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Old 03-02-2004, 03:58 PM   #101
Cerulean
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Can't have it both ways. If you do not believe in a soul, then you have stated you are atheistic. If you are going to say you are unsure of a "God" then you must say you are unsure of a "soul".
How presumptuous.

Being atheist has nothing to do with believing (or not believing) in a soul.

And, to say I'm unsure of God says nothing about my certainty regarding the non-existence of a soul.

I'm an agnostic regarding the existence of a god in general.

If you want to split hairs: I'm an atheist when it comes to the Christian God but an agnostic when it comes to the possibility of some other as-yet-undiscovered god/force/being/entity.

Hell, maybe souls do exist, I could be wrong, but that doesn't necessitate the existence of a God. One does not require the other.
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Old 03-02-2004, 04:09 PM   #102
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As I have posted before on another thread.

If you don't believe in God you better be right.



GOD BLESS AMERICA
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Old 03-02-2004, 04:18 PM   #103
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And as to the movie itself... the cinematography, indeed, was incredible. Caleb Deschanel has proven himself an incredible talent behind the lens.

The acting was adequate. This movie wasn't about character arc or social musings - it was simply the last 12 hours of Christ's life, as interpreted by Gibson & his writers. Caviezel had few lines of dialogue and even fewer emotions: pain, solemnity, excruciating pain, stoicism, gut-wrenching intolerable pain, a small smile and more skin-peeling-bone-revealing-abhorrent pain.

The directing was good, well above average. Gibson showed the brutal torture without coming off hackneyed, comical or cheesy - believe me, it's easy to mistakenly make the most brutal scenes come off campy. The audience I shared the experience with audibly flinched with nearly every blow and gasped when the brutal Roman torturers gleefully applied more.

All-in-all, you have to take it with a grain of salt. No one can truly know what happened that fateful day 2000 years ago, if it indeed did happen. Even experts will disagree: using Aramiac is much debated in histoic accuracy. The best we can do is interpret it as best we can - and hope we faithfully convey the message even though the words we use may not be perfect. I think this is perhaps the best 'Christian' film ever made - far better than the Heston-in-a-toga-let's-be-overly-nostalgic stuff.
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Old 03-02-2004, 04:34 PM   #104
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No where in Genesis (or elsewhere in the bible) is it even suggested that people only had knowledge of good prior to the "fall
Wrong. Man was created in the image of God...perfect..until we screwed up, which is human nature.
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Old 03-02-2004, 04:35 PM   #105
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Cerulean,
I wouldn't discount the violence of the act so quickly by saying "grain of salt".
The bible describes that Jesus was unrecognizable due to the brutality.
The romans were not merciful in their deeds or war.

Another consideration would be understanding the brutality of people
during that time period. Some of it can be seen today in videos you
can download of people being stoned to death in Iran. And yes you would flinch
as I did watching the real thing.

It's driving me crazy that I don't have time yet to see this movie.



GOD BLESS AMERICA
Zolmaz Zo'Boto (Fate can be a wonderfull thing)
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Old 03-02-2004, 04:56 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Zolmaz
As I have posted before on another thread.

If you don't believe in God you better be right.
And if you have believed in God and it turns out he's a load of bollocks, then more fool you for living in fear of Hell all your life. Or just plain living in fear.
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Old 03-02-2004, 06:50 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Trith
Wrong. Man was created in the image of God...perfect..until we screwed up, which is human nature.
Trith, do you actually think first before you write? If humans were created to be perfect, then they would have been incapable of making mistakes, period. According to your bible, humans made a pretty large mistake so they couldn't have been made perfect. Looks like yet another "oops" by God recorded in the bible.
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Old 03-02-2004, 07:56 PM   #108
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Ulujain,
And if you have believed in God and it turns out he's a load of bollocks, then more fool you for living in fear of Hell all your life. Or just plain living in fear.
I don't live in fear my friend. I live in honesty and honor. As with business,
integrity.

I fear nothing. Not even death, young one.
Your fears do not portray my life.
Sorry bub.



Who is the fool?, one who believes? or one who hastes to define belief?



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Old 03-02-2004, 08:09 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Zolmaz
I live in honesty and honor
I thought you lived in the bad neighborhood of a trailer park.
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Old 03-02-2004, 08:12 PM   #110
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thing is, if we all lived by the slogan of "will shall never pay for our deeds, fuck all" then we deserve to loose our rights.

freedom can only exist when people govern themselves with honor, be it christian, boshido, or any code that teachs one to live healthy, and in harmony with the people around them.

trust me, you will like peace more than you would like everyone doing what they want because there is no divine retrobution.

(someone pisses on your flower garden because they feel like it, someone busting your jaw for the hell of it, there may be laws but you still get the punch in the face)
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Old 03-02-2004, 08:43 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Dotra
thing is, if we all lived by the slogan of "will shall never pay for our deeds, fuck all" then we deserve to loose our rights.
That implies a belief in karma. Karma is a man-made theory. It has no factual basis. It is a superstitious belief system.

Once again, people flail blindly in the night for their prop.

People can live by a good moral and ethical belief without relying on hocus-pocus such as karma or the beatitudes of Jesus.
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Old 03-02-2004, 11:15 PM   #112
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without a moral bases we are free to say what is wrong and right... do you want someone like me making laws? i think not!
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Old 03-03-2004, 09:33 AM   #113
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At the risk of sounding like a loony, morals are indeed relative. This is only because they are defined by human beings, and as such, everyone can have their own personal definition. The morals we live by are those that, as a group/species, we have agreed upon to be a general set of morals. Anything not explicitly defined as such, is purely open to interpretation.
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Old 03-04-2004, 07:24 AM   #114
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As I have posted before on another thread.

If you don't believe in God you better be right.
Only if you turn out to be wrong, and God turns out to be something along the lines of the Christian God.
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Old 03-04-2004, 09:03 AM   #115
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I believe in God. I love God. I pray to God every night to save me from his followers =P
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Old 03-04-2004, 09:17 AM   #116
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LOL, Everclear!

That reminds me of the scene in "Patton" where Patton (played by George C. Scott) is asked if he reads the bible. His answer, "Every God damned day!"
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Old 03-04-2004, 01:56 PM   #117
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woohoo! lets all post cheesy bumper sticker quotes like everclear.
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Old 03-05-2004, 01:04 AM   #118
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I'm pretty sure I did it first.

Edit: But it was in the other thread.
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Old 03-07-2004, 03:48 PM   #119
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$212,034,000 And Counting..

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/...fthechrist.htm

13 days and counting.

How about them Hollyweirds huh>? Slap in the face.




GOD BLESS AMERICA
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Old 03-08-2004, 04:36 AM   #120
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At the risk of sounding like a loony, morals are indeed relative. This is only because they are defined by human beings, and as such, everyone can have their own personal definition. The morals we live by are those that, as a group/species, we have agreed upon to be a general set of morals. Anything not explicitly defined as such, is purely open to interpretation.
Well said...
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Old 03-08-2004, 06:31 AM   #121
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Default If I go Crazy then will you still call me.....GoD?

I think that perhaps its all a great Conspiracy to get more people to buy gates of Discord, In fact I plan on handing out tickets at the theater when I do go with my wife with 2 copys of GoD on me. At the end of the movie I will draw two tickets from my hat and give them to the winner. I will also tell them the search is over my friends. You have just found GoD for free, its a free gift that I so unselfishly give to you so that you may prosper on in life and find new meaning to your existence. Now go and buy the rest of the holy books of GoD or just buy them all in "Evolution" and enjoy your new life with GoD.
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Old 03-08-2004, 07:01 AM   #122
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Anyone laugh at what Bleemus posted? Too much EQ and not enough time outside...
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Old 03-08-2004, 05:19 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Felessan
Well said...
What you don't realize is that I'm what they call a "moral relativist", which some people think is an insult. Why? Because the misconception is that, if we were to adopt relative morals as opposed to absolute morals, murderers would be able to get off the hook by saying, "I don't think it's immoral". The reality of it, is that morals always have been relative. Just look at variations between countries, religions, and various other societies. The only "absolute" morals arise out of inherent selfishness (i.e. taboo on murder, cannibalism, theft) that are actually inherent to animals other than humans as well. Everything else is just a matter of what sort of memes you have floating around in your brain.

Somehow this point doesn't sink in to most people.
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Old 03-08-2004, 06:41 PM   #124
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Well it has made over 212 million so far. It is projected to be in the top 10 of most money made. Guess they will have to make a prequel or sequel or something since it seems Hollywood is totally wrong about thinking Americans only want to watch the stuff they make now.
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