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Old 03-12-2004, 06:47 AM   #1
Veo
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Default WOOHOO Oregon!!

Sorry to say, but Oregon may beat Massachusetts to the gay marriage finish line...


http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/...pcc/index.html
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Old 03-12-2004, 09:11 AM   #2
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Not too worried about this...it will get shut down just like California's did today /CHEER!
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Old 03-12-2004, 09:18 AM   #3
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Sorry, but the law in Oregon is pretty clear about it. Besides that the voters in Oregon have defeated discriminatory measures directed at gays and lesbians in the past.
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Old 03-12-2004, 01:57 PM   #4
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How many threads on this topic do we really need? They all go one of two ways...

1) Person posts "yay suchandso, they've got thier heads on straight and hate gays!" and then those of us who aren't homophobes jump in.

2) Person posts "yay suchandso, they've got thier heads on straight and like equality!" and then those of us who are homophobes jump in.

Wash, Rinse, Repeat.
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Old 03-12-2004, 02:21 PM   #5
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Person posts "yay suchandso, they've got thier heads on straight and hate gays!" and then those of us who aren't homophobes jump in.
Yay kulani is an idiot, nobody hates gays since homosexuality is a choice and not a body type/race/color so please put words back in your own mouth.
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Old 03-12-2004, 02:48 PM   #6
Zolmaz Zo'Boto
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Kulani,
How many threads on this topic do we really need? They all go one of two ways...
Not all. New news is to be debated. Things change constantly so we can
all discuss the changes without having to fish through 600-posts.

Of course thats just my opinion and is not subject to change.




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Old 03-13-2004, 11:02 AM   #7
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No one is being discriminated against. Every single American has the right to go find someone of the opposite sex and then settle down and marry them.
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Old 03-13-2004, 11:12 AM   #8
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I take personal offense at being described as a homophobe. Perhaps you ought to reexamine your use of the word Kulani. If your intent is to provoke then you are succeeding.
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Old 03-13-2004, 01:28 PM   #9
Kulani Autumnwood
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Ok, fine... just for Shardmoon I'll now use the phrase Heterosexist.

Originally Posted by http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/sexual_prejudice.html
Around the same time, heterosexism began to be used as a term analogous to sexism and racism, describing an ideological system that denies, denigrates, and stigmatizes any nonheterosexual form of behavior, identity, relationship, or community (Herek, 1990). Using the term heterosexism highlights the parallels between antigay sentiment and other forms of prejudice, such as racism, antisemitism, and sexism.
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Old 03-13-2004, 11:27 PM   #10
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I defy you to apply that definition to any thing I have posted on this forum. Some of us just disagree with Gay Marriage. Mind boggling as it may seem, its not from a position of hate. Its not from a desire to deny any one their "rights". Its not even for the hell of it. I choose to respect the institution of marriage by defending its commonly applied definition.

Sorry, but that word doesnt apply to me or many others on this board either. Of course this is a common tactic in a debate. Use buzzwords and hotbuttons instead of reason or belief.

Its as poorly thought out as calling some one a liberal or a neocon. Its also pretty lazy. If you truly feel that every one who disagrees with you on this topic is a homophobe then you are kidding yourself.
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Old 03-14-2004, 04:58 AM   #11
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Gay marriage again in the news OMFG how odd. Oregon is doing what Kalifornia should have done right off, saying STOP let the courts decide.

But no these little fudgepackers are more lawless than any other group in society because if they don't get what they want the con somone into justifying their cause and breaking laws.

Its not homophobic, its the law fucktard. There are ways to get what you want, let the voters decide. In Kalifornia's case they put it to a vote and the majority of the people said fuck no. But assclown one riding bareback on little jimmy didnt like that so he threw a tantrum and some fucktard in city office decided ah what the hell I need more votes for my reelection.
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Old 03-14-2004, 05:01 AM   #12
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So you're "defending the institution" of marriage... how about rather than defending it by denying people the opportunity to participate, you defend it by promoting the ideal that marriage is forever?

Marriage isn't some "holy union" anymore... it's a tax break, an all in one legal document, something to do cuz yer drunk off yer ass in Vegas, or a 55 hour publicity stunt. It's not an "institution" it's a damn joke... letting homosexuals in on it isn't going to change it's meaning one bit.

It will simply open it up to a wider audience.
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Old 03-14-2004, 09:23 AM   #13
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I am sorry marriage means so little to you Kulani. It holds more value to me.
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Old 03-14-2004, 09:58 AM   #14
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Its people like Kulani who are making the bans on same sex marriage permanent. Waah waah i want something so ill break the law to get it.
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Old 03-14-2004, 02:04 PM   #15
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Wait where did I say I was in favor of breaking laws? I'm in favor of allowing homosexuals to get married. I am most certainly NOT in favor of the people jumping the gun and doing it before the legality issue has been decided.

But then, I have no control over thier actions, and I fully realize that they're jeopordizing thier own cause (sp error there heh). Quite honestly I think the couples that jumped in and took advantage of legal loopholes in CA, OR, NY and AZ are all doing more harm than good.

But tell me... just because some people choose to break the law does it therefore invalidate the people doing it the legal way? I'm sure during the whole separate but equal racial thing there were blacks who broke the laws of the time... and there were blacks who preferred to fight for the law to be changed but followed them till they were. Does that first set of blacks invalidate the second set?

I'm sure they made it that much more difficult for the second set... just like these people who are jumping the gun to get married now are making it difficult for those of us (*us being used generically to indicate those who approve of allowing homosexuals to get married regardless of our personal sexual inclination, not us indicating I myself am homosexual*) who want the laws to be clearly marked and/or changed depending on jurisdiction beforehand.

And it's not neccessarily that marriage is meaningless to me personally. I'm just pointing out that theres nothing "sacred" about something that ends in divorce over half the time.

Personally I think people need to take some time before getting married and make SURE they're getting married for the right reasons. If you get married to gain legal benifits for a relationship that is already permanent, then it will in all likelyhood be a good marriage. On the other hand, getting married ONLY to get the legal benifits... the marriage will fail. Getting married because you got knocked up (or your partner got knocked up)... the marriage will fail. Getting married because you're afraid of growing old alone... it will fail. Get married as a publicity stunt, it'll fail. Get married to make a relationship permanent... it'll fail.

My husband and I knew our relationship was solid before we ever discussed marriage, and then it took a couple more years of being engaged before we actually got around to getting married. The ceremony was meaningful for us... but only as an affirmation and legal recognization of what we already had.

Therefore, I see no harm in allowing any other couple the same affirmation and regonization of a relationship that they already have. And I am fully aware that it'll be abused by the homosexual community the same way it's being abused every day by the heterosexual community.

In an ideal world, marriage would always be till death do us part. Unfortunately this is NOT an ideal world, and denying marriage to a portion of the society for no other reason than thier sexual inclination is NOT going to make it an ideal world.

It is my opinion that it would be better to concentrate ALL our efforts more on making sure people get married and STAY married, than half of us being so blinded by WHO is getting married that we don't notice marriage is going down the tubes in general.

Entirely possible (even likely) that 3/4ths of that will be misconstrued and used as ammunition in a retalitory attack against me... I just don't express myself well enough heh.
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Old 03-14-2004, 05:32 PM   #16
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Old 03-15-2004, 08:44 AM   #17
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And I am fully aware that it'll be abused by the homosexual community the same way it's being abused every day by the heterosexual community.
Explain to me how a man and a woman getting married are in any way "abusing" marriage. Oh right..you can't. A man and a man trying to get "married" are abusing marriage because they do not qualify for it because they both have the same genitalia...that's the only abuse I see at all, and one that must be stopped.
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Old 03-15-2004, 09:00 AM   #18
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I'm thinking he means abuse as in hoax marriages (a la Britney), marriage/reality game shows (Who wants to marry a millionaire, Joe Millionaire, etc), marriage for political reasons (ie. citizenship).

Stop playing the "they don't qualify for marriage because they have the same genitalia" card, Trith. It's getting old. You don't qualify for the "compassionate, thinking human being" card, so does that me you're illegal?
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Old 03-15-2004, 09:03 AM   #19
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Abuse of marriage... two words...

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Old 03-15-2004, 09:10 AM   #20
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Once again, abused by heteros. Hell, it should be heteros that are banned from marriages. Let the homosexuals have it.
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Old 03-15-2004, 09:16 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Chukstromboli
Waah waah i want something so ill break the law to get it.
Yeah, that Martin Luther King fellow breaking the laws in order to end segregation. He should have been a good black man who knew his place!
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Old 03-15-2004, 12:48 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Trith
Explain to me how a man and a woman getting married are in any way "abusing" marriage.
Well, theres the Brittney Spears/Justin Timberlake 55hour publicity stunt marriage... theres numerous cases of people getting married to get citizinship and then divorcing as soon as the ink is dry on the citizinship papers, there are GAME SHOWS for goodness sake. Tell me how those AREN'T abusing marriage!

Oh now I see Veo saying the same thing heh... well thats what I mean too so I also said it (oh, and I'm a She heh... I know I know my name is a male name in Hawaii or something, but I just chose it cuz it looked cool when the random name generator for EQ popped it out LOL)
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Old 03-15-2004, 02:48 PM   #23
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Quote Kuli "how about rather than defending it by denying people the opportunity to participate, you defend it by promoting the ideal that marriage is forever?"

No one is denied the right to marriage, every single American man has the right to marry an American woman, and vice versa. If gay people want to get married, all for them, but it's going to be to a member of the opposite sex (at least, until that law is changed).
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Old 03-15-2004, 06:35 PM   #24
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Let me get this straight Jelceie, you'd rather see two gay men and two lesbians marry each other in cross-gender pairs, and then effectively cheat on thier "spouses" with each other's "partner" than just them marrying the person they wanted to be with in the first place?

And you somehow think THAT is less damaging to the "Institute Of Marriage" (add bells and trumpets here) than letting the homosexuals get married to thier partner in the first place?
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