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Old 03-02-2004, 01:08 PM   #76
Rheaton
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And this couldn't be instinct programmed by millions of years (billions, counting the whole history of life) of natural selection. Naw, that'd be too easy. Best make up some ultra-complex entity for the sole purpose of explaining a little tiny thing.
And it could be that aliens from the Alpha sector zap us the moment we are born. These 'brain zaps' are coded information on how we are to behave.

It could be that you do not have any answers... and it could be that you are hoping its anything other then Divine.
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Old 03-02-2004, 01:17 PM   #77
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And this couldn't be instinct programmed by millions of years (billions, counting the whole history of life) of natural selection
Show me proof of kindness, love, giving, mercy, hope, faith in the 'instinct program...' dont have any? Perhaps your could provide us with some theories then.

You see, you, nor your logical theories, can provide absolute proof to these things. What you have to go off of is how these ideas and theories bare witness to your brain. Doesnt mean its absolute now does it? Of course not. Its what you wish to accept.
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Old 03-02-2004, 01:26 PM   #78
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I have proof. You'd be blind not to see it anyway.

Other mammals exhibit caring and nutruing behvior toward their young, for example. You reply: "They aren't humans. Or it's not 'love'. Or God did it anyway. So you're wrong!"

For thousands of years, before Christianity starting staking claims on the past, people still lived, loved, cared, and shared. Your repsonse: "It was still God. They just didn't know it."

I could go on, but you see my point. Anyting I say, you can just say, "God invented it!", and because your god is unfalsifiable, by definition I can't prove you wrong. It's like a tortoise that, instead of countering or dodging attacks, just sits there and ignores them. It's built of this shell of the "sacred" and "holy" that we can't argue about logically, but then you try to put it back into the real (logical) world.

It's like a 5-year olds argument. "I know you are but what am I?!", "I'm rubber your glue", and so forth. You put up nonsensical, illogical, unfalsifiable claims and expect me to take them seriously?
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Old 03-02-2004, 01:28 PM   #79
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You put up nonsensical, illogical, unfalsifiable claims and expect me to take them seriously?
Yes Cause you cannot disprove them

btw.. I know you are but what am I?
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Old 03-02-2004, 01:38 PM   #80
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Ares, you hit the nail on the head. Rheaton (and others here) is arguing the same sort of argument as to what is holding up the Earth from falling into space.

Student: What is holding up the earth?
Teacher: The earth is in orbit around the sun and gravitation keeps it in it's path.
Fanatic: A great and powerful man holds the earth in place, and teacher prove your assertion!
Teacher: Writes out mathmatical formulas in support of his argument.
Student: Ah, I see.
Fanatic: That's not proof! You made that all up.
Teacher: Prove that there is a powerful man holding up the earth.
Fanatic: OK, under the man is an Elephant holding him up.
Teacher: Ah, I see. What holds up the Elephant?
Fanatic: The Elephant is standing on a gigantic turtle.
Teacher: Yes, I see, and what is the Turtle standing on?
Fanatic: Another Turtle, of course!
Student: *snoring*
Teacher: Please prove that the Turtle is the foundation upon which the earth rests.
Fanatic: I didn't say that the Turtle was the foundation! It's turtles all the way down!
Teacher: /boggle
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Old 03-02-2004, 01:40 PM   #81
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Careful Luri..you are straying into the absurd..which is solely Bumble's domain right now.
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Old 03-02-2004, 02:10 PM   #82
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if man has been on the earth for just 300,000 years and every couple had only 2.5 children, there would be 12 graves per dry acre of land. kinda weird that it is so hard to find ancient human remains...
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Old 03-02-2004, 02:39 PM   #83
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Haha, I'd forgotten all about the "turtles all the way down" one, Lurikeen. Except, what Christians argue is "Gods all the way up", since obviously the only thing that could have made one god is a necessarily more powerful god.
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Old 03-03-2004, 05:37 AM   #84
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Originally posted by Kanibaal
if man has been on the earth for just 300,000 years and every couple had only 2.5 children, there would be 12 graves per dry acre of land. kinda weird that it is so hard to find ancient human remains
This is one of the most ridiculous statements of this thread. What are you implying? That humans never existed before the Bible says they did? This ranks right up there with the theory that there weren't any dinosaurs either.......

Talk about being closed minded.....

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Old 03-03-2004, 06:07 AM   #85
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I would like to add that you left out a few key factors in your neat little mathmatical equation:

1) Continental drift
2) decomposition
3) There arent any flags over these grave sites that read "I'm over here! Dig me up !"
4) Louis Leaky -300,000 years is a tad off
That is all.......

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Old 03-03-2004, 03:44 PM   #86
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hah, glad to see you like to assume why I post here. good going champ.

I meant nothing by it other than to bring something up. go do the math sometime and you will see that it works out.

here is another thing... mature stars shrink and our sun is shrinking 5 feet every hour. so 2 million years ago it would have been touching the earth's surface.
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Old 03-04-2004, 12:56 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Kanibaal von Daniken
here is another thing... mature stars shrink and our sun is shrinking 5 feet every hour. so 2 million years ago it would have been touching the earth's surface.
What shit! Seriously, what shit. Kepe 'em coming Serge, you're a riot.
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Old 03-04-2004, 09:58 AM   #88
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WOW Kanibaal, wtf is wrong with you?

I agree with Ulujain.......please entertain some more with your logic!


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Old 03-04-2004, 01:54 PM   #89
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Ulujain, tell me why it is such shit then?

Dredblade, keep eating what your professors are feeding you, it suits you well monkey.
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Old 03-05-2004, 12:32 AM   #90
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Why is it shit, Serge? Easy, it has no factual basis, you know, like the Tooth Fairy and the Great Pumpkin. We have had satellites, such as SOHO, examining the sun for a while now. It has been observed one way or another by millions of people. This shrinkage of yours doesn't exist.

Feel free to go to NASA's webpage, look up SOHO, look up Hipparcos, look up Chandra. I know you think it's "professors feeding you", so, I'm probably wasting my time.
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Old 03-05-2004, 07:23 AM   #91
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Dredblade, keep eating what your professors are feeding you, it suits you well monkey.
If I ate everything my professors fed me I would be as ignorant as you are.

Now put down that National Inquirer you've been reading and wipe the feces off your face with it.

Have a nice day.

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Old 03-05-2004, 10:37 AM   #92
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Goodness.

Careful Luri..you are straying into the absurd..which is solely Bumble's domain right now.
No, that's the domain of theists. The turtle explanation isn't that far off from what most thumpers confess.

Yes Cause you cannot disprove them
Nor can you prove yours.

The difference is most non-theists that believe in scientific principles (evolution, big bang, etc.) do so with a considerable grain of salt. We understand they are theories and that are only as good as they are provable - so, we strive to find out the truth.

Theists on the other hand fight that constant state of re-evaluation.

Anytime a non-theist revises his theories he says "Great, we're a step closer."

Anytime a theist revises his beliefs (yanno, stuff like blacks being inferior and god's chosen slave race, lightning being an act of vengeance, water becoming wine, poofing into existence, a god that is omnipotent & benevolent but allows evil to exist) he says "Well, whatever we believed before doesn't matter, God has given us a revelation! Our bible doesn't say anything specific regarding that, so it's ok!"

Science and our understanding of our universe evolves - it grows, revises itself and expands continually.

That we do not or cannot prove something now does not preclude us from eventually doing so. That's the essence and pursuit of science.
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Old 03-05-2004, 01:52 PM   #93
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Ulujain, I guess I hit a nerve since you are using my real name but whatever.

Ok here is something simple to observe. the moon is moving 2 feet from the earth every year... so if the universe is billions of years old it would have been clear across the galaxy by now.

volcanoes create 1 mile of juvenile water a year. 340 million miles of water make up the amount we have now. so 340 million years ago there wouldnt have been any water on earth but that puts us in the middle of the 'fish age' according to evolution.

If you feel I post the things I do because you think Im close minded, then you are fooling yourself. Just because I believe in creation and you dont doesnt make me think you are close minded, so back off.

I merely say the things I do to get people to think some. I really dont care if they agree or disagree with me.
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Old 03-05-2004, 01:56 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Kanibaal
Ulujain, I guess I hit a nerve since you are using my real name but whatever.
I'm using it because I can. My real name is Peter; have at it.

As for the rest of your von Daniken trash; facts. Let's see some facts. Where are you getting this stuff from?
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Old 03-05-2004, 02:02 PM   #95
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Peter, Im getting it all from God.
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Old 03-05-2004, 02:08 PM   #96
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Here is something for you to think about, Kanibaal.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?art...88EEDF&catID=2
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Old 03-05-2004, 02:31 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Kanibaal
Peter, Im getting it all from God.
Gotcha.
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Old 03-06-2004, 06:57 PM   #98
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am pretty sure I wrote that we recieve praise or condemnation for our choices. Did you miss that?
Yes in fact I did, my mistake.


When I spoke of truly loving, Lurikeen, I was speaking of loving sacrificially.

Also, when I spoke of loving sacrifically or truly loving, I did not say it was impossible, just very very difficult. It is hard for me as a Christian to love sacrifically on a daily basis, I know it to be harder for those around me that are non-believers.

Why? I have something other than myself to support me. Other than the humans around me (even those I love) who are not perfect and will hurt me and will fail me.

In truth, as humans, we cannot even rely on ourselves! If you think I am wrong, then tell me every decision that you ever made in your life was the right one! I am positive that isn't so!

I am sure there are lots of people who live "good" lives and do "good" deeds and are "excellent" people. But "good" or even "excellent" in our eyes is not enough in God's eyes, hence the need for some type of absolution of our sin. I chose Jesus. Others believe and choose differently. Their choice.

See what I am getting at?

Point is that it isn't impossible to live a life that is Christ-like, but it sure as heck is hard, and triply so if you do not have Christ as your God.

***Btw, for anyone who does not know what loving sacrifically means - The biblical ideal of Christian love could be defined as: A commitment to give of one's self in every area for the good of another. There are four major areas: sacrifice, forgiveness, discipline, and emotional.

In other words, we are to love others, as Jesus loved us. To the point of death on a cross maybe even. Still think that most people can do this? or "good" people? Or maybe "excellent" people? No, I think only those who have true faith in God can do this. And maybe the occasional exceptional person. It isn't impossible, just highly unlikely you will get this kind of love from anyone on a regular basis if they are not a believer. You are free to disagree.***

Rheaton - You might be thinking of Romans 1:20 and 2:15? 1:20 in full context is pretty explicit that God has revealed himself through all of creation (you know like the fact that life even exists), and that mankind has basically denied him even.
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Old 03-06-2004, 06:59 PM   #99
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P.S. If you had to ask someone what one human in the world loves them in this sense - the biblical sense - most would say their Mother.

And you would also find an awful lot of pain when that did not occur for whatever reason.
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Old 03-06-2004, 09:01 PM   #100
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A short note, the moon has not been a satellite of the planet Earth from year dot. So it is unlikely to have been moving away from the Earth at 2 feet a year continuously for x billion years since Earth began. In any case, to orbit Earth a body must be falling toward the Earth and accelerating past the Earth's curvature at the same rate, a centripetal motion does precisely that (a constant change in direction = a constant change in velocity, since velocity is a vector of travel over time in a given direction). From what I have seen of the scouring of our moon's surface, on its dark side, it has had a collision with a major celestial body (perhaps Earth itself, my friends) and that may very well be the event which wiped out the dinos, moved the poles, and seperated the Super-continent Gondwanaland into the continents of Earth we know today. As for juvenile water never heard of it. Water exists in 3 states (gas, liquid, solid). Planet Earth accretes a lot of water (in the form of ice) from space. We just happen to occupy the right orbital path in the sun's radial mass spectrum gradient (each atomic mass has a specific gravity) to soak up stuff we want down here.
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