensation practices. I wish things were like they were Ghie, mainly because I am in the same business, but reality has hit me in the face...and here I am...making less money than I was making in 2000.

You may have to settle for a full-time non-contract (lower paying) job.

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Old 03-16-2004, 09:48 AM   #16
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Companies no longer can throw money at people
You obviously haven't heard of supply and demand. during Cllinton's admin. the companies couldn't find enough workers. Now they can't get rid of enough.
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Old 03-16-2004, 10:19 AM   #17
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and you obviously forgot about the .com crash bumbler. the demand was all for something that was false and was going to be seen for what it was sooner or later.

IT jobs should be seen as modern day factory jobs since all mfg is going to mexico and china. having your microsoft cert is like having a degree from a vocational school. the same wages of a mechanic or a factory worker should be expected. if you take offense to this then Im sorry but sooner or later it will be obvious. if we are in the information age then information jobs are the foundation for everything else. reality is just setting in.
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Old 03-16-2004, 10:22 AM   #18
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Kanibal you are assuming all of those jobs in the 90s were dot com jobs. They were not. Most of them were other types of jobs.
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Old 03-16-2004, 10:27 AM   #19
kanibaal
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and what line of work is martigan and ghie a part of? from their posts it seems to be IT work. after the .com crash IT stuff went to shit.
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Old 03-16-2004, 10:30 AM   #20
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I am/was/kinda am in IT. I've had to settle for a hybrid type of position.

I'm assuming Ghie is doing development work, since he said he was doing contracts.
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Old 03-16-2004, 10:56 AM   #21
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I am in data warehouseing, purely fortune 500 and government work.

The dot-com bubble had little effect on my industry. Very few doing dev work for dot-coms would have had experience or training in what I do.
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