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Old 03-05-2004, 08:00 AM   #151
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Ignorance, thy name is Chukzombi...

Can we ban this topic? Just the same stupid merry-go-round we do in 10 million threads: liberals view it as an equal-rights issue, conservatives view it as an opportunity to voice hatred that sadly many Americans still share and we wind up in the same deadlock with logic and reason solely on the side of the liberals and the conservatives clinging desperately to outdated, inaccurate, and hate-filled rhetoric. I'm sure the cons describe it differently, but the end result is the same- stupid, pointless back and forth. There's no useful exchange of ideas here- we've all said the same shit a thousand times.

You know we've gone too far when even I am sick of discussing gay marriage on this board.
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Old 03-05-2004, 08:02 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by Hormadrune
You know we've gone too far when even I am sick of discussing gay marriage on this board.
Then stop reading and responding.. its that simple.
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Old 03-05-2004, 08:09 AM   #153
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liberals and the conservatives clinging desperately to outdated, inaccurate, and hate-filled rhetoric
I've said it before and will say it again little buddy..it's not about hate..it's about common sense and knowing right from wrong.
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Old 03-05-2004, 08:19 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by Wildane
*patiently waits for the usual "u r dense" response*
U R dense!

Originally Posted by Wildane
So then, if it is thought to be morally improper for two folks of the same gender to have sex, regardless of marital status, is it still a right?
What does gender or sexual orientation have to do with rights? If you are going to argue for discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, you are likely to hold the view that homosexuals have no rights when it comes to matrimony.

If you are of the view that sexual orientation has absolutely no bearing upon whether or not a couple is entitled to the curse of "wedded bliss", then you will likely not oppose the right of any human being (regardless of sexual orientation) to marriage.

I do not think that it is immoral for people of the same gender to have sex. The issue is not one of sex, but one of rights. Don't confuse the two issues.

You see, the penis was intended to be used in conjunction with the vagina for the purpose of procreation.
Did you know that the nose was created to rest your eyeglasses on? Your fingers were created so you could pick your nose, and that is why the nostrils of your nose are created in the perfect shape to recieve your finger for the action of nose picking. I bet you didn't know that one, too.

Riding down the Hershey highway is an unnatural act. To put it in EQ terms, you are exploiting, a.k.a. using an item in a way other than what was intended.
Back to the arguments I raised over noncoital sex. So, should we force heterosexual couples to declare they will never engage in anal or oral sex so they can get married too? Should we rip away the right to marriage from those heterosexual couples practicing noncoital sex?
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Old 03-05-2004, 08:32 AM   #155
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Should we rip away the right to marriage from those heterosexual couples practicing noncoital sex?
Nope. One of em has a penis, the other a vagina. Look Luri..no one here is saying to make gay butt sex illegal..we could care less if two men want to abuse their bodies that way..what we want to prevent, and stop is abuse of marriage in the US by extending it to people who do not qualify for it..IE man and man or woman and woman. So stop all your pandering crap about the issues of sex and sexual practices, you are just trying to sidetrack the issue and take scrutiny off the fact that realistically you can't find a reason saying why two men deserve the priveledge of marriage.

This is a super simple issue, made cloudy by tards who can't get it through their heads that marriage is between a man and a woman. If you birth certificate says you were born male, and your partners birth certificate says born female..CONGRADULATIONS..you qualify for marrige. If yours says male, and your partners says male..too bad you lose..go find another hobby.
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Old 03-05-2004, 08:32 AM   #156
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For fun, Glie, please explain us the difference between: A gay males attraction to another male; A bisexuals attraction to either man or woman; A heterosexuals attraction to the opposite sex; A perverts attraction to an animal or child.
The sexual attraction between adults is triggered by pherhormones. Plain and simple. This is true for hetero and homosexual attraction.

Oversimplifying,

Most adult males Produce A,b,c pherhormones and find d,e,f pherhormones appealing.

Most adult women produce d,e,f pherhormones and find a,b,c appealing.

Some men only find a subset of d,e,f (like just d or just e,f) appealing.

Some women only find a subset of a,b,c appealing.

Some men react to a mixed subset of a through f and some react only to a,b,c

Some women ...

Ok simple.

Children do not produce the sexual pherhormones. Any attraction to them is therefore purely psychological. IE a subconscious effort to relive or rebuild a childhood relationship or an aggressive need to feel dominant.

I don't know enough about beastiality to know what causes some people to feel a need to have sex with animals. I suspect pure hedonism in most cases and extremely rare (1 in 100,000 or less) cases of pherhormone confusion.

But while it is completely acceptable to declare cases that occur in 1 in a hundred thousand people as freaks, we cannot justify claiming a genetic condition that occurs in 3-15% (depending on the study, average of all studys results in about 8%) of the population is freakish. It would be equivelant to discriminating against people with red hair.
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Old 03-05-2004, 08:34 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Lurikeen
Back to the arguments I raised over noncoital sex. So, should we force heterosexual couples to declare they will never engage in anal or oral sex so they can get married too? Should we rip away the right to marriage from those heterosexual couples practicing noncoital sex?
This 'one sin fits all' argument is lame. The question is if there is a higher standard of morality between a man and a woman then between a man and a man. You want to say there isnt, I say there is. Lets excuse all defining of action and just call it pleasure then shall we? Who was intended to pleasure / be pleasured by whom? A grand majority say those of the opposite sex. .. this is where the destinction lyes.

You also seem to be calling into question a person's moral base by suggesting that sodomy is sodomy and it doesnt matter what you sodomize. Well then, if there isnt any difference, then we should fully legalize the sodomy of men and animals, correct? You would support that, right?

Trith is right on this.. you do not want to say what your moral take is on issues cause it weakens your stance on the subject of homosexuality. IT forces you to say "I dont give a fuck what people do!! People have the right!"
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Old 03-05-2004, 08:37 AM   #158
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Ghie..I like to think humans are a little above the level on insects when it comes to conscious capabilities and choices, but if you want to knock us down a few pegs on your evolutionary scale then by all means go ahead.

I don't buy sexuality in humans driven by pheramones one bit..sorry. I've known some ugly ass women who smelled divine. Would I screw them..hell no..but they sure smelled purdy.
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Old 03-05-2004, 08:41 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by Ghie
The sexual attraction between adults is triggered by pherhormones. Plain and simple. This is true for hetero and homosexual attraction.
Wait a second! lol! Ghie, I do not think it has been proven that we are reacting to pherhormones.. it is a suggestion and a possibility, but not an absolute. Exmaple: Male one is attracted to photos of blonde women while male two is attracted to bruenettes by sight only. In other words, sexual attraction does not require pherhormones.

Children do not produce the sexual pherhormones. Any attraction to them is therefore purely psychological. IE a subconscious effort to relive or rebuild a childhood relationship or an aggressive need to feel dominant.
Incorrect. Some 'children' (as described by law as being under the age of consent) mature faster then others. A 10 or 11 year old female can begin menstration and thus produce pherhormons. So the arguemnt that "if it produces pherhormones, its natural to desire." doesnt jive.
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Old 03-05-2004, 08:43 AM   #160
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The sexual attraction between adults is triggered by pherhormones. Plain and simple. This is true for hetero and homosexual attraction.
Makes me wonder if Mrs Ghie was the subject of this
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Old 03-05-2004, 08:44 AM   #161
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fact that realistically you can't find a reason saying why two men deserve the priveledge of marriage.
Reason:

We have no more right to tell people they cannot marry than we have to tell them who they can sleep with.

Now, go on and debate whether homosexuality is legal. And it is.

If homosexuality were totally legal and legitimized by complete social acceptance, you would only hear about homosexual acts about one tenth as often as you hear about heterosexual acts. There would be no public view of homosexual life, no one will force you to watch homosexual porn. Your children will not be converted to homosexuality. There will not be a higher chance of being same sex raped. There might even be a lower chance of same-sex rape due to less stigma.

Get over your self centered close minded existence and realize that not everyone thinks like you do, nor should they.
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Old 03-05-2004, 08:46 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by Trith
I've known some ugly ass women who smelled divine. Would I screw them..hell no..but they sure smelled purdy
You can't consciously smell pheremones. So the pretty perfume on ugly lady argument doesn't hold up, besides after enough beers ugly becomes relative.


Originally Posted by Dr. Humbert Doolittle
it doesnt matter what you sodomize. Well then, if there isnt any difference, then we should fully legalize the sodomy of men and animals, correct? You would support that, right?
Wrong. It does matter who and what. It needs to be between consenting adults. Not humans and animals or adults and children as you would like to believe, pervert.
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Old 03-05-2004, 08:49 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by Viral
Wrong. It does matter who and what. It needs to be between consenting adults. Not humans and animals or adults and children as you would like to believe, pervert.
THIS IS IT!! LOL! I now understand that the ONLY.... ONLY thing the left can hang their hat on in regards to sexual perversion is 'Consent'. Thats it. That is absolutely it.

Viral, next time before you eat bacon or a hamburger, you better be DAMN SURE you have that animal's consent, k? K.
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Old 03-05-2004, 09:02 AM   #164
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Ghie..I like to think humans are a little above the level on insects when it comes to conscious capabilities and choices, but if you want to knock us down a few pegs on your evolutionary scale then by all means go ahead.
It is completely true that we can decide not to react to pherhormone induced arousal. We do this every day both consiously (don't cheat on the spouse) and subconsiously (she's only fourteen, must not see her that way). You can even be trained not to see members of the same gender as attractive. But you cannot be forced to see members of the opposite gender as attractive. For people who are purely homosexual (the 8% of americans who feel no attraction whatsoever for members of the opposite sex) There is no alternative to homosexuality other than celibacy. And forced celibacy is definately against the premise of 'pursuit of happiness' on which this country was founded.
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Old 03-05-2004, 09:04 AM   #165
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Rheaton next time you harbor lust in your heart for another man's wife please go here. The next time you spring wood for a child please turn yourself in to these folks. Move along and have a nice day.
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Old 03-05-2004, 09:04 AM   #166
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Ok, fuck right or wrong...blah blah blah. Forget the actual act of sex which is what seems like a lot of people are hung up on. Face it...they're already having sex. That's not the issue.

What does it really matter to you if Bob marries Joe or Sue marries Sally, or Bob marries Sue...etc..???

If other people want to have the institution of marriage, the reality is that it doesn't affect me at all, so why should I be against it?

Why is marriage something you want resevered for heterosexuals?
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Old 03-05-2004, 09:06 AM   #167
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ONLY thing the left can hang their hat on in regards to sexual perversion is 'Consent'. Thats it. That is absolutely it.
Consent is legally all there is in sexual matters.

According to the Supreme Court anyway.
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Old 03-05-2004, 09:07 AM   #168
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SEX:

A quantitative analysis:

By definition sexual reproduction entails the act of sexual intercourse, humans reproduce sexually. This is Natural Reproduction. Sexual parity requires a gender distribution of equal ratios both type. Each instance of sexual reproduction only occurs from intercourse with this precise correspondence of male to female hetero-sexuality. In the unlikely case that the gender distribution ratio is not equal and a homo sexual pairing produced offspring, then that exception (by definition) is 'un-natural'. Shoot the goddam thing.
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Old 03-05-2004, 09:10 AM   #169
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/sigh You still miss the point. Here, I'll see if I can communicate as if I'm addressing a kindergarten class...
Originally Posted by Lurikeen
What does gender or sexual orientation have to do with rights? If you are going to argue for discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, you are likely to hold the view that homosexuals have no rights when it comes to matrimony.
I was not referring to what sexual orientation has to do with rights, but instead using your logic of marriage being deemed a right to help eliminate what was considered "morally improper" behavior. I would say a good number of folks deem homosexuality as "morally improper", marriage does not change this. Therefore, should they have the same right to get married?
Originally Posted by Lurikeen
Did you know that the nose was created to rest your eyeglasses on? Your fingers were created so you could pick your nose, and that is why the nostrils of your nose are created in the perfect shape to recieve your finger for the action of nose picking. I bet you didn't know that one, too.
That's your weakest argument yet, and the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Is that all you have to offer, simpleton? Sex between a man and a woman can result in offspring, which perpetuates our race. Simply put, man was built to have sex with woman. Even you must see that.
Originally Posted by Ghie
Children do not produce the sexual pherhormones. Any attraction to them is therefore purely psychological.
So then, how can you say a man's attraction to another man is not purely psychological?
Originally Posted by Ghie
We have no more right to tell people they cannot marry than we have to tell them who they can sleep with.
We do if it's against the law.
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Old 03-05-2004, 09:15 AM   #170
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If other people want to have the institution of marriage, the reality is that it doesn't affect me at all, so why should I be against it?
Because it glorifies the homosexual lifestyle, and puts the government in a position to force me to tell my children that homosexuality is peechy keen and a wonderful life choice for them just like heterosexuality. Not to mention it extends government benefits, tax breaks, and insurance to individuals who do not legally or physically qualify for them. It's flat out fraud. No thanks.

I would rather the government stay out of the business of teaching "new age" sexual practices to my children..it's hard enough to raise a child with all the crap on public TV, magazines, pop-culture, music etc nowadays, and now you toons on the left want me to call two men "married" in front of a 6 year old boy??? Lets me reiterate..NO FUCKING THANK YOU! How fucking high do you guys have to get before realize this is wrong?
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Old 03-05-2004, 09:16 AM   #171
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And forced celibacy is definately against the premise of 'pursuit of happiness' on which this country was founded.
Just curious..would you say "forcing" a pedophile to stay celibate was a violation of his rights?
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Old 03-05-2004, 09:18 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by Rheaton
The question is if there is a higher standard of morality between a man and a woman then between a man and a man. You want to say there isnt, I say there is. Lets excuse all defining of action and just call it pleasure then shall we? Who was intended to pleasure / be pleasured by whom? A grand majority say those of the opposite sex. .. this is where the destinction lyes.
What you are advocating is a "mob rules" mentality. If the mob says it's wrong, then it is. That is not liberty. That is not justice. A "higher standard" of morality ought to be determined by rights according to the rule of law and equity, not what a large vocal group of people say is equitable.

Telling homosexuals that they haven't a right to matrimony is certainly not dealing fairly or equally with them as a group. The only objection to recognizing their rights is because they are people with sexual desires for others of the same sex. Where is the injustice, in two people of the same sex living together in a loving relationship bound together in marriage, to society? Do you care to explain where there is an injustice?

Originally Posted by Rheaton
You also seem to be calling into question a person's moral base by suggesting that sodomy is sodomy and it doesnt matter what you sodomize. Well then, if there isnt any difference, then we should fully legalize the sodomy of men and animals, correct? You would support that, right?
Rheaton, haven't we been around the block on this issue already? What part of "age of consent", or "consensual sex" do you not understand?

Rape is wrong, whether it is an animal or a human, precisely because consent to the sex wasn't given, or can't be given. Period. Allow that fact to register in your head so you don't continue to bring up such stupid arguments again.
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Old 03-05-2004, 09:28 AM   #173
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So then, how can you say a man's attraction to another man is not purely psychological?
.

First, certainly there are men who are gay because have psychological reasons. The same is true of some women. But, it is far easier to defend the people who are gay who didn't have a choice to be hetero other than pretending to be something they are not and being miserable for it. You can't argue with a genetic condition affecting 8% of the population.

If homosexuality were purely a choice issue it would be easier to argue against. All current laws, making discrimination against homosexuality illegal, were based on the idea that homosexuality was a choice based preference. Solid scientific evidence of it having any genetic connection is only coming to light in the last 3-4 years.

..:: Quoting Ghie ::..
We have no more right to tell people they cannot marry than we have to tell them who they can sleep with.
..:: End Quote ::..
We do if it's against the law
.

The problem is that it isn't expressly against the law everywhere.
However, just because we make a law, doesn't make it our right at the human level. There are tons of laws on the books that we have no right as human beings to enforce. Many of those we have no right under the constitutions of the states and federal governments to even have as laws.
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Old 03-05-2004, 09:33 AM   #174
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Just curious..would you say "forcing" a pedophile to stay celibate was a violation of his rights?
Pedophilia is not pherhormonal. There are no sexual pherhormones that children produce that adults do not. The pedophile can meet his pherhormonal needs with adults.

Pedophilia is a mental disease.
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Old 03-05-2004, 09:39 AM   #175
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what we want to prevent, and stop is abuse of marriage in the US by extending it to people who do not qualify for it..IE man and man or woman and woman.
As compared to the over 50% divorce rate of heterosexual couples, or heterosexual people like Titney Spears that get married as a joke and have it annulled 55 hours later, or heterosexual people that use marriage to gain citizenship?
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