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Old 10-01-2009, 07:51 AM   #1
Drysdale
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Default Smoking Nazis are Slip Sliding along down that slope!

I was slightly sympathetic to the plaintiff until I saw that she's trying to get classified as disabled under the ADA.

Screw her for the hypochondriac bitch she really is. I hope she gets hit by a Pall Mall truck.

As a side note, I'd like to hear from a disinterested party whether or not they could smell smoke in that house.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...d.3ed620b.html
In an age when smoking has been outlawed in most public places – government buildings, bars and pool halls – a person's home is one of the few places you can puff in peace.
Until now.
A Dallas woman has filed a lawsuit seeking six figures from a former neighbor and landlord for damage she says was caused by cigarette smoke wafting through adjoining walls of her high-end townhome.
Also Online
Link: Read more on Texas Fair Housing Act
Health-related coverage
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"Smoking is not a right, it's a privilege," said Chris Daniel, a retired nurse. "I'm sorry that people smoke. I think it's foolish, but when it comes into my house and hurts my health and my daughter's health and our belongings, it's a different issue."
The case is being watched by townhouse industry groups across the area.
A manager and attorney for Estancia Townhomes, a 52-building community near Prestonwood Country Club in North Dallas, said it's unlikely the Daniels sustained any smoke damage. There is a solid, two-hour fire wall from the foundation to the roof between each of the homes.
And even if some smell did seep through, the Daniels renewed their lease at Estancia – where smoking is permitted – six months after they say the problem began.
"Why do people file lawsuits?" asked Ginger Tye, an attorney representing the property managers and owners. "They're asking for money damages."
The next-door smoker, Rebecca Williams, declined comment.
Chris Daniel and her daughter, Cary, say in the lawsuit that a construction defect is allowing smoke to migrate between the units.
After a year of stinging eyes, breathing difficulty and sinus pain, they moved out of Estancia and into the Homewood Suites in Addison. Last week, movers wearing surgical masks loaded trucks with their belongings.
The Daniels said furniture will need to be reupholstered, artwork restored and closets full of clothing dry cleaned. The bills are still piling up.
"There's nothing in our home that was ready made. I picked out fabrics, everything was custom made and everything was spotless," said Chris Daniel.
"It's not like our worldly goods are the most important things in our life, but you know what? I don't expect them to be damaged."
Some multifamily communities have followed the lead of hotels and car-rental companies – designating nonsmoking rooms or buildings. The Glass House, a 21-story high-rise in Dallas' Uptown, markets itself as a smoke-free property.

Unfamiliar territory

Kathy Carlton, director of government affairs for the Apartment Association of Greater Dallas, said she's never heard of a case such as the one filed by the Daniels.
She said most people who are highly sensitive to cigarette smoke don't move into a community or a building where it's allowed.
"Generally, this stuff is the property owners' prerogative, and people either live by the rules or move on down the street," Carlton said.
"If you have a pet, you look for a place that takes pets. If you hate pets, you look for a place that doesn't allow them. People have choices."
The Daniels said the freedom to choose cuts both ways.
Yes, people may be entitled to smoke in their home – but others are equally entitled to live in a clean and healthy environment.
The right to swing your fist, they said, ends when it meets my nose.
"This lease says I have a right to a habitable place, this lease says I have a right to quiet enjoyment, this lease says I have a right to safe living," said Chris Daniel, referring to court documents.
"And I did have that ... until someone moved in who did not care about her neighbor."
The Daniels lived at Estancia for four years. Today, after a final walkthrough of their home with an attorney and managers, they will hand over the keys.
Nicole Lott, property director at Estancia, said it's been a long year of acrimony.
Managers replaced air filters repeatedly, installed sealant-type electrical plates and – at the Daniels' request – used an industrial-grade roofing sealant to caulk pipes under their kitchen cabinet.
When that didn't work, managers tried to negotiate a move for both tenants within the community.

Restraining order

Williams, the smoker, finally moved to another unit in June after a judge issued a temporary restraining order forbidding her from lighting up in her home.
"We've done more for these people than we've ever done for anyone else," Lott said. "I don't think it's possible to satisfy them."
Chris Daniel also filed a complaint under the Texas Fair Housing Act, alleging that her sensitivity to cigarette smoke qualifies her for protection set aside for people with disabilities.
The complaint is being reviewed by Dallas' Fair Housing Office.
First Assistant City Attorney Chris Bowers said a garden-variety reaction to cigarette smoke – puffy eyes, runny nose, coughing – would probably not meet the standard set by the law, a severe limitation of a major life activity.
"Not just anybody will be able to say smoking has that effect, and that's one of the things our Fair Housing Office will investigate," he said.
"It's safe to say most people do not suffer the degree of impairment this person alleges from cigarette smoke."
Chris Daniel has been treated by an allergist and an internist, according to court records, and was prescribed two inhalers.
Dr. Barbara Stark Baxter, a clinical associate professor at UT Southwestern Medical Center, wrote that Daniels "qualifies as disabled under the Texas Fair Housing Act and the Americans with Disabilities Act."
Her attorney, John Clark Long V, said his clients were essentially driven from their home by cigarette smoke.
He illustrated the case this way:
"It was like living life in an ashtray you can never clean."
AT A GLANCE: WHAT THEY SAID

The plaintiff

Cigarette smoke from a next-door townhome prevented her from breathing and ruined a life's worth of belongings.

The defendants
Smoking is not prohibited in the complex, and construction standards prevent the migration of smoke from one unit to another.

The Dallas city attorney's office

The complaint is under review by the city's Fair Housing Office. To qualify for protection, the cigarette smoke would have to impair a major life function – such as breathing.

The physician

The plaintiff qualifies as disabled under the Texas Fair Housing Act and the Americans with Disabilities Act.

The Apartment Association of Greater Dallas
Rules regarding smoking are the prerogative of individual property owners and managers.
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Last edited by Drysdale; 10-01-2009 at 09:15 AM.
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Old 10-01-2009, 08:51 AM   #2
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Unbelievable. Pollution in Dallas is far more potent then any amount of cigarette smoke that could make it through a firewall. This is a blatant frivolous <sp?> lawsuit. This person should be locked up for trying to steal money "legally" and she should share a smoke filled cell with her money grubbing lawyer.
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Old 10-01-2009, 10:52 AM   #3
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I totally understand cafes/restaurants...... even bars to an extent but now they are getting rediculous, if they give this woman any money they should all be disbarred.
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Old 10-01-2009, 04:21 PM   #4
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"Smoking is not a right, its a privilege...."

This mindset is getting more and more interesting everyday. We can glean from the constitution a woman's right to an abortion. If we can squint hard enough while reading the constitution, we can kinda-sort start to make out...like those old 3-D art posters...a person's right to be gay married. But what about "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness"? Completely subjective to if you are infringing on anothers right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness... And if there is something about their objection by another, well then... and on and on we go...

I worked in downtown OKC for several years. Below our building there was a parking garage that held some several hundred vehicles. EVERYDAY this parking garage stayed polluted. Not only were there cars always coming and going, the ventilation was horrible. The constant stench of carbon monoxide filled that space from 7:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. Mon-Fri.

In the dead cold of winter several would gather in a remote corner of the parking garage to smoke. This was at least 75 - 100 feet from any entrance into the building. One day, as a complete surprise to us all, there was a sign in our corner (our clean corner..no butts laying around on the ground)..that read "SMOKING IN THIS PARKING GARAGE IS FORBIDDEN. Building Management".

If you are in traffic during the week, and happen tohave a window down, you sir or ma'am, will ingest more then 1000 times the harmful toxins then if you live with a smoker who smokes inside the house and car regularly.
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Old 10-01-2009, 05:42 PM   #5
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Very true Rheaton.


What no one realized, despite how stupidly obvious it is: smoking causes cancer: because you put the cigarette up to your lips and take a deep pull of carbon monoxide, tar, and even some amonia along with a host of other chemicals straight into your lungs without passing go.

If you're in a shed with poor ventilation and someone else is smoking, it's almost as bad.

After about 20-40 years you will probably suffer painful and crippling diseases and possibly even die.


On the other hand...suck on a tail pipe of a running car and you will die in minutes.

Park a car in your living room and run the engine and you'll be dead by morning.

Here's another fun filled fact: Psychosomatic illness has real symptoms. That's right: they are not imagining the shortness of breath, the coughing, wheezing, the hives, the chest pains, or the dizzy spells. They are all real.

It's only the cause that's in question.

If the car 10 feet away that would KILL you in minutes doesn't bother you...then good odds that the cigarette that ALMOST certainly will cause major health problems in a couple decades probably isn't the chief culprit.

The workmen in masks made me laugh. I'm positive that conversation went like this:

"Holy shit boss! Our new client lives next to a smoker! A goddamn smoker! Right next door! Why in gods name did you accept this job? How can I ask my men to go in there?! Those men have families for Gods sake!"
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Old 10-01-2009, 05:48 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Axgar View Post
I totally understand cafes/restaurants...... even bars to an extent but now they are getting rediculous, if they give this woman any money they should all be disbarred.
Government buildings yes.

Bars and restaurants: should be up to the owner of the bar or restaurant. Some people don't like looking at titties either...so don't go to the strip club. Personally I think the smell of nail polish is one of the most foul things I've ever encountered.


But rather than lobby for all nail salons to close or use only acrylic paint I've taken the novel and radical approach of simply not going to get my nails done. (probably not the only reason for this choice).

The only reason it's a law is because of seeping gash jackasses who cry "But my fwiends all go to those bars! I want to come too!"

So everyone else has to stop. It's like the nerdy kid whose mom talks your mom into letting him hang out with you, even though he's too much of a pussy for you and your friends to do anything fun with him in tow.
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Old 10-01-2009, 05:56 PM   #7
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Oh bars yea should be up to the owner, eating places nope fuck people they are to rude not to smoke there and ruin other peopls meals then make it illegal then noone has to worry about it, I smoke dude, quit for a while started again rinse and repeat, the damn things, but if that lady gets hundreds of thousands of dollars I think I might go ahead and sue to.......what the hell it is the new American way.


You see the government has to either eat their cake or have it, its getting tiring seeing them allow tobacco companies or people whom allow smoking to get sued WHILE they subsidize tobacco farmers, they allow smoking yet allow people to sue people for smoking........... seems a bit like bullshit to me.
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Old 10-01-2009, 07:54 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Axgar View Post
Oh bars yea should be up to the owner, eating places nope fuck people they are to rude not to smoke there and ruin other peopls meals then make it illegal then noone has to worry about it,
It is rude. Very rude. Sometimes even if I'm sitting outside and a friend comes over with food I'll put my cigarette out, or at least move farther away so as not to ruin their meal, even if they are the ones who came to sit by me and the smoke was already lit.

But when you own a building you should get to make the rules within reason. It's rude to throw peanuts on the ground (and they actually do contain known allergens), but some restaurants not only allow it but encourage it. There's one chain where the gimmick is that the waiters are rude and insult you. Not my cup of tea, but apparently they do good business.

I choose not to eat there. A solid and easy solution.

Voting with your wallet is democracy. Making a law to force people to be the way you want them to be is not.
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Old 10-02-2009, 07:16 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by AjTaliesen View Post
Government buildings yes.

Bars and restaurants: should be up to the owner of the bar or restaurant. Some people don't like looking at titties either...so don't go to the strip club. Personally I think the smell of nail polish is one of the most foul things I've ever encountered.
Totally agree here. Personally, I hate the smell of smoke, and don't want to be around smokers, but, I can easilly choose where I will and will not go on that basis. Also agree on the nail polish, my poor girlfriend has to do her nails either outside or upstairs with the windows open, gives me a terrible headache to be around that stuff.
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Old 10-02-2009, 08:28 AM   #10
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I wont argue the point ya make about the owner should beable to make the rules but the problem is this....... people have the right to eat to, and eating is neccessary...... Id say let truck stops have smoking.....most truckers smoke, I beleive they may have a smoking room anyway but Im not sure, but places like hell I dunno any steak house..... comeon have some courtesy and just say ok they dont allow smoking but I dont care cause i shouldnt smoke here anyway....

its a slippery slope I know, and I used to light up in restaurants too untill i figured out that smoke really does bother some people and ruins their meals, now even if it does become legal again I will not light a cigarrette in a eating place.......bars on the other hand if ya dont like it leave...... people do NOT have to get drunk.
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Old 10-02-2009, 08:42 AM   #11
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Yah, no way they shold disallow smoking in bars. Seriously.. beer and cigs go hand in hand! As for restaurants, I'm not going to eat somewhere that I have someone lighting up next to me.. that said, the owners should be fully capable of making there own decisions based on the demographics of there customer base.
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Old 10-02-2009, 10:16 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Axgar View Post
I wont argue the point ya make about the owner should beable to make the rules but the problem is this....... people have the right to eat to, and eating is neccessary......
Not trying to get into a pissing contest with you here, Ax, but there's a point here that you are waffling on. You agree that an establishment's owner has the right to make the rules in their own establishment, but you are saying that a patron's right to eat supercedes the owner's? I would argue that the patron has a necessity to eat, but absolutely no right to eat there. they have every right to choose where they want to eat, but if the estyablishment does not meet their criteria (eg. No Smoking) then they should choose some place else. That's why I hate these laws banning smoking in eating establishments. It's just a damned if you do, damned if you don't type of legislation.

Originally Posted by AjTaliesen View Post
But rather than lobby for all nail salons to close or use only acrylic paint I've taken the novel and radical approach of simply not going to get my nails done. (probably not the only reason for this choice).
Aj? Are you a girl?
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Old 10-02-2009, 10:17 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Shylodog View Post
Aj? Are you a girl?
My guess is no, which is another one of his reasons...
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Old 10-02-2009, 11:30 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
My guess is no, which is another one of his reasons...
This. Although I've seen allot of guys, many of them straight, for whom this reason alone is not enough.
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Old 10-02-2009, 12:37 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Shylodog View Post
That's why I hate these laws banning smoking in eating establishments. It's just a damned if you do, damned if you don't type of legislation.
Speaking as a non-smoker, I find the laws banning smoking in restaurants pretty convenient. I simply hated sitting down in the non-smoking section only to have some imbecile at a table near me in the same section light up and use his dinner plate as an ashtray. Dipsticks like that would piss people off and maybe those kind of people (can't you "hear" the seething in my voice with "those kind"? LOL!) are what pushed the general population over the edge in supporting banning smoking in public places?

On the other hand, I never had a problem making wait staff move my party to another table, or force nitwits lighting up in the non-smoking section to put out their smoke. And, once I found a restaurants that allowed for smoking, but didn't partition off smoking from non-smoking into separate rooms, I simply stopped giving them my business. There were so many places who had gone non-smoking to increase business before any ban was forced on them. So it was a no brainier as to where to eat. I don't think there should be bans, since the customers are going to get what they want anyway. A business owner would be stupid to push out non-smokers if that was most of his customer base. Let the market decide.
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Old 10-02-2009, 08:45 PM   #16
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Well if the Messia gets his way noone will even come close to being able to afford to smoke......... the income taxes they promised not to give us are going to cigarrettes, booze, sugar.....blah blah blah...... to pay for all of our disease........ right after they pay for their wasted trip to secure the olympics for Chicago........... i fucking laughed like hell, LIT UP A SMOKE AT WORK and said way to go there diplomatic genius ya didnt even come close to getting what you wanted.
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Old 10-05-2009, 03:30 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by shylodog
I would argue that the patron has a necessity to eat, but absolutely no right to eat there. they have every right to choose where they want to eat, but if the estyablishment does not meet their criteria (eg. No Smoking) then they should choose some place else.
Smoking is a widespread problem. What if ALL eating places in town were smoking? Should grocery stores also be able to allow smoking if they want? Should people be forced to be a secondhand member of society because they don't smoke?
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Old 10-05-2009, 03:35 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Heretic View Post
Smoking is a widespread problem. What if ALL eating places in town were smoking? Should grocery stores also be able to allow smoking if they want? Should people be forced to be a secondhand member of society because they don't smoke?
Again, I would agrue that the right to decide should lie with the owner of the establishment, not with the government, nor any particular "class". If the town/area that the grocery store is located is predominantly non-smoking, and the owner decides he likes his profits, then so be it.

But again, that's just me.
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Old 10-05-2009, 06:47 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Heretic View Post
Smoking is a widespread problem. What if ALL eating places in town were smoking?
Then someone stands to make a lot of money by opening up a nonsmoking establishment in that town, seeing as there would be a high probability of a demand for it.
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Old 10-05-2009, 07:11 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Heretic View Post
Smoking is a widespread problem. What if ALL eating places in town were smoking? Should grocery stores also be able to allow smoking if they want? Should people be forced to be a secondhand member of society because they don't smoke?
What if people stopped using microwaves?!@? OMG, some day you will die. What excuse will your family blame for your death. I hope it is the over use of microwaves to cause brain cancer, personally. I swear to god, it is lucky the human population made it past lead in the paint.
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Old 10-05-2009, 08:45 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Drysdale View Post
Then someone stands to make a lot of money by opening up a nonsmoking establishment in that town, seeing as there would be a high probability of a demand for it.
This.

We're quick enough to denounce the greed in the world, don't shove it under the rug now just because it might allow someone somewhere to get away with enjoying something you disapprove of.

There are allot more non smokers now than there used to be (back when people thought it was good for you).

As long as you don't smoke: someone will want your money.


But at least be honest with yourself: you're not asking for a restaurant to cater to you. You're asking for ALL OF THEM to cater to you.
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Old 10-05-2009, 09:48 PM   #22
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Im confused as to why you are on Drysdales ass he is not for banishing smoking................I still smoke ONCE AGAIN and i think they should outlaw the shit in restaurtants and am glad they did in most places............ IF I enjoy fucking your wife and she enjoys me fucking her then you should let us do it whenever we want.....pool table at the bar,......... checkout counter at stores......... church, in the bathroom at the mall............. who are you to get mad at us and tell us not to do something we enjoy...........
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Old 10-06-2009, 04:24 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Axgar View Post
Im confused as to why you are on Drysdales ass he is not for banishing smoking
He's not. He's agreeing with me (THIS is his agreement) and talking to Heretic after agreeing with me, expanding on my point.
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Old 10-06-2009, 07:33 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Axgar View Post
Im confused as to why you are on Drysdales ass he is not for banishing smoking................I still smoke ONCE AGAIN and i think they should outlaw the shit in restaurtants and am glad they did in most places............ IF I enjoy fucking your wife and she enjoys me fucking her then you should let us do it whenever we want.....pool table at the bar,......... checkout counter at stores......... church, in the bathroom at the mall............. who are you to get mad at us and tell us not to do something we enjoy...........
Seriously? You equate smoking to adultry? I know it's been said before, but you, Ax, are a fucking loon.

Is it society's fault that you have no will power? No. Take responsibility for your actions. Oh wait, you are. You're just not about to do anything about it. You would rather society take care of it for you so you don't have to deal with it.

You started smoking again? Boo fucking hoo. So did I. Know what I did? I went out and bought the patch when I was ready to quit again. But the point is, I was READY to quit, not just putting on a show. And I didn't need bullshit legislation to help me. Know what else? I stopped going to the bars where I would be attacked by someone else's smoke. I know this isn't an option for you, but hey, what a concept.

Tard.

And would you PLEASE... FOR THE LOVE OF GOD... Stop fantasizing about raping and fucking everyone's wives and children? Seriously. Or else I may suspect they let Phil Garrido have a computer in lockup. This is borderline obssession on your part. Not a thread can get by without you making these types of comments. Sheesh.
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Old 10-06-2009, 12:08 PM   #25
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just because you probably fulfill my fanasies dont mean I should have to quit fantasizing asshat.

Just because you have to have the patch to quit like a pussy dont mean a thing to me.

where did I say anyone had to quit smoking?................. I should have a right to go to a place to eat and not have fat ass rude fucks like you blowing smoke around tofuck up the taste of my food.

My point about me being a smoker was that I smoke and have no problem with not smoking in a place other people are eating.

TO bad you area rude fuck and will not give the same respect to people then we woudnt need laws to stop TARDS like you from ruining other peoples meals.


P.S. you dont even believe in God so leave him out of this.
Should we drop all laws against murder? I mean hey who are we to tell people what to do...... they should beable to do what they want right?

dont tell me he smoke isnt hurting anyone asshat.
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